Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Resurrection 'F'"

[Dyno]

And because you just can't tell about someone already well-known without some flashbacks.

I count on this for Gine to make her first appearance in an animation.

[Mewzard]

I don't really get the complaints against Freeza going stronger from training. Almost every shonen to ever exist has this, and Jump is full of such series. Dragon Ball does this.

Why is it okay for the Heroes to do it, but not the Villains?

Freeza, at this point, has every reason to train. He knows he was surpassed, and that it was not a fluke. He knows his options are either to grow strong, defeat Goku and Trunks, and rule the universe, or slink away and rule whatever he can keep hold of, and hope Goku isn't told by King Kai to go punch his head off (a life of endless fear until his death).

Given those choices, training and killing your old foe seems to be the best option. He got complacent because of his power, and almost died from it. Assuming his cybernetics and his father would be enough to get revenge did get him killed. Freeza's not one to let a grudge go easily.

Also, I really like SSJ God and Golden Freeza. If you didn't expect this kind of stuff from Toriyama, then you haven't been paying attention, lol.

I seem to recall SSJ being made the way it was to reduce the inking his assistant had to do.

SSJ God fits what we know of the gods. Visually, they aren't as scary/powerful looking as you'd expect. It's the potent power/special abilities in the small package.

Golden Freeza sticks with the aesthetic that his true form went with. All of that bulking up and horror was just masking something simple and sleek...yet deadly. Plus, the gold is a nice mockery of the Super Saiyan, and Gold/Purple work for the royalty theme, given Freeza's whole running a lot of planets.

[fadeddreams5]

...even if he wasn't before (IMO, he was), Toriyama is more about simple transformations. And people that are really strong despite how unimpressive they look.

Simple? This is the man who gave us Zarbon's ugly form, Frieza's older forms, Cell's forms, Buu's forms, Cooler's 5th form, LSSJ Broly, SSJ3 Goku, the fusions, and so on.

The only subtle transformation in the past has been SSJ, and it's distinct enough to stand on its own. Change SSJ Goku's clothes, and you can easily mistake him for another character.

SSJG Goku and Golden Frieza are just palette swaps.

[Lord Beerus]

Toei showed us EVERY character in Battle of Gods before that movie's release. Everyone and every form, even Super Saiyan God Goku.

Ironically, that was one of the main complaints about BOG. They were too many characters of too little significance and BOG tried too hard to give every character under the sun a decent amount of screentime, which led to BOG having quite a bit of filler and the plot being a bit cluttered. Now they've decreased cast to have less clutter in the plot and people are complaining about certain characters being left out.

The Dragon Ball fanbase at times it's own worst enemy.

[Chuquita]

I realized, with the revamped VJump site, I honestly don't know if we'll get a new preview page at the end of this week. They seemed to have started using what I think is the magazine's preview page, only posted to their website instead of that vague 'next time' with the Toriyama drawn monster because it.

[Lord Beerus]

...even if he wasn't before (IMO, he was), Toriyama is more about simple transformations. And people that are really strong despite how unimpressive they look.

Simple? This is the man who gave us Zarbon's ugly form, Freeza's older forms, Cell's forms, Buu's forms, Cooler's 5th form, LSSJ Broly, SSJ3 Goku, the fusions, and so on.

The only subtle transformation in the past has been SSJ, and it's distinct enough to stand on its own. Change SSJ Goku's clothes, and you can easily mistake him for another character.

SSJG Goku and Golden Freeza are just palette swaps.

Do you think Ultimate Gohan looks badass? Because if so, you have a collect call from Mr Black Kettle and his associate Pot.

[dbzfan7]

I don't really get the complaints against Freeza going stronger from training. Almost every shonen to ever exist has this, and Jump is full of such series. Dragon Ball does this.

Why is it okay for the Heroes to do it, but not the Villains?

Freeza, at this point, has every reason to train. He knows he was surpassed, and that it was not a fluke. He knows his options are either to grow strong, defeat Goku and Trunks, and rule the universe, or slink away and rule whatever he can keep hold of, and hope Goku isn't told by King Kai to go punch his head off (a life of endless fear until his death).

Given those choices, training and killing your old foe seems to be the best option. He got complacent because of his power, and almost died from it. Assuming his cybernetics and his father would be enough to get revenge did get him killed. Freeza's not one to let a grudge go easily.

Also, I really like SSJ God and Golden Freeza. If you didn't expect this kind of stuff from Toriyama, then you haven't been paying attention, lol.

I seem to recall SSJ being made the way it was to reduce the inking his assistant had to do.

SSJ God fits what we know of the gods. Visually, they aren't as scary/powerful looking as you'd expect. It's the potent power/special abilities in the small package.

Golden Freeza sticks with the aesthetic that his true form went with. All of that bulking up and horror was just masking something simple and sleek...yet deadly. Plus, the gold is a nice mockery of the Super Saiyan, and Gold/Purple work for the royalty theme, given Freeza's whole running a lot of planets.

People have stated their cases and numerous reasons. In fact when you ask these questions you ask to derail the topic for arguments that have gone on for a long time. People are tired of both sides who support and are against Freeza's gains. I'm against, but people don't want this thread to talk about that. So if you want to get more answers, I suggest going to the power levels thread. We have also mentioned how it affects Freeza's character too, plus how in hindsight it makes all villains stupid like Cell who has Freeza's Cells, and a bunch of other fighters, netting him more potential than Freeza. Boo who is so much of a prodigy he can copy techniques by seeing them once.

Going off Toriyama's designs, Toriyama's new characters are the one's he puts effort into designing. I love Beerus, Whis, Jaco, etc. He has already done designs with Freeza that some would say do a better job at showing off transformations. This is all opinion though. Personally I think Toriyama's designs work best when he shocks me with something I'd never expect. No one expected what True Form Freeza looks like. Golden though...is a little more expected in the looks. Mainly cause it's not that much different from true form, and we have tons of people who've already drawn Golden, red, blue, green Freeza, etc.

Do you think Ultimate Gohan looks badass? Because if so, you have a collect call from Mr Black Kettle and his associate Pot.

That's a black and white way of looking at it. Ultimate Gohan is not a form. It's literally billed as the extreme version of Guru's power up. Personally people would have less problems if they just called Super Saiyan God something else. It mooches off the Super Saiyan line up rather than being called it's own thing, which it should be. It's even less deserving to be a Super Saiyan form, than the people who suggest Super Saiyan 4 should be called something else. SSJ4 has more connections to saiyans...than God.

[Kakarot9001]

1. Freeza's method of attaining his new power is stupid beyond belief. It's true that people were skeptical about Freeza's return because they figured he was too weak to be a threat anymore. This training thing confirmed their fears. Apparently, now any villain can come back, train, and become stronger than a SSJ3 or god.

2. Inconsistency in power levels. Piccolo is seen getting punched in the face by a mook, Gohan is seen knocked out cold, and yet, Master Roshi is somehow able to fend off against most of these guys? To be fair, the devil mook might be a fusion or just someone who got a lucky punch in on Piccolo. Gohan may be knocked out by Freeza himself. And Master Roshi...may have trained...

3. Gohan is a SSJ, and again, gets knocked out cold.

4. The SSJG thing introduced in the previous movie is ruining the franchise. Now we have Ultimate Goku and Vegeta, and we are no longer seeing SSJs?

5. No confirmation of Goten, Buu, or Trunks in a movie the latter's future self is directly mentioned.

6. Golden Freeza is a lazy and ugly transformation that is only recently "growing on" people because it was not made by a fan.

1, 3, and 4 are the only things that have really disappointed me so far...

Where do I sign?

[Big Momma]

...even if he wasn't before (IMO, he was), Toriyama is more about simple transformations. And people that are really strong despite how unimpressive they look.

Simple? This is the man who gave us Zarbon's ugly form, Freeza's older forms, Cell's forms, Buu's forms, Cooler's 5th form, LSSJ Broly, SSJ3 Goku, the fusions, and so on.

The only subtle transformation in the past has been SSJ, and it's distinct enough to stand on its own. Change SSJ Goku's clothes, and you can easily mistake him for another character.

SSJG Goku and Golden Freeza are just palette swaps.

Zarbon's ugly form is beefed up and has an uglier face. And, aside from Cell's face, there's not too much difference between the three forms, IMO, besides the color scheme.

From the Fat Buu, to Evil Buu, to Super Buu, I'll give you those. But going from Super Buu to Kid Buu isn't a big stretch. And if you count his absorptions of the Z Senshi as forms, those are literally just costume changes.

As for LSSJ, it's not even a complex form. Just a huge Super Saiyan with muscles (And I didn't even know Toriyama did that design). For SSJ3, I wouldn't say that's much of a change, either. He loses his eyebrows and his hair grows longer.

Fusions are a great concept, but they're not extreme character designs, ether. Gogeta, Gotenks, Vegetto, they all just take physical cues from the faces/hair of the people who fused. Heck, we don't know what a base Gogeta looks like, but they all have similar hair. They aren't complex designs.

I don't see most of these as incredibly drastic changes or designs. And, sure, he's done complex designs before. That doesn't mean he's lazy when he doesn't something that isn't drastic and is simple. If you don't like the simplicity, that's cool (I've never said that I'm particularly fond of Golden Freeza, myself), but, and this may be a personal thing, I can't stand when people just outright call him lazy for it. That's bullshit.

Y'know what? Maybe it is lazy. Maybe he'll come out and say "I just didn't feel like doing anything complex. I didn't want to put forth the effort for that, hahaha" In which case, sure, I'll concede to that. But people have said multiple times in this very thread what the reasoning behind such a simple change could be.

TL;DR because I went on a dumb rant, sorry - If you don't like the form, whatever. I'm not a big fan of it either. But don't call the man "lazy" for it.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

What if... what if the reason we haven't seen Goten & Trunks yet is because they don't have a big role in the movie, and that's because Freeza kills them before the main battle? They are mini-versions of Goku & Future Trunks after all (even if they have aged now), and Freeza wants revenge on them...

[fadeddreams5]

I don't see most of these as incredibly drastic changes or designs. And, sure, he's done complex designs before. That doesn't mean he's lazy when he doesn't something that isn't drastic and is simple. If you don't like the simplicity, that's cool (I've never said that I'm particularly fond of Golden Freeza, myself), but, and this may be a personal thing, I can't stand when people just outright call him lazy for it. That's bullshit.

Y'know what? Maybe it is lazy. Maybe he'll come out and say "I just didn't feel like doing anything complex. I didn't want to put forth the effort for that, hahaha" In which case, sure, I'll concede to that. But people have said multiple times in this very thread what the reasoning behind such a simple change could be.

TL;DR because I went on a dumb rant, sorry - If you don't like the form, whatever. I'm not a big fan of it either. But don't call the man "lazy" for it.

I'm not calling Toriyama, the man, lazy. I'm calling the new Frieza and SSJG designs lazy because I know what he's capable of creating. And this is not on par with it. No disrespect to the man, but this is how I see it.

There's a clear distinction between the transformations I stated before and palette swaps. Of course he's going to claim he did it for such and such reasons.

[FlpShimizu]

What if... what if the reason we haven't seen Goten & Trunks yet is because they don't have a big role in the movie, and that's because Freeza kills them before the main battle? They are mini-versions of Goku & Future Trunks after all (even if they have aged now), and Freeza wants revenge on them...

Seeing how Vegeta reacted when Beerus punched Bulma I really doubt he would be as calm as he looks in the trailer. Freeza killing his son would at the very least make him uncorfortable for the entire movie.

[fadeddreams5]

What if... what if the reason we haven't seen Goten & Trunks yet is because they don't have a big role in the movie, and that's because Freeza kills them before the main battle? They are mini-versions of Goku & Future Trunks after all (even if they have aged now), and Freeza wants revenge on them...

That or the movie does end in a cliffhanger, and they happen to be the stars of the next movie. >.>

[Big Momma]

I'm not calling Toriyama, the man, lazy. I'm calling the new Freeza and SSJG designs lazy because I know what he's capable of creating. And this is not on par with it. No disrespect to the man, but this is how I see it.

There's a clear distinction between the transformations I stated before and palette swaps. Of course he's going to claim he did it for such and such reasons.

Fair enough, I suppose. I still disagree with them being lazy as them being simple is the entire point. It's not "such and such" reason, it's not wanting to create something that would be "typical".

[Dyno]

I would say those horrible fans' designs are "typical".

[Big Momma]

I would say those horrible fans' designs are "typical".

I would say it's something that's just the standard "Larger muscles, horns/spikes, shoulder pads, etc."

I'm not saying that "typical" is bad, per se...just that he purposefully was going against that when he designed SSJG (And, as it seems, GF).

[Dyno]

Horns/spikes are typical but they still would make a cool difference. Since both does not make up a drastic change and yet they are a cool detail.

Or just some lines.

[ParkerAL]

4. The SSJG thing introduced in the previous movie is ruining the franchise. Now we have Ultimate Goku and Vegeta, and we are no longer seeing SSJs?

Personally, I was getting a little tired of the constant parade of golden hair in the series. A break from that visual motif is in order, I'd say.

[TheGmGoken]

4. The SSJG thing introduced in the previous movie is ruining the franchise. Now we have Ultimate Goku and Vegeta, and we are no longer seeing SSJs?

Personally, I was getting a little tired of the constant parade of golden hair in the series. A break from that visual motif is in order, I'd say.

So....to make sure we get less Golden hair. We take someone's ability or full power that doesn't require him to transform at all and make him transform to.SSJ.. just so Vegeta and Goku can look special.

[Chuquita]

I like base forms because I feel they always had more variety in looks than the basic ssj, but it's also a nostalgia thing with me because I got into the series during the early Namek stuff, so my first exposure to Gokû, Vegeta, Gohan, etc was their base forms.