Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Resurrection 'F'"

[Lord Beerus]

4. The SSJG thing introduced in the previous movie is ruining the franchise. Now we have Ultimate Goku and Vegeta, and we are no longer seeing SSJs?

Personally, I was getting a little tired of the constant parade of golden hair in the series. A break from that visual motif is in order, I'd say.

I'm more than welcome to less gold hair. It's kind of become an emotional crutch to some fans of the series. Dragon Ball can still thrive without a constant barrage golden hair.

[Dbzfan94]

I like base forms because I feel they always had more variety in looks than the basic ssj, but it's also a nostalgia thing with me because I got into the series during the early Namek stuff, so my first exposure to Gokû, Vegeta, Gohan, etc was their base forms.

I got into the series in the Buu saga where it was, to quote Vegeta, "a Super Saiyan bargain sale" with SSJ2 and SSJ3 as great bonuses. So I guess that's why I'm upset about Goku/Vegeta wont turn SSJ/SSJ2/SSJ3 anymore

[bleed0range]

I don't really get the complaints against Freeza going stronger from training. Almost every shonen to ever exist has this, and Jump is full of such series. Dragon Ball does this.

Why is it okay for the Heroes to do it, but not the Villains?

Freeza, at this point, has every reason to train. He knows he was surpassed, and that it was not a fluke. He knows his options are either to grow strong, defeat Goku and Trunks, and rule the universe, or slink away and rule whatever he can keep hold of, and hope Goku isn't told by King Kai to go punch his head off (a life of endless fear until his death).

Given those choices, training and killing your old foe seems to be the best option. He got complacent because of his power, and almost died from it. Assuming his cybernetics and his father would be enough to get revenge did get him killed. Freeza's not one to let a grudge go easily.

Also, I really like SSJ God and Golden Freeza. If you didn't expect this kind of stuff from Toriyama, then you haven't been paying attention, lol.

I seem to recall SSJ being made the way it was to reduce the inking his assistant had to do.

SSJ God fits what we know of the gods. Visually, they aren't as scary/powerful looking as you'd expect. It's the potent power/special abilities in the small package.

Golden Freeza sticks with the aesthetic that his true form went with. All of that bulking up and horror was just masking something simple and sleek...yet deadly. Plus, the gold is a nice mockery of the Super Saiyan, and Gold/Purple work for the royalty theme, given Freeza's whole running a lot of planets.

I actually agree. Why can't a villain be the one to gain an upper hand on the heroes through training. Goku has been able to gain ridiculous amounts of strength for every foe ridiculously outclassing him at every turn. Even when the difference was huge like Freeza the first time around. It's actually kind of cool to see a villain able to do the same thing for once.

...even if he wasn't before (IMO, he was), Toriyama is more about simple transformations. And people that are really strong despite how unimpressive they look.

Simple? This is the man who gave us Zarbon's ugly form, Freeza's older forms, Cell's forms, Buu's forms, Cooler's 5th form, LSSJ Broly, SSJ3 Goku, the fusions, and so on.

The only subtle transformation in the past has been SSJ, and it's distinct enough to stand on its own. Change SSJ Goku's clothes, and you can easily mistake him for another character.

SSJG Goku and Golden Freeza are just palette swaps.

This is not true. HIs face is completely different in design, brow/eyes... etc. I believe it was people's high expectations that were let down, whether they realized they had them or not... that are making people upset. Once I got over that initial shock I realized that it's not that weird. If this had existed already in Dragon Ball and I knew it was coming (as many things in DB/DBZ have been as I got into the series)... I wouldn't have felt so shocked or upset or whatever.

[SaiyanZ]

I prefer black hair to gold hair so I'm all for it lol. Just don't do away completely with the forms (which I think is going to happen, if it already hasn't for all of them except regular SSJ)

[SSJGFrieza]

SSJG Goku and Golden Freeza are just palette swaps.

So is SSJ
SSJ2 is SSJ1 with spikier hair
SSJ3 is basically SSJ Raditz with no eyebrows

The whole "palette swap" argument is flawed

[Tennessaiyan]

I got into the series at the Namek saga, so I guess that's why I too prefer base forms over Super. Also I just think normal hair looks better anyways ^^;

[bleed0range]

SSJG Goku and Golden Freeza are just palette swaps.

So is SSJ
SSJ2 is SSJ1 with spikier hair
SSJ3 is basically SSJ Raditz with no eyebrows

The whole "palette swap" argument is flawed

Yeah I'm getting tired of that argument. People just expected too much or just don't like the design... period. It's not because it's a "palette swap." Freeza's body itself didn't change much but his face changed a lot. It doesn't really look like Freeza in a lot of those shots now, not the Freeza we knew. So that's a pretty different design.

A transformation is not an entirely new character, it's just the same character transforming into a new state. What exactly did fans want his form to look like anyway? Now that I think about it, it could never have been THAT different because it has to still be Freeza.

SSJ2 is the laziest transformation in the series... but it was SO COOL when it happened with Gohan. Very little changes in appearance, it's the IDEA behind the transformation and how it was achieved in the story that makes it so cool.

[mikey4111]

I don't really get the complaints against Freeza going stronger from training. Almost every shonen to ever exist has this, and Jump is full of such series. Dragon Ball does this.

Why is it okay for the Heroes to do it, but not the Villains?

Freeza, at this point, has every reason to train. He knows he was surpassed, and that it was not a fluke. He knows his options are either to grow strong, defeat Goku and Trunks, and rule the universe, or slink away and rule whatever he can keep hold of, and hope Goku isn't told by King Kai to go punch his head off (a life of endless fear until his death).

Given those choices, training and killing your old foe seems to be the best option. He got complacent because of his power, and almost died from it. Assuming his cybernetics and his father would be enough to get revenge did get him killed. Freeza's not one to let a grudge go easily.

Also, I really like SSJ God and Golden Freeza. If you didn't expect this kind of stuff from Toriyama, then you haven't been paying attention, lol.

I seem to recall SSJ being made the way it was to reduce the inking his assistant had to do.

SSJ God fits what we know of the gods. Visually, they aren't as scary/powerful looking as you'd expect. It's the potent power/special abilities in the small package.

Golden Freeza sticks with the aesthetic that his true form went with. All of that bulking up and horror was just masking something simple and sleek...yet deadly. Plus, the gold is a nice mockery of the Super Saiyan, and Gold/Purple work for the royalty theme, given Freeza's whole running a lot of planets.

No one cares that Frieza trained and got stronger. It's the fact he trained for FOUR MONTHS and is already stronger then SSJ God.

[mikey4111]

I don't get how Piccolo can get knocked out by any of Frieza's men. Piccolo is far stronger than Frieza when he was first revived and fixed. That means that one of Frieza's henchmen was even stronger then Frieza himself which doesn't make sense cause the only one that even came nearly close was Captain Ginyu.

[Dyno]

It's the fact he trained for FOUR MONTHS and is already stronger then SSJ God.

As his new form or rather, just a golden fourth form, if this idea were originally by fans, many would complain a lot. But it is not the case.

[bleed0range]

No one cares that Freeza trained and got stronger. It's the fact he trained for FOUR MONTHS and is already stronger then SSJ God.

Yeah but how much time passed between when Goku left for Namek and when he fought Freeza? How much stronger did he get? It was a ridiculous level of strength gained. Freeza's power level at 100% pure final form was on a level that no one could touch and yet Goku miraculously was able to do so in a short amount of time.

According to the DB timeline... Goku is hospitalized from his fight with Vegeta (which was on Nov. 3rd), November 4th of Age 762. Goku leaves for Namek on December 18 of Age 762 and completes his training under 100x gravity by December 23rd. Goku transforms into a SSJ on December 24th. That means in a span of just over a month Goku went from his power level fighting the saiyans to Freeza's level and beyond. The difference in their power between when he left and when he defeated Freeza was about as astronomical as this.

To put things in perspective. Radditz arrived only one year before that when everyone's power levels were below 1000. It's not that hard to believe.

The perceived strength of SSJ3 Goku vs. Beerus is unknown. Goku could have been completely defeated by a flick of Freeza's finger if Freeza had run into him when Radditz did. Freeza was like a million times stronger. Goku was able to close-in on that in about a year. Most of that in just about a month.

[TripleRach]

Has any other dragon ball thing released in recent times been filled with as much negativity before it was even out as this film? It's quite interesting to note the change from when yo! Son Goku and friends return was announced way back then to people complaining so much about actually getting more new dragon ball. ... There was a time when it seemed that would never happen at all and I miss the positivity and excitement we all used to have. Feels like we almost take it for granted now. Especially considering Toriyama had been heavily involved in the creation of these things.

Well, Evolution was certainly controversial before its release. There was plenty of negativity and arguing back then.

But the more new content we get, the less special and fresh it will feel. It's not surprising the optimism would start to die down. Mixed reception for Battle of Gods and Minus is probably making people more skeptical too.

[Kakarot9001]

I hate the main Saiyans fighting in their base form, I like Super Saiyans transformations and the Super Saiyan itself is the essence of the series, that's why one of the most memorable episodes is when Goku transforms into a Super Saiyan for the first time.

Toriyama trying to make us forget these wonderful transformations is just LAME

[SSJGFrieza]

I hope some pics from the 2nd chapter of the manga tie in leak soon. Would be nice to discuss something different.

[Abel Taylor]

I hope some pics from the 2nd chapter of the manga tie in leak soon. Would be nice to discuss something different.

Be prepared for overwhelming negativity. That said, it'll be out in 8 days, so it shouldn't be long. I am pumped for it too.

[MrKaytos]

Look at this picture from Fukkatsu no F... I love that spaceship

Spoiler:

So it seems that Jaco brings his spaceship with him ^^ From Dragon Ball Dream Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Dragon-B ... 0244318953

[fadeddreams5]

So is SSJ
SSJ2 is SSJ1 with spikier hair
SSJ3 is basically SSJ Raditz with no eyebrows

The whole "palette swap" argument is flawed

Besides Vegeta and Adult Gohan, SSJ is not a palette swap.

SSJ2 Kid Gohan looks very different. The rest of the SSJ2s have only subtle changes, but this form is just an extension of the SSJ form anyways.

SSJ3 looks nothing like Raditz, besides having long hair.

SSJG is quite literally base Goku with red eyes and hair. They hyped it up and gave it the name Super Saiyan God, and yet... it's Base Goku.

Maybe I'm going over board calling Golden Frieza a palette swap, but someone posted a picture of him here with all the colors removed. It was essentially Frieza's regular form.

is the laziest transformation in the series... but it was SO COOL when it happened with Gohan. Very little changes in appearance, it's the IDEA behind the transformation and how it was achieved in the story that makes it so cool.

There were drastic changes with Kid Gohan's SSJ2 appearance. He looked like a small adult. >.>

This is not true. HIs face is completely different in design, brow/eyes... etc. I believe it was people's high expectations that were let down, whether they realized they had them or not... that are making people upset. Once I got over that initial shock I realized that it's not that weird. If this had existed already in Dragon Ball and I knew it was coming (as many things in DB/DBZ have been as I got into the series)... I wouldn't have felt so shocked or upset or whatever.

You're right. I exaggerated calling him a palette swap. Anyways, he looks EXACTLY how I expected he would. I knew Frieza's transformation would be very simple. I mean, I find it really ugly and get slightly annoyed when I see people writing it's "grown on them" since I know they would never accept this form if a fan made it, but it doesn't bother me. I listed things I notice a lot of people are upset over, but only the three things I mentioned in the bottom bother me. Golden Frieza is not one of them.

[Dyno]

Look at this picture from Fukkatsu no F... I love that spaceship

Spoiler:

So it seems that Jaco brings his spaceship with him ^^ From Dragon Ball Dream Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Dragon-B ... 0244318953

May Jaco and Bulma have an amazing dialogue!

[Dyno]

Julian retweeted this. Wonder what is written but it looks very interesting.

[Lord Beerus]

Yeah but how much time passed between when Goku left for Namek and when he fought Freeza? How much stronger did he get? It was a ridiculous level of strength gained. Freeza's power level at 100% pure final form was on a level that no one could touch and yet Goku miraculously was able to do so in a short amount of time.

According to the DB timeline... Goku is hospitalized from his fight with Vegeta (which was on Nov. 3rd), November 4th of Age 762. Goku leaves for Namek on December 18 of Age 762 and completes his training under 100x gravity by December 23rd. Goku transforms into a SSJ on December 24th. That means in a span of just over a month Goku went from his power level fighting the saiyans to Freeza's level and beyond. The difference in their power between when he left and when he defeated Freeza was about as astronomical as this.

To put things in perspective. Radditz arrived only one year before that when everyone's power levels were below 1000. It's not that hard to believe.

The perceived strength of SSJ3 Goku vs. Beerus is unknown. Goku could have been completely defeated by a flick of Freeza's finger if Freeza had run into him when Radditz did. Freeza was like a million times stronger. Goku was able to close-in on that in about a year. Most of that in just about a month.

All of this.

I honestly think most fans seem to have forgotten the concept that X amount of training in certain circumstances can produce X amount of results. I mean it seem as though that the idea of training really hard to become incredibly strong has now become an alien concept to fans because somebody other than the Saiyans or Nameks have actually benefited greatly from it.