The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[In Brightest Day]

A new set:

- Saiyan arc Chaozu vs. Beginning of Z Son Goku and Piccolo.
- SSJ3 Son Goku vs. South Kaioshin.
- King Cold vs. Dr. Gero.
- Bardocks crew (Toma, Selypa, Totepo, Pambukin) vs. 3 Warrior Namekians and Saiyan arc Piccolo.

[RandomGuy96]

A new set:

- Saiyan arc Chaozu vs. Beginning of Z Son Goku and Piccolo.
- SSJ3 Son Goku vs. South Kaioshin.
- King Cold vs. Dr. Gero.
- Bardocks crew (Toma, Selypa, Totepo, Pambukin) vs. 3 Warrior Namekians and Saiyan arc Piccolo.

Chaozu is 610. Goku and Piccolo are 416 and 408. They have no chance even if he doesn't use psychic powers.

Dai Kaioshin + South Kaioshin = Mr. Buu < SS3 Goku.

Hmmm... I'll say Gero. I think they're roughly equal, but Gero has energy absorption, which Cold wouldn't know about until it's too late.

There's no way to tell.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

..SSJ Gotenks [pre] vs. Majin Vegeta...

....

[Saiga]

Gotenks loses. I think he was comparable prior to the RoSaT training and surpassed him, going off Daizenshuu 7. Add that's he's an idiot and presumably doesn't have any of his good moves yet, he couldn't beat Vegeta.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Spoiler:

Chapter: 472 (DBZ 278), P9.4

Context: after explaining that Fusion lasts 30 minutes

Goku: “With these two, if they just manage to perform Fusion successfully, I think they’ll definitely be able to defeat him within

30 minutes. Fusion is just that extreme.”

-------------------

Chapter: 477 (DBZ 283), P11.8

Context: Chi-Chi thinks Goten will get killed by Boo

Goku: “Don’t worry. If he perfects the technique he’s trying now, he definitely ain’t gonna lose.”

-------------------

Chapter: 476 (DBZ 282), P9.3

Piccolo: "If that bastard felt like it, he could wipe out the entire Earth, up here included, in the blink of an eye...!"

Goku: "It's alright, I don't think he'll take out the Earth. After all, I told him that in 2 days, someone stronger than me would fight him, and he seemed happy..."

-------------------

Chapter: 482 (DBZ 288), P7.2-3

Context: after Super Saiyan Gotenks forms for the first time

Piccolo: “…Yeah…Your ki really is absolutely incredible, but how about your movement?...Show me a little”

Gotenks: “Is that alright? If I show you here, the house might break. I’ll do it on the ground.”

[Saiga]

I've read all of that. I'm not one of the people who believe Gotenks is stronger than Fat Boo or Goku based on some statements that were never proven or even referenced later.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

That's the thing. There's no fights to display Gotenks' power, so you can only take statements at face value. No one contradicted Goku's statement. And Piccolo never once doubted Gotenks' strenght. And Piccolo only waited until Super Boo formed to send Gotenks in the rosat.

tl;dr

Base Gotenks - Piccolo: "No! You're not strong enough!"
SSJ Gotenks - Piccolo: "No! You don't have enough time!"

[Angelus]

1st form Cell vs SS Goten and SS Trunks

This would depend on how powerful you think the kids were. I personally think that the kids aren't near any of the Cell Games SSJs.

SSJ Goten [post-rosat] vs. Cell Games 2nd grade SSJ Vegeta

Vegeta due to experience and technique.

Start of series Goku vs Videl and Satan (after Gohan's training, no using ki though)

Goku easily. Goku was way above average martial artists even in the beginning of DB.

Piccolo as a giant vs. Nappa

Same result except Nappa now has a bigger target to hit.

A new set:

- Saiyan arc Chaozu vs. Beginning of Z Son Goku and Piccolo.
- SSJ3 Son Goku vs. South Kaioshin.
- King Cold vs. Dr. Gero.
- Bardocks crew (Toma, Selypa, Totepo, Pambukin) vs. 3 Warrior Namekians and Saiyan arc Piccolo.

Piccolo and Goku win. This dou killed a more powerful foe, Raditz, remember?

Going by filler, I say South Kaioshin. Kid Buu realized that he was just too powerful to beat and decided to absorb him. Kid Buu never planned on doing that with Goku. But that's because.. that was filler. Manga-wise, Goku. Because Goku could have beaten Kid Buu if Goku was at full power while being SSJ3.

I say Dr. Gero due to King Cold being possibly super arrogant and cocky during this fight that he would somehow let his guard down... enough time for Gero to absorb all his energy.

Going by DBZ wiki's power levels, Bardock's crew are at Nappa's level, except for Fasha. The Namekians get slaughtered unless Piccolo kills Fasha early on and then the other Namekians do full nelson headlocks on each of Bardock's crew and Piccolo charges up some Special Beam Cannons to pierce them through like he did with Raditz.

[In Brightest Day]

Piccolo and Goku win. This dou killed a more powerful foe, Raditz.

A fluke victory made possible through Raditz' incompetence and Gohan's timely interference.

[Saiga]

That's the thing. There's no fights to display Gotenks' power, so you can only take statements at face value. No one contradicted Goku's statement. And Piccolo never once doubted Gotenks' strenght. And Piccolo only waited until Super Boo formed to send Gotenks in the rosat.

tl;dr

Base Gotenks - Piccolo: "No! You're not strong enough!"
SSJ Gotenks - Piccolo: "No! You don't have enough time!"

No, I don't have to take Goku's statement at face value. He's talking about something that doesn't even exist.

Daizenshuu 7 gives another way to look it at, and I use that.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

That's ridiculous. There's a reason Toriyama writes in all of those statements and never has them disproven. Also, if you actually follow SSJ Gotenks pre < Majin Vegeta you're pretty much calling Goku a lying asshole and Piccolo a homocidal asshole

[Hugo Boss]

You can argue with Piccolo, but Goku is likely to take that kind of gamble. He does that a lot in the series and come up with something miraculous to solve his mess. Also given Piccolo's reaction to SS Gotenks' show, there was no assurement that Gotenks would accomplish the task and he was unusually sure that Gotenks couldn't take Evil Boo before the training in the RoSaT.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

The gamble was the kids learning fusion in 2 days.

Goku didn't know he was coming back either, it was literally all up to Gotenks.

I seriously doubt Goku would literally risk the earth, potentially universe, and his 7 year old sons life if he wasn't sure fusion was enough.

Gotenks was stated multiple times to be stronger than Fat Boo and even Goku, it's never contradicted , yet people throw all of that away for a vague guidebook entry ?

[Lord Beerus]

A new set:

- Saiyan arc Chaozu vs. Beginning of Z Son Goku and Piccolo.
- SSJ3 Son Goku vs. South Kaioshin.
- King Cold vs. Dr. Gero.
- Bardocks crew (Toma, Selypa, Totepo, Pambukin) vs. 3 Warrior Namekians and Saiyan arc Piccolo.

- Chaozu. No contest
- SSJ3 Goku stomps
- Dr Gero via energy absorption
- Uhh... No idea.

[Lord Beerus]

SSJ Gotenks [pre] vs. Majin Vegeta

SSJ Gotenks dominates and destroys Majin Vegeta.

[Hugo Boss]

The gamble was the kids learning fusion in 2 days.

Goku didn't know he was coming back either, it was literally all up to Gotenks.

I seriously doubt Goku would literally risk the earth, potentially universe, and his 7 year old sons life if he wasn't sure fusion was enough.

Gotenks was stated multiple times to be stronger than Fat Boo and even Goku, it's never contradicted , yet people throw all of that away for a vague guidebook entry ?

I'm not sure if you are familiar with Goku's character, you are picturing Goku as he actually care about cautiousness at all. It was pretty much Goku's and Vegeta's obligation to erase Boo from existance, but the plot required the next generation to clean their mess. I can see Goku taking the risk and believing in his son, but still this is no direct statement to prove anything yet. From narrative perspective, SS3 Gotenks could be the ultimate weapon Goku was waiting for, even though he wasn't factoring SS3 or Evil Boo.

And Gotenks was never stated to be stronger than Vegeta prior the training in the RoSaT, so there is nothing to be even contradicted. He only has vague implications about having a huge power and speed and one direct statement from Piccolo about him not being capable of beating Evil Boo.

[Angelus]

Piccolo and Goku win. This dou killed a more powerful foe, Raditz.

A fluke victory made possible through Raditz' incompetence and Gohan's timely interference.

Yes, but if Goku can pull off a full nelson headlock on Raditz, then he would also be able to do the same with Chiaotzu. Piccolo charges up a Special Beam Cannon and..

[Kamiccolo9]

Piccolo and Goku win. This dou killed a more powerful foe, Raditz.

A fluke victory made possible through Raditz' incompetence and Gohan's timely interference.

Yes, but if Goku can pull off a full nelson headlock on Raditz, then he would also be able to do the same with Chiaotzu. Piccolo charges up a Special Beam Cannon and..

And Chiaotzu kills them with his mind. Because he's psychic.

And how is Goku going to get a full nelson on a guy who's that small, that Chiaotzu can't just slide out of? And he could only hold on to Raditz because he was weakened anyway.

[Angelus]

How could Chiaotzu kill them with his mind? This is Chiaotzu not a Professor Xavier or Jean Grey that can fire finger beams. XD

The best psychic stuff Chiaotzu could pull off is give either Goku or Piccolo a stomach ache and temporary, few seconds, paralysis. This is what he did to Goku in the 22nd WMAT. But if Chiaotzu does that, he would be left off guard since he can only paralyze one person. There's one trick up the dou's sleeve anyways... number riddles to distract Chiaotzu.

As for that full nelson thing because Chiaotzu is smaller... Goku could just cross his forearms behind Chiaotzu head, to make up for the size difference. There's many ways to improvise a submission hold like that to still make it effective. Goku should be able to figure that out, with his level in martial arts.

[Kamiccolo9]

How could Chiaotzu kill them with his mind? This is Chiaotzu not a Professor Xavier or Jean Grey that can fire finger beams. XD

The best psychic stuff Chiaotzu could pull off is give either Goku or Piccolo a stomach ache and temporary, few seconds, paralysis. This is what he did to Goku in the 22nd WMAT. But if Chiaotzu does that, he would be left off guard since he can only paralyze one person. There's one trick up the dou's sleeve anyways... number riddles to distract Chiaotzu.

As for that full nelson thing because Chiaotzu is smaller... Goku could just cross his forearms behind Chiaotzu head, to make up for the size difference. There's many ways to improvise a submission hold like that to still make it effective. Goku should be able to figure that out, with his level in martial arts.

Reread the 22nd Budokai, specifically the part where the Crane Hermit is about to have Chiaotzu kill both Goku and Tenshinhan before Roshi blasts him.
Chiaotzu could fully paralyze people stronger than him. What do you think he could do to people who were barely 2/3 his strength?

And what's stopping Chiaotzu from simply breaking the hold?