"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Noah]

Hopefully the next chapter will be the finale of this arc and the next one we may get more information about the Universe Survival arc.

[Boo Machine]

I ca totally see this arc going on for 2 more chapters, with the appearance of Zeno being the cliff hanger for the next chapter.

Merged Zamasu and Goku still have to fight long enough for the fusion to wear. Then being in a hopeless enough situation to call Zeno.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

I ca totally see this arc going on for 2 more chapters, with the appearance of Zeno being the cliff hanger for the next chapter.

Merged Zamasu and Goku still have to fight long enough for the fusion to wear. Then being in a hopeless enough situation to call Zeno.

It's pretty easy to manipulate the passage of time in a comic book. 20 minutes could be portrayed in just a few pages if Toyotaro wanted to go that route. I'm also leaning towards a July ending, though.

[LightBing]

I dare to say the bulk of SSJB Goku vs Absolute Zamasu is done. Goku's already having trouble keeping the aura in and Zamasu just recovered from the beat-down and is angrier than ever.

I'm still very curious on how this arc will close out and the transition into the next. I need to know where Future Trunks ends up.

[Grimlock]

Holy crap if Future Trunks saga ends one year after its beginning. It needs to end now!

[batistabus]

Why didn't Toei follow in Toriyama's steps then and give Kid Trunks blue hair In the Super?

Kid Trunks isn't the problem, they should have given Future Trunks the same hair color as Kid Trunks, to be consistent with how they've been for the entire DBZ.

My first guess was that they changed Future Trunks' color to avoid confusion with kid Trunks, maybe because they were already thinking to expand the story after the EoZ. That way if the two Trunks ever meet again, the audience would be able to tell the difference. Don't know what they'd do with the other Trunks though.

The point is that adult Trunks and kid Trunks are not supposed to have different-colored hair, just like Trunks and Bluma are not supposed to have different-colored hair.

The color discrepancy for Super isn't really different from what happened in the original Dragon Ball and Z animes. When Toriyama first started coloring Bulma, she looked like this:
[spoiler][/spoiler]
By the time Trunks came along, he was using purple more often. So when he drew/colored this:
[spoiler][/spoiler]
Toei went with it.

[Robo4900]

The color discrepancy for Super isn't really different from what happened in the original Dragon Ball and Z animes. When Toriyama first started coloring Bulma, she looked like this:
[snip]
By the time Trunks came along, he was using purple more often. So when he drew/colored this:
[snip]
Toei went with it.

More accurately, for the first chapter, and the first few pages of the second chapter of the Dragon Ball manga, Toriyama gave Bulma blue hair. The rest of the second chapter was spent purely in black and white, and when the third chapter came around, Toriyama either forgot or changed his mind about Bulma's hair, and chose purple. The purple colour stuck for the manga, but Toei went with blue for the anime. A similar thing happened with Goku's gi, actually -- it was purple in the first two chapters, but suddenly changed to orange in the third chapter.

[spoiler]Chapter 1:


Chapter 3:
[/spoiler]

Later on, when Trunks shows up, Toriyama gave Trunks the same hair colour as Bulma -- purple. Toei followed this by making Trunks's anime hair purple, which was really a mistake on their part; they really should have either made Bulma's hair purple from the beginning, or stuck with it and made Trunks's hair blue from the beginning.

Anyway, when Super came around, I guess they decided to suddenly fix this for no particular reason, with no real explanation.

[batistabus]

for the first chapter, and the first few pages of the second chapter of the Dragon Ball manga, Toriyama gave Bulma blue hair. The rest of the second chapter was spent purely in black and white, and when the third chapter came around, Toriyama either forgot or changed his mind about Bulma's hair, and chose purple. The purple colour stuck for the manga, but Toei went with blue for the anime. A similar thing happened with Goku's gi, actually -- it was purple in the first two chapters, but suddenly changed to orange in the third chapter.

Thanks for the specific details.

[TAF108]

So it'd be like the GT Goku thing then? Toriyama colored Goku in more a tan style, so in GT they decided to switch the color palette to better reflect that.

I suppose it's just a Toei thing in that regard to retroactively change colors to more accurately reflect old coloration.

[alakazam^]

So it'd be like the GT Goku thing then? Toriyama colored Goku in more a tan style, so in GT they decided to switch the color palette to better reflect that.

I suppose it's just a Toei thing in that regard to retroactively change colors to more accurately reflect old coloration.

I think Toriyama has always made Goku a bit tanned. Also, why do you always write in italics?

[Theophrastus]

Volume 3 first calendar week sales: 92,114 copies sold. For comparison, volume 2 sold 56,947 copies in the same amount of time.

[Lord Beerus]

Volume 3 first calendar week sales: 92,114 copies sold. For comparison, volume 2 sold 56,947 copies in the same amount of time.

Those are awesome numbers. The manga is truly gaining deserved amount of increasing popularity.

Keep it up, Toyotaro.

[batistabus]

That's great news! Glad to see the Super manga selling well.

Acording to @DetectiveX on Twitter...

DBS vol 3 is only 5 chapters.

If I'm right, and that Toyotaro is intentionally stretching to fill vol 4, next chapter should finish Zamasu.

Sounds good to me!

In other news, I have found that the Dragon Ball Super manga is the best way to introduce my friends to the new Dragon Ball material. I have two friends that I've shown the series two this way, and they absolutely love it. They either hated what they saw of the anime, didn't have time to sit through all the in-between material, or some combination of both, and they really seemed to like Toyotaro's contributions. These friends don't know each other, but are pretty big manga/anime fans generally. They have seen the entirety of the series in one medium or another, but I would consider their interest in Dragon Ball relatively casual compared to a Kanzenshuu-ite. They see Toriyama as extremely lazy, forgetful, and someone who has stupid tastes (in a funny way), but respect his work. Friend #2 has an especially high standard when it comes to manga, and he just caught up. As soon as he did, he messaged me saying "This sh*t has no business being this good."


The formula:
-Watch Battle of Gods
-Watch Resurrection F
-Read certain pages from the manga (the scene where Kibitokai defuses, the scene where Champa destroys Guarana's ship)
-Read the manga from Chapter 5

[TheSaiyanGod]

Let's hope that with the manga gaining more notoriety, be more valued.
Who knows to become a weekly (I do not know if this has already happened), or to have many more pages than the average one (despite the laborious routine of Toyotaro).

I do not know if anyone has posted this, it seems to be more of a Volume 3 bonus explaining how the Timeline in the manga works:

[spoiler][/spoiler]

It seems to have only two timelines.
It was confusing for me.

Has anyone understood?

[batistabus]

It seems to have only two timelines.
It was confusing for me.

Has anyone understood?

It has 3 timelines:
1) Trunks' future
2) Timeline where Zamasu steals Goku's body
3) Timeline where Zamasu is killed by Beerus as a result of Trunks warning Timeline 2

It really doesn't have any new information. It just explains that Zamasu stole Goku's body, killed him, went to Trunks' world, and then the Timeline 3 guys went to fight Zamasu/Black in Timeline 1.

[TheSaiyanGod]

It seems to have only two timelines.
It was confusing for me.

Has anyone understood?

It has 3 timelines:
1) Trunks' future
2) Timeline where Zamasu steals Goku's body
3) Timeline where Zamasu is killed by Beerus as a result of Trunks warning Timeline 2

It really doesn't have any new information. It just explains that Zamasu stole Goku's body, killed him, went to Trunks' world, and then the Timeline 3 guys went to fight Zamasu/Black in Timeline 1.

Thank you!

I thought I knew the basics about Time Lines in Dragon Ball, but that still confused me a lot.

I understood your point, I had noticed this during the anime, I was just confused

[DBZGTKOSDH]

More comfortable with SSJB? Because Toyotaro wanted to draw Vegeta using SSJB? There's no reason given in series, so why is just speculation on my part. Yours as well. As I could just as easily say, well why not use this amped SSJ form? Or just regular SSJG?

That's what I originally asked as well. Why, of all the forms he has, did Vegeta choose to use his most powerful & most flawed transformation against base Goku? And how did Goku survive his big ki blast without a scratch? Even in the original manga, where Trunks did the same against Goten with regular Super Saiyan, Goten's back got a small burn, and even in Toyotaro's AF, where Goku did the same thing against Paikuhan with Super Saiyan 5, Paikuhan got damaged all over his body.

My answer to both questions is that Goku & Vegeta were using the power of SSG in their base forms, meaning that using their golden forms were impossible, and SSG would be useless.

And that's a failure on the manga's part. In the same vein, I won't assume the Pilaf gang were at Bulma's party, because we weren't shown that they were. Maybe they joined up during the RoF Arc we didn't see.

I don't know if I would call it a failure on the manga's part, because the job of the manga wasn't to fully retell the movies in the first place. The BoG arc of the manga was merely a promotion for the anime & the Universe 6 Arc. The full story of the movies exists in, well, the movies.

There's plenty of reasons to disregard the scale. The fact that it applied to a movie when SSJB wasn't even an idea, is a good reason. Look at it this way, Shin himself only remarks that Vegetto Blue has surpassed Beerus when he's charging his ki for the Final Kamehameha. We know, from that, that no one up to that point had surpassed or even come close in power to Beerus. Merged Zamasu, was never said to be near Beerus. The fact that it took Vegetto to surpass Beerus should show the god scale isn't relevant in the slightest.

We have been given no reason to disregard the 6-10-15 scale so far (in the movies & manga at least). SSB Goku, SSB Vegeta, Golden Freeza, SSR Black, and Merged Zamasu are all shown to be at close levels with each other, with Beerus being above them, and SSB Vegetto even stronger.

And in the anime, by training in the RoSaT, Vegeta manages to surpass Black, just as he did in the manga. Vegeta makes no remarks about being close to a limit in the manga, much less one he would go onto contradict himself.

It wasn't said in the Super manga, but it was also said by Goku in the original manga, back in the Cell Games, and it was proven correct by Goku's & Vegeta's gains from the Cell Games to Boo arc, to BoG, to FnF, to U6 arc.

Now you're right, we're interrupting things differently. But if your interpretation is more valid, more logically sound as you claim that it is, then you explain it to me. And at that point, if I can remain a (for the lack of a better word) "non-believer" well then it's a testament to my inability to adapt, I suppose. But I trust you'll find given an adequate reason, you'll convince me. In all honesty, this is starting to remind me of Gotenks debates from way back when. (But hey, they changed my mind then.)

For me to describe why I disagree with you, let's see it in numbers. Assuming that base with SSG power & powered-up SS2 form isn't a thing:

Goku - 1
SS Goku - 50 (base x50, by Daizenshuu & SEG, approved by Toriyama)
SS2 Goku - 100 (SS x2, by SEG, approved by Toriyama)
SS3 Goku - 400 (SS2 x4, by SEG, approved by Toriyama)
SSG Goku - 6.000.000 (millions of times stronger than base IMO, because Goku could never imagine such power existed, so he has to be stronger than SS3 Vegetto would have been. I made him at 6 million here because it's a convenient number)
SSB Goku - 7.500.000 (SSG x1.25, to fit Golden Freeza & Merged Zamasu between Goku & Beerus)

Vegeta - 280
SS Vegeta - 14.000
SS2 Vegeta - 28.000
SSG Vegeta - 168.000.000.000
SSB Vegeta - 210.000.000.000

Trunks - 4
SS Trunks - 200
SS2 Trunks - 400

Black - 500
SS Black - 25.000

Black - 4.300.000.000
SS Black - 215.000.000.000
SSR Black - 3.225.000.000.000.000

Beerus - 10.000.000

Don't take the numbers too literally, but they should give a good gist of the situation. I won't give numbers to Full Power SSB Goku, Post-RoSaT SSB Vegeta, and Merged Zamasu, because that's where logic breaks apart if we go by that scale. The logic is already broken though, not from Trunks being x4 stronger than Goku, but from Vegeta being hundreds of times stronger than Goku when they are supposed to rival each other in power. Not only that, but look how strong Black gets... These numbers make no sense, and Toyotaro isn't an idiot who doesn't know about DB to make such plot-holes within his story.


On the other hand, we have the base with SSG power in the movies, and it is even stated that they can freely use the SSG power in their base forms. Why not assume that Goku, Vegeta, and Black can do that in the manga continuity as well, which even appears to be in the same continuity with the movies starting from chapter 5?

As for the powered-up SS2 form, ever since BoG came out, SS2 Vegeta magically surpassed SS3 Goku & Ultimate Gohan by getting angry. I say magically because there is no logic behind it, as he has no dormant powers left in him (other than the SS3, SSG, and SSB dormant powers), so it isn't the same as Gohan & Oob. Neither the Super manga, nor the Super anime gave any further explanations behind this power-up in their BoG arc adaptations, and the power-up was presumed to be temporary while Vegeta never used SS2 again in any continuity. Then SS2 Trunks spars with SS2 Goku, and they appear to be equals. Until Goku uses SS3, and Trunks reveals that he wasn't satisfied with SS2's power either. He powers-up at a level equal with SS3 Goku, but unlike Goku, he doesn't transform, and Vegeta comments this. This implies that Trunks made his SS2 form stronger than it originally was, and he didn't just become stronger. And then later against Black, Vegeta uses SS2 for the first time ever since BoG, and he is at the same level he was back in BoG (above SS3 Goku & Ultimate Gohan), while he is shown to be equal with Goku in his base, SS, and SSB forms through the manga, and he comments about being much stronger than SS2 Trunks. This implies that Vegeta also improved his SS2 form, and on a higher level than Trunks did. It even shows that Vegeta in fact didn't magically become stronger back in BoG.

I dunno, I think everything makes a lot more sense that way. And while Toyotaro didn't explain things properly, there are implications here & there.

Apologies for the time it took to get back to you.

Took me a while as well.

[Miracles]

It seems to have only two timelines.
It was confusing for me.

Has anyone understood?

It has 3 timelines:
1) Trunks' future
2) Timeline where Zamasu steals Goku's body
3) Timeline where Zamasu is killed by Beerus as a result of Trunks warning Timeline 2

It really doesn't have any new information. It just explains that Zamasu stole Goku's body, killed him, went to Trunks' world, and then the Timeline 3 guys went to fight Zamasu/Black in Timeline 1.

Pretty much accurate according to both anime/manga.

[batistabus]

(approved by Toriyama)

You know this doesn't actually mean anything, right? If by "approved" you mean Toriyama looked at it and didn't say "no", you could say he "approved" of GT or even Evolution. You're free to play around with numbers like these in the Fan-Created Works section, but this has nothing to do with the Dragon Ball Super manga. Just as a suggestion, if you want to play with battle power numbers, you might want to use Golden Freeza's stated estimated power of 1,300,000 as reference. You could say that he underestimated how much stronger he would become, but he would have to have become almost 14,000 times stronger than he initially predicted.

Edit: After reading through your post again, it seems like you may be using these numbers to illustrate the fact that they might not be a good thing to go off of? If so, then I think you're making a good point!

[DBZGTKOSDH]

(approved by Toriyama)

You know this doesn't actually mean anything, right? If by "approved" you mean Toriyama looked at it and didn't say "no", you could say he "approved" of GT or even Evolution. You're free to play around with numbers like these in the Fan-Created Works section, but this has nothing to do with the Dragon Ball Super manga. Just as a suggestion, if you want to play with battle power numbers, you might want to use Golden Freeza's stated estimated power of 1,300,000 as reference.

Toriyama specifically approved that section of SEG, not the whole books. I'm not saying "it was approved so it's canon STFU!", but it was approved, and it was written with big letters inside the book, so take that as you will.

And I think you should pay more attention to my post, because I'm not playing with numbers here. This isn't a discussion about who is stronger than who, we are talking about the story of the manga, specifically how SS forms work. I made these numbers to show TAF108 why, IMO, his interpretation of the story doesn't make sense.