The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[Kamiccolo9]

It's not quite one-shot material though, IMO, and there are two of them with attacks that will seriously fuck Chaozu up if they're smart about it.

If this were Tenshinhan, Krillin or Yamcha we were dealing with here, I would get it. But Chaozu is another deal altogether.

It was enough for Goku to one-shot Recoome. Recoome was in the 35-45 thousand range, with Ginyu saying that he would estimate that Goku was at 60 thousand to be able to one shot the guy. And Recoome was a frickin tank.

Chiaotzu has the Dodonpa, which is said to be a stronger technique than the Kamehameha. Piccolo needs time to charge up a Makakanpottomas. And Chiaotzu can utilize his psychic powers to the fullest here, since both opponents are weaker than he is. I see this going more like Guldo vs Krillin and Gohan, only in this instance, imagine Guldo was capable of one-shotting both of them.

[In Brightest Day]

Ginyu said he'd need 60,000 to beat Recoome, not one shot him. Goku ended up around 90,000.

[Kamiccolo9]

Ginyu said he'd need 60,000 to beat Recoome, not one shot him. Goku ended up around 90,000.

Jeice informed Ginyu on what had happened. Ginyu knew the sequence of events, and still said that Goku would need to be at 60 thousand to do what he did.

[In Brightest Day]

Jeice informed Ginyu they were defeated.

[Kamiccolo9]

Jeice informed Ginyu they were defeated.

He knows that he effortlessly beat Jeice, Burter, and Recoome. And he estimates that to be able to do that, he should be around 60 thousand. I don't know how much cleare it could get.

[In Brightest Day]

Could you post a scan of the conversation?

[Kamiccolo9]

Could you post a scan of the conversation?

No, I don't have a digital copy, and I have no way of scanning one. My computer camera is busted.

But it's two separate conversations. Jeice tells him what happened at Freeza's ship, and Ginyu estimates Goku's strength when he sees him on the battlefield.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

@Hugo Boss.

I don't think you understand, this is fiction we're talking about. In fiction, statements are facts unless contradicted, because you cannot write a story or establish a universe with characters lying all the time.

It'd be understandable if Goku said it maybe once, but given the multiple statements, implications, and looking at the context, it seems clear SSJ Gotenks > Fat Boo.

It's never contradicted, and the Super Boo fight can't be used to negate the statements, since he's said to be stronger than Fat Boo.

[Kamiccolo9]

Did you seriously just ascribe a rule to all of fiction?

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

I don't see what's so hard about it? If an author puts a statement multiple times saying the same thing and never has anything go against it, I think the message he's trying to get across is clear.

And no, I didn't, that's a rule I picked up on neoseeker

[Kamiccolo9]

I don't see what's so hard about it? If an author puts a statement multiple times saying the same thing and never has anything go against it, I think the message he's trying to get across is clear.

And no, I didn't, that's a rule I picked up on neoseeker

Oh, so someone with authority made this rule then. Could you provide it please?

[RandomGuy96]

Tenshinhan (1,830) was also able to one-shot a Cultivar (1,200), thus adding more validity to the "x1.5 difference = taking down someone in 1-3 hits" statement. Initial Raditz also one-shotted weighted Goku (granted, it was a gut shot, and Goku wasn't significantly injured or incapacitated). Goku and Piccolo both thought that they could beat Initial Raditz as a team without their weights and without resorting to heroic sacrifices (he unveiled more power, of course), so he can't be that high either.

[Angelus]

Okay, so how much would your estimate be of Raditz power level after Gohan headbutted him? Gohan had a power level of around 1,307 when he did that head butt.

And for those that missed out, this is the most recent versus.. posted a page or two ago:

Androids Saga Base Gohan VS Cell Games Krillin, Tien, Yamcha, and Chiaotzu
[No Kienzan/Tribeam]

100% Final Form Frieza VS Androids Saga Piccolo with no weighted clothing (Pre-ROSAT/Pre-Kami fusion)

Kamiccolo + Kamiccolo Potara Fusion VS Full Power SSJ3 Goku (Otherworld body)

Zangya VS Cell Games Piccolo
[No wires/threads magic]

King Piccolo VS Tarble (armored but with no scouter)
[No tail grabbing/cutting]

[singsing]

Naked Thanos (so no tech or gear or whatever of any kind) vs Whis (assuming SSG Goku is dimensions above a hypothetical SSJ3 Vegetto)

Androids Saga Base Gohan VS Cell Games Krillin, Tenshinhan, Yamcha, and Chiaotzu
[No Kienzan/Tribeam]

100% Final Form Freeza VS Androids Saga Piccolo with no weighted clothing (Pre-ROSAT/Pre-Kami fusion)

Kamiccolo + Kamiccolo Potara Fusion VS Full Power SSJ3 Goku (Otherworld body)

Zangya VS Cell Games Piccolo
[No wires/threads magic]

King Piccolo VS Tarble (armored but with no scouter)
[No tail grabbing/cutting]

I think Krillin alone could stomp tbh. I'm one of those that have the top humans at a couple million at least.

Freeza should be able to win pretty comfortably.

Might just be me but I think Goku dies to a sneeze.

Piccolo

Old or young Piccolo? I think young could win.

[In Brightest Day]

Androids arc Son Gohan vs. Cell Games Krillin, Tenshinhan, Yamcha & Chaozu

Collectively, I think the Earthlings can take it. I have Gohan sitting around 4 million, while Krillin, Tien and Yamcha reflect the three strongest pre-Super Saiyan/100% Freeza characters we see on Namek:

- Krillin: 3,000,000 (base Son Goku)
- Tenshinhan: 2,000,000 to 2,300,000 (3rd form Freeza to post-Zenkai Vegeta range)
- Yamcha: 1,500,000 (Piccolo/2nd form Freeza).

Tien leaving Chaozu at home suggests to me that he's fallen too far behind the others. I don't think he can challenge 1st form Freeza, honestly.

So barring Kienzan/Ki-Ko-Ho shenanigans, the others are skilled enough to take Gohan down. Their gains between the Android arc and Cell Games would be negligible, though.

100% Final Form Freeza vs. Android arc Piccolo (Pre-Kami fusion).

Piccolo takes this as comfortably as post-Yadrat Goku would have, imo.

Zangya vs. Cell Games Piccolo.

Were Bojacks goons given official levels? I rather lazily just put them around the Cell Juniors in strength, meaning Piccolo inevitably loses.

King Piccolo vs. Tarble.

I think Tarble would have recieved a pretty generous Zenkai after his close call with Avo and Cado prior to Yo! Son Goku and his Friends Return. He could literally beat Piccolo Daimao with his finger.

[Eternal Super Saiyan]

Okay, so how much would your estimate be of Raditz power level after Gohan headbutted him? Gohan had a power level of around 700 when he did that head butt.

The scouter read 1,307 when he headbutted Raditz. If he was 500 lower than Raditz' battle power (1200) he wouldn't have hurt him, let alone damaging his armor. The 710 was when Gohan was crying inside of the spacepod before Goku/Piccolo showed up for battle.

Were Bojacks goons given official levels? I rather lazily just put them around the Cell Juniors in strength, meaning Piccolo inevitably loses.

To my knowledge, the only non-canon characters that were given power levels, were Final Form Cooler and his Armored Squad, LSSJ Broly, and Super Gogeta.

Though V-jump's numbers tend to be a little off, take the Armored Squad for example being each under 200,000. (163,000 - 170,000 - 185,000). Meanwhile we see Piccolo who's far superior to 2nd form Frieza, fighting on almost an equal level with Sauzer. Can't say I can trust their power levels.

[Angelus]

Oh, right. I mixed up those power levels. So what about you, how much drop in power level do you estimate Raditz had after that head butt?

[Hugo Boss]

@Hugo Boss.

I don't think you understand, this is fiction we're talking about. In fiction, statements are facts unless contradicted, because you cannot write a story or establish a universe with characters lying all the time.

It'd be understandable if Goku said it maybe once, but given the multiple statements, implications, and looking at the context, it seems clear SSJ Gotenks > Fat Boo.

It's never contradicted, and the Super Boo fight can't be used to negate the statements, since he's said to be stronger than Fat Boo.

Really, can you bring at least one direct statement regarding Gotenks [before the training] and Fat Boo?

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Really, can you bring at least one direct statement regarding Gotenks [before the training] and Fat Boo?

Oh my god

You don't need a direct statement.

-Akira Toriyama purposely writes in the Gotenks will be stronger than Fat Boo, what, 3 times? None of them are ever contradicted

-He has Goku say Gotenks will be stronger than him

- Piccolo says base Gotenks is not powerful enough.

-SSJ Gotenks' power is never questioned once, only his time limit.

-As soon as Super Saiyan Gotenks is formed, he defuses just before fighting Fat Boo, and Boo transforms.

And all of this hints to you he's weaker than Vegeta? There's not one statement saying Gotenks would be weaker than Majin Vegeta, yet you go by that?

Like what does this all sound like to you?

1. Gotenks was as strong as he was hyped up to be the whole time, and instead of ending the story arc early by having Gotenks beat Fat Boo, Akira just made Boo transform into a more powerful form.

or

2. Akira Toriyama makes all of his characters lie and throws in multiple statements just for you to completely disregard.

You know what else makes me wonder? If Gotenks was that weak, why didn't Piccolo send him into the rosat?? As soon as Super Boo forms, Piccolo notes Gotenks has no chance and sends him into the rosat. If Gotenks had no chance against Fat Boo, why didn't Piccolo send him into the rosat then?? For the lulz??

[Hugo Boss]

If I want to see a simple strenght comparison, I need a direct statement. Other than that it sounds a fallacy, a baseless assumption. Before training in the RoSaT, the only direct statement we have from Gotenks is that he can't beat Evil Boo and this was confirmed when they fought.

The other implications are so vague that I can't picture a direct strenght comparison from that. Basically, Goku told Piccolo that he told Boo someone even stronger would show up. I guess that's the minimal thing to say to maintain Boo interested and not blow up the planet before Gotenks is ready. Saying Base Gotenks is not powerful enough is no guarantee that his SS form is. SS Gotenks' power is commented by Piccolo and yet no direct comparison with Fat Boo's power.

I like that idea of defining Gotenks as still a work-in-progress before training in the RoSaT (I don't remember who mentioned it - Herms, Kaboom?). I never said there is hint to assume he was weaker than Vegeta, it's only that he does stuff after his training in the RoSaT that make pretty obvious that he surpassed Vegeta. That way Boo could say "Now this is the warrior I was told about".

Personally, I think he even surpassed Goku power-wise and before the training Gotenks was potentially capable of being a match for Fat Boo, but still we don't know about his techniques. To say that he was factually stronger than Vegeta would need prove.