Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
We know the man didn't know how he ended up there. So Kami was given no consent.
No, we just know that he doesn't know how he ended up there. Maybe the guy forgot. Being a meatsuit for God must be a hell of an experience.
It also fomented evil and greed.
And brought back good people like Bora and Kuririn. The Dragon Balls didn't create those emotions. They are neither good nor bad. They are neutral. The Red Ribbon Army would've caused death and destruction regardless of the Dragon Balls.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
Does anyone else feel like the Black arc should've been after the multiverse got expanded? I don't know, having Zamasu be one of the Kaioshin at the Universe Survival Tournament and witnessing all of these powerful mortals, along with the various incompetencies or wasteful behavior of the Gods present would've served as a good setup for him.
Plus, I feel like his plan of destroying everything to create a utopia would work better with a grander scale, preferably one involving the death of Zeno instead of the current "let's just not get in Zeno's way if possible...." approach.
Obviously I'm not saying we should've gotten two tournaments one right after the other but still, the Black arcs plan feels very small scale for what feels like should be an endgame conclusion to the Gods saga.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Absolute Zamasu(my name for their fusion) wins. He fulfils his utopia and dwells in his loneliness(x amount of time for this to happen). He starts to doubt of his achievements, Goku's body influences him to seek out challenges but there's nothing. Perfection becomes a curse. Absolute Zamasu starts to dread his existence and presents himself to the Omni-King, detailing on his actions.
Using his powers the Omni-King restores everything to the moment before Goku and Vegeta perish, humanity's last barrier. Zamasu concedes. He ask for forgiveness(mainly to Goku, Gowasu and Trunks) and understands that his justice isn't justice at all. He asks for judgement and the Omni-King delivers.
Trunks is forced never to travel in time ever again, all the time-machines are destroyed.
ekrolo2 wrote:Does anyone else feel like the Black arc should've been after the multiverse got expanded? I don't know, having Zamasu be one of the Kaioshin at the Universe Survival Tournament and witnessing all of these powerful mortals, along with the various incompetencies or wasteful behavior of the Gods present would've served as a good setup for him.
Plus, I feel like his plan of destroying everything to create a utopia would work better with a grander scale, preferably one involving the death of Zeno instead of the current "let's just not get in Zeno's way if possible...." approach.
Obviously I'm not saying we should've gotten two tournaments one right after the other but still, the Black arcs plan feels very small scale for what feels like should be an endgame conclusion to the Gods saga.
I don't know about the Zeno part, as far as we know he's invincible.
ekrolo2 wrote:Does anyone else feel like the Black arc should've been after the multiverse got expanded? I don't know, having Zamasu be one of the Kaioshin at the Universe Survival Tournament and witnessing all of these powerful mortals, along with the various incompetencies or wasteful behavior of the Gods present would've served as a good setup for him.
Plus, I feel like his plan of destroying everything to create a utopia would work better with a grander scale, preferably one involving the death of Zeno instead of the current "let's just not get in Zeno's way if possible...." approach.
Obviously I'm not saying we should've gotten two tournaments one right after the other but still, the Black arcs plan feels very small scale for what feels like should be an endgame conclusion to the Gods saga.
I don't know about the Zeno part, as far as we know he's invincible.
I think the Super Dragon Balls could do something to him. I feel like if Zamasu's goal is to become the Supreme God, he should actually become the Supreme God in every way.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Absolute Zamasu(my name for their fusion) wins. He fulfils his utopia and dwells in his loneliness(x amount of time for this to happen). He starts to doubt of his achievements, Goku's body influences him to seek out challenges but there's nothing. Perfection becomes a curse. Absolute Zamasu starts to dread his existence and presents himself to the Omni-King, detailing on his actions.
Using his powers the Omni-King restores everything to the moment before Goku and Vegeta perish, humanity's last barrier. Zamasu concedes. He ask for forgiveness(mainly to Goku, Gowasu and Trunks) and understands that his justice isn't justice at all. He asks for judgement and the Omni-King delivers.
Trunks is forced never to travel in time ever again, all the time-machines are destroyed.
ABED wrote:Have you ever watched the first episode of a show and noticed that the dialog is often very expositional and characters don't talk in a way like they've known each other for years or know the information they are conveying to each other just so they can tell it to the audience? Considering DBZ is the middle of the story and the audience had little issue getting up to speed, I think many writers need to rethink their approach. Perhaps it's the studios that force it on writers. Either way, I think people are capable of getting information organically than through expositional dialog.
Care to give some examples of that and how would you change it?
ekrolo2 wrote:Does anyone else feel like the Black arc should've been after the multiverse got expanded? I don't know, having Zamasu be one of the Kaioshin at the Universe Survival Tournament and witnessing all of these powerful mortals, along with the various incompetencies or wasteful behavior of the Gods present would've served as a good setup for him.
Plus, I feel like his plan of destroying everything to create a utopia would work better with a grander scale, preferably one involving the death of Zeno instead of the current "let's just not get in Zeno's way if possible...." approach.
Obviously I'm not saying we should've gotten two tournaments one right after the other but still, the Black arcs plan feels very small scale for what feels like should be an endgame conclusion to the Gods saga.
Yes, it would fit better the Future Trunks arc being after the Tournament of Power, I even pointed the conflict in thread that I made as I don't believe Zamasu and Black were capable to eliminated all the mortals across the universes by themselves with U7 Earth being the last ones.
Are we too old to enjoy new Dragon Ball movies/series?
Spoiler:
Nickolaidas wrote: Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:10 am
Guys, I'm going to be straight with you. If you feel the show has gotten 'silly' ... it hasn't. You're just 'too old for this shit'. Seriously, 95% of the people in those boards do not fit the target demographic of the show, so don't expect the show to be 'everything you hoped for'. I'm referring to the people here who expect Super to be rich with dark moments, serious storytelling, meaningful characters etc etc. It won't. It's a show for kids. A show for kids being kids. Everyone in those boards has a manchild in him/her, clamoring to get out, and that's fine. But having unrealistic expectations (such as believing the show grew up alongside you) is naïve at best. Honestly, do you take seriously a story where the supposed God of Destruction halts his urges to blow up stuff in order to eat ice cream sundae? That's the show's silliness at full force, take it for what it is. The show hasn't matured one bit, so don't expect it too. Again, I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I'm saying *that* is DB and always will be.
Noah wrote:Yes, it would fit better the Future Trunks arc being after the Tournament of Power, I even pointed the conflict in thread that I made as I don't believe Zamasu and Black were capable to eliminated all the mortals across the universes by themselves with U7 Earth being the last ones.
The manga wisely has the plan still be under progress but the anime fucked it up somehow letting SSJ2 tier Black & Zamasu take out everyone across the multiverse.... how?! How the fuck did they kill Hit without Black powering up massively from it? And no, I don't buy the whole "Zamasu wore them down!" BS because Black's character revolves around fighting strong people to improve himself, there's no way he wouldn't want to fight strong guys if it meant getting better use of Goku's body.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Absolute Zamasu(my name for their fusion) wins. He fulfils his utopia and dwells in his loneliness(x amount of time for this to happen). He starts to doubt of his achievements, Goku's body influences him to seek out challenges but there's nothing. Perfection becomes a curse. Absolute Zamasu starts to dread his existence and presents himself to the Omni-King, detailing on his actions.
Using his powers the Omni-King restores everything to the moment before Goku and Vegeta perish, humanity's last barrier. Zamasu concedes. He ask for forgiveness(mainly to Goku, Gowasu and Trunks) and understands that his justice isn't justice at all. He asks for judgement and the Omni-King delivers.
Trunks is forced never to travel in time ever again, all the time-machines are destroyed.
ekrolo2 wrote:Does anyone else feel like the Black arc should've been after the multiverse got expanded? I don't know, having Zamasu be one of the Kaioshin at the Universe Survival Tournament and witnessing all of these powerful mortals, along with the various incompetencies or wasteful behavior of the Gods present would've served as a good setup for him.
Plus, I feel like his plan of destroying everything to create a utopia would work better with a grander scale, preferably one involving the death of Zeno instead of the current "let's just not get in Zeno's way if possible...." approach.
Obviously I'm not saying we should've gotten two tournaments one right after the other but still, the Black arcs plan feels very small scale for what feels like should be an endgame conclusion to the Gods saga.
I don't think Zamasu's ideals work after you take into account how irresponsible the Omni-king is. His entire doctrine is based on the fact that the Gods are superior to mortals and here are the Gods being incompetent.
Care to give some examples of that and how would you change it?
Dragon Ball circumvents that by having Goku and Bulma meet for the first time in the first episode. We meet them as they meet and learn about each other. In DBZ, at their get together on Roshi's island, they talk like they've known each other for years and are catching up. In the pilot to Supernatural, the scene where Dean and Sam talk to each other after the first time in a few years, it's a tad too expositional. Sam is talking about things that Dean already knows. I've seen more blatant examples in other TV series, though none are jumping out to me off the top of my head.
If I was writing and had the freedom, I'd treat the beginning like we are in the middle of the characters' stories and they don't need to tell everything about their past upfront for the sake of the audience. No, "as you know, Bob..." dialog.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
ekrolo2 wrote:Does anyone else feel like the Black arc should've been after the multiverse got expanded? I don't know, having Zamasu be one of the Kaioshin at the Universe Survival Tournament and witnessing all of these powerful mortals, along with the various incompetencies or wasteful behavior of the Gods present would've served as a good setup for him.
Plus, I feel like his plan of destroying everything to create a utopia would work better with a grander scale, preferably one involving the death of Zeno instead of the current "let's just not get in Zeno's way if possible...." approach.
Obviously I'm not saying we should've gotten two tournaments one right after the other but still, the Black arcs plan feels very small scale for what feels like should be an endgame conclusion to the Gods saga.
I don't think Zamasu's ideals work after you take into account how irresponsible the Omni-king is. His entire doctrine is based on the fact that the Gods are superior to mortals and here are the Gods being incompetent.
True, but he thinks it is. And so does Toyotaro, for some reason. No, I won't stop complaining about him portraying Zamasu's ideology seriously.
I don't know how true Zamasu's faith in his fellow Gods is since he kills them all and chastises them for not submitting to his way of thinking.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Absolute Zamasu(my name for their fusion) wins. He fulfils his utopia and dwells in his loneliness(x amount of time for this to happen). He starts to doubt of his achievements, Goku's body influences him to seek out challenges but there's nothing. Perfection becomes a curse. Absolute Zamasu starts to dread his existence and presents himself to the Omni-King, detailing on his actions.
Using his powers the Omni-King restores everything to the moment before Goku and Vegeta perish, humanity's last barrier. Zamasu concedes. He ask for forgiveness(mainly to Goku, Gowasu and Trunks) and understands that his justice isn't justice at all. He asks for judgement and the Omni-King delivers.
Trunks is forced never to travel in time ever again, all the time-machines are destroyed.
TheUltimateNinja wrote:Zamasu had no qualms about killing all of them off so I'd say that when he says 'Gods' he's really only talking about himself.
Pretty much.
Another alteration I would've liked is if Zamasu actually wished for the Super DBs to wipe out all the humans in his timeline but after some time passing, he starts to resent this and wants to perform the act himself for personnel satisfaction and then starts harassing other timelines. A decision I think can work regardless if you keep Zamasu as himself or if you have him get Goku's body before wishing away all the humans.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Absolute Zamasu(my name for their fusion) wins. He fulfils his utopia and dwells in his loneliness(x amount of time for this to happen). He starts to doubt of his achievements, Goku's body influences him to seek out challenges but there's nothing. Perfection becomes a curse. Absolute Zamasu starts to dread his existence and presents himself to the Omni-King, detailing on his actions.
Using his powers the Omni-King restores everything to the moment before Goku and Vegeta perish, humanity's last barrier. Zamasu concedes. He ask for forgiveness(mainly to Goku, Gowasu and Trunks) and understands that his justice isn't justice at all. He asks for judgement and the Omni-King delivers.
Trunks is forced never to travel in time ever again, all the time-machines are destroyed.
ekrolo2 wrote:Does anyone else feel like the Black arc should've been after the multiverse got expanded? I don't know, having Zamasu be one of the Kaioshin at the Universe Survival Tournament and witnessing all of these powerful mortals, along with the various incompetencies or wasteful behavior of the Gods present would've served as a good setup for him.
Plus, I feel like his plan of destroying everything to create a utopia would work better with a grander scale, preferably one involving the death of Zeno instead of the current "let's just not get in Zeno's way if possible...." approach.
Obviously I'm not saying we should've gotten two tournaments one right after the other but still, the Black arcs plan feels very small scale for what feels like should be an endgame conclusion to the Gods saga.
I was actually thinking about this. It would certainly make Zamasu's hatred towards Goku much less out of left field. And i agree about a smaller scale arc being a good ending for the 'God Saga' as well
I'd like to build off Doctor's question and ask this: does every universe has its own Yemma and afterlife? I assume so cause Goku probably would've noticed talk of a multiverse if he stuck around people from it for seven years.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Absolute Zamasu(my name for their fusion) wins. He fulfils his utopia and dwells in his loneliness(x amount of time for this to happen). He starts to doubt of his achievements, Goku's body influences him to seek out challenges but there's nothing. Perfection becomes a curse. Absolute Zamasu starts to dread his existence and presents himself to the Omni-King, detailing on his actions.
Using his powers the Omni-King restores everything to the moment before Goku and Vegeta perish, humanity's last barrier. Zamasu concedes. He ask for forgiveness(mainly to Goku, Gowasu and Trunks) and understands that his justice isn't justice at all. He asks for judgement and the Omni-King delivers.
Trunks is forced never to travel in time ever again, all the time-machines are destroyed.
The Kaio reside in the afterlife, and the Kaioshin oversee the afterlife. If every Universe has its own Kaio and Kaioshin, they would all have to have their own afterlife.
And, for what it's worth, Chapter 16 of the manga shows Universe 10, afterlife and all:
I wonder how didn't took centuries for Black and Future Zamasu lay waste in the whole Multiverse and If they also destroyed the afterlife of those universes?
Are we too old to enjoy new Dragon Ball movies/series?
Spoiler:
Nickolaidas wrote: Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:10 am
Guys, I'm going to be straight with you. If you feel the show has gotten 'silly' ... it hasn't. You're just 'too old for this shit'. Seriously, 95% of the people in those boards do not fit the target demographic of the show, so don't expect the show to be 'everything you hoped for'. I'm referring to the people here who expect Super to be rich with dark moments, serious storytelling, meaningful characters etc etc. It won't. It's a show for kids. A show for kids being kids. Everyone in those boards has a manchild in him/her, clamoring to get out, and that's fine. But having unrealistic expectations (such as believing the show grew up alongside you) is naïve at best. Honestly, do you take seriously a story where the supposed God of Destruction halts his urges to blow up stuff in order to eat ice cream sundae? That's the show's silliness at full force, take it for what it is. The show hasn't matured one bit, so don't expect it too. Again, I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I'm saying *that* is DB and always will be.
Noah wrote:I wonder how didn't took centuries for Black and Future Zamasu lay waste in the whole Multiverse and If they also destroyed the afterlife of those universes?
Weaker SSJG Goku was already established as having the power to vaporize the whole universe. He simply restrained himself. If Zamasu had no such restraint than he could have wiped out 12 universes in a few hours at most.
