Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[TBMx]

I think SSB is being "nerfed" especially in recruiting episodes. Fight against Toppo, Goku in SSJ could not quite face him, but in SSB managed to not only rival, but also take a small advantage.That is why I do not see Gohan Goku SSB level, hit two strokes does not mean anything since Trunks already did the Even and they did not work and Gohan wanted to test their limits.

Blue isn't being nerfed, it's been meaningless for awhile. Ever since the Zamasu arc.

SSJ 2 Trunks withstands the Rose Kamehameha just as well as Goku Blue.
SSJ2 Trunks fights Zamasu just as well as Goku Blue did on their first trip.
Goku Blue does no better against 17 than Super Saiyan Goku. Android takes it in stride.
Same with Toppo. Toppo just rises to the occasion within what, 20 seconds.
Goku goes Blue for Krillin when the exact same thing could have happened at Base.
This Gohan incident, where FULL POWER Mystic Gohan does just as well against Blue as he does against SS2 Goku.
Trunks's saiyan Rage form has been shown to be MORE effective than Blue in numerous instances and less effective in others. Whenever is plot convenient.

The reason why Mystic Gohan is a match for Goku Blue is because SSB doesn't mean anything now and is interchangable with other transformations randomly or whenever Toei get this whim to put another character over. Power scaling doesn't exist in dragonball anymore besides Goku Blue Kaioken basically being an I-WIN button against most. It's become that simplistic.

[Lord Beerus]

Manga leaks are out and there are some very interesting developments:
- Goku is given Future Trunks' physical power
- Goku, with that power from Future Trunks, has mastered SSJB
- Mastered SSJB Goku fights even with Merged Zamasu. This would mean that Masted SSJB Goku is technically now as strong as SSJB Vegetto, at the very least.

[Legion]

Goku is not strong as Vegetto Blue Goku did not damaged Merged Zamasu at all...

Wait the chapter, is better.

[Lord Beerus]

Goku is not strong as Vegetto Blue Goku did not damaged Merged Zamasu at all...

I'm not so sure about that:
[spoiler][/spoiler]
Also, I was mistaken. Future Trunks actually healed Goku and Goku just suddenly gained the ability to master SSJB, coincidently.

[Legion]

Goku is not strong as Vegetto Blue Goku did not damaged Merged Zamasu at all...

I'm not so sure about that:
[spoiler][/spoiler]
Also, I was mistaken. Future Trunks actually healed Goku and Goku just suddenly gained the ability to master SSJB, coincidently.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DACWHkjVYAIcwx_.jpg:large

This is the last page. And say that Goku is strong as Vegetto is like to say that is strong as Beerus, and he's not.

[Lord Beerus]

Goku is not strong as Vegetto Blue Goku did not damaged Merged Zamasu at all...

I'm not so sure about that:
[spoiler][/spoiler]
Also, I was mistaken. Future Trunks actually healed Goku and Goku just suddenly gained the ability to master SSJB, coincidently.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DACWHkjVYAIcwx_.jpg:large

This is the last page. And say that Goku is strong as Vegetto is like to say that is strong as Beerus, and he's not.

It doesn't contradict anything about what we previously see. SSJB Goku lands a solid punch on Merged Zamasu. He punches him so hard it even leaves a huge bruise on Merged Zamasu's face and it even makes him bleed a little. There's no way in hell he would be have been able to do that if he isn't as a strong as Merged Zamasu, by virtue, as power as SSJB Vegetto.

[SaiyanGod117]

I'm not so sure about that:
[spoiler][/spoiler]
Also, I was mistaken. Future Trunks actually healed Goku and Goku just suddenly gained the ability to master SSJB, coincidently.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DACWHkjVYAIcwx_.jpg:large

This is the last page. And say that Goku is strong as Vegetto is like to say that is strong as Beerus, and he's not.

It doesn't contradict anything about what we previously see. SSJB Goku lands a solid punch on Merged Zamasu. He punch him so hard it even leave a huge bruise on Merged Zamasu's face and it even make him bleed a little. There's now way in hell he would be have been able to do that if he isn't as a strong as Merged Zamasu, by virtue, as power as SSJB Vegetto.

Goku isn't as strong as Vegito, Merged Zamasu wasn't even lable to land one hit on Vegito, he was in utter control of the whole fight.

[Legion]

I'm not so sure about that:
[spoiler][/spoiler]
Also, I was mistaken. Future Trunks actually healed Goku and Goku just suddenly gained the ability to master SSJB, coincidently.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DACWHkjVYAIcwx_.jpg:large

This is the last page. And say that Goku is strong as Vegetto is like to say that is strong as Beerus, and he's not.

It doesn't contradict anything about what we previously see. SSJB Goku lands a solid punch on Merged Zamasu. He punch him so hard it even leave a huge bruise on Merged Zamasu's face and it even make him bleed a little. There's now way in hell he would be have been able to do that if he isn't as a strong as Merged Zamasu, by virtue, as power as SSJB Vegetto.

Vegetto is far above to Merged Zamasu in the manga. SSJB Goku already hit Zamasu in the previous chapters, but this does not mean that is strong as him. Again, in this chapter Goku is exhausted in the end and he really did nothing to him.

But like i said, is better to wait the chapter.

[ZombieVito]

Goku is not strong as Vegetto Blue Goku did not damaged Merged Zamasu at all...

I'm not so sure about that:
[spoiler][/spoiler]
Also, I was mistaken. Future Trunks actually healed Goku and Goku just suddenly gained the ability to master SSJB, coincidently.

Keep in mind that Merged Zamasu in the manga is only equivalent to initial Merged Zamasu in the anime. He's not on Vegetto's level until his second or third power up.

It doesn't make sense at all for Goku to be stronger just for being healed. Why the fuck didn't Trunks use the ability on Gowasu?

[Lord Beerus]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DACWHkjVYAIcwx_.jpg:large

This is the last page. And say that Goku is strong as Vegetto is like to say that is strong as Beerus, and he's not.

It doesn't contradict anything about what we previously see. SSJB Goku lands a solid punch on Merged Zamasu. He punches him so hard it even leaves a huge bruise on Merged Zamasu's face and it even makes him bleed a little. There's no way in hell he would be have been able to do that if he isn't as a strong as Merged Zamasu, by virtue, as power as SSJB Vegetto..

Vegetto is far above to Merged Zamasu in the manga. SSJB Goku already hit Zamasu in the previous chapters, but this does not mean that is strong as him. Again, in this chapter Goku is exhausted in the end and he really did nothing to him.

But like i said, is better to wait the chapter.

The fact SSJB Goku blasted a hole through Merged Zamasu was already nonsense as it is. Merged Zamasu should have tanked that shit. But, yeah, I'll wait for the full chapter to be released before I come to a judgement but it's not looking good. I fear the power scaling may have really gone off the rails in the manga.

Goku is not strong as Vegetto Blue Goku did not damaged Merged Zamasu at all...

I'm not so sure about that:
[spoiler][/spoiler]
Also, I was mistaken. Future Trunks actually healed Goku and Goku just suddenly gained the ability to master SSJB, coincidently.

Keep in mind that Merged Zamasu in the manga is only equivalent to initial Merged Zamasu in the anime. He's not on Vegetto's level until his second or third power up.

It doesn't make sense at all for Goku to be stronger just for being healed. Why the fuck didn't Trunks use the ability on Gowasu?

Apparently, Goku can seemingly suddenly mastered SSJB from Future Trunks giving him his physical power and healing him. And because of that his strength spikes. It's nonsense. Especially since Future Trunks is as best SSJ3 Majin Boo arc tier. I'm guessing the gap in strength between SSJB Goku and Merged Zamasu is not that big. But it begs the question as to why Goku and Vegeta even bothered to fuse? It also makes you wonder how strong Vegetto really is. Because if Base Vegetto was able to take off a chunk of Merged Zamasu's upper body, then he's got to be at least as strong as SSJB Goku, considering he was able to blast a hole through him.

[Basako]

It doesn't contradict anything about what we previously see. SSJB Goku lands a solid punch on Merged Zamasu. He punches him so hard it even leaves a huge bruise on Merged Zamasu's face and it even makes him bleed a little. There's no way in hell he would be have been able to do that if he isn't as a strong as Merged Zamasu, by virtue, as power as SSJB Vegetto..

Vegetto is far above to Merged Zamasu in the manga. SSJB Goku already hit Zamasu in the previous chapters, but this does not mean that is strong as him. Again, in this chapter Goku is exhausted in the end and he really did nothing to him.

But like i said, is better to wait the chapter.

The fact SSJB Goku blasted a hole through Merged Zamasu was already nonsense as it is. Merged Zamasu should have tanked that shit. But, yeah, I'll wait for the full chapter to be released before I come to a judgement but it's not looking good. I fear the power scaling may have really gone off the rails in the manga.

I'm not so sure about that:
[spoiler][/spoiler]
Also, I was mistaken. Future Trunks actually healed Goku and Goku just suddenly gained the ability to master SSJB, coincidently.

Keep in mind that Merged Zamasu in the manga is only equivalent to initial Merged Zamasu in the anime. He's not on Vegetto's level until his second or third power up.

It doesn't make sense at all for Goku to be stronger just for being healed. Why the fuck didn't Trunks use the ability on Gowasu?

Apparently, Goku can seemingly suddenly mastered SSJB from Future Trunks giving him his physical power and healing him. And because of that his strength spikes. It's nonsense. Especially since Future Trunks is as best SSJ3 Majin Boo arc tier. I'm guessing the gap in strength between SSJB Goku and Merged Zamasu is not that big. But it begs the question as to why Goku and Vegeta even bothered to fuse? It also makes you wonder how strong Vegetto really is. Because if Base Vegetto was able to take off a chunk of Merged Zamasu's upper body, then he's got to be at least as strong as SSJB Goku, considering he was able to blast a hole through him.

Trunks restoring Goku is not the thing that makes him master the SSB, Vegeta says something about 100% before that, doesn't he? No way Goku is in pair to Vegetto, Vegetto crushed MZ and we haven’t seen this with Goku at all. He looks in his limit in the last panel.

[ZombieVito]

Apparently, Goku can seemingly suddenly mastered SSJB from Future Trunks giving him his physical power and healing him. And because of that his strength spikes. It's nonsense. Especially since Future Trunks is as best SSJ3 Majin Boo arc tier. I'm guessing the gap in strength between SSJB Goku and Merged Zamasu is not that big. But it begs the question as to why Goku and Vegeta even bothered to fuse? It also makes you wonder how strong Vegetto really is. Because if Base Vegetto was able to take off a chunk of Merged Zamasu's upper body, then he's got to be at least as strong as SSJB Goku, considering he was able to blast a hole through him.

Is it confirmed that Trunks gave Goku his power? Because that will explain Goku's power increase.

Every time a fighter gets power from another person, that power is not added but multiplied.

[ekrolo2]

Apparently, Goku can seemingly suddenly mastered SSJB from Future Trunks giving him his physical power and healing him. And because of that his strength spikes. It's nonsense. Especially since Future Trunks is as best SSJ3 Majin Boo arc tier. I'm guessing the gap in strength between SSJB Goku and Merged Zamasu is not that big. But it begs the question as to why Goku and Vegeta even bothered to fuse? It also makes you wonder how strong Vegetto really is. Because if Base Vegetto was able to take off a chunk of Merged Zamasu's upper body, then he's got to be at least as strong as SSJB Goku, considering he was able to blast a hole through him.

Is it confirmed that Trunks gave Goku his power? Because that will explain Goku's power increase.

Every time a fighter gets power from another person, that power is not added but multiplied.

Shouldn't that have made Piccolo a fucktillion times stronger than 100% Namek Freeza?

[ZombieVito]

Apparently, Goku can seemingly suddenly mastered SSJB from Future Trunks giving him his physical power and healing him. And because of that his strength spikes. It's nonsense. Especially since Future Trunks is as best SSJ3 Majin Boo arc tier. I'm guessing the gap in strength between SSJB Goku and Merged Zamasu is not that big. But it begs the question as to why Goku and Vegeta even bothered to fuse? It also makes you wonder how strong Vegetto really is. Because if Base Vegetto was able to take off a chunk of Merged Zamasu's upper body, then he's got to be at least as strong as SSJB Goku, considering he was able to blast a hole through him.

Is it confirmed that Trunks gave Goku his power? Because that will explain Goku's power increase.

Every time a fighter gets power from another person, that power is not added but multiplied.

Shouldn't that have made Piccolo a fucktillion times stronger than 100% Namek Freeza?

Not really. They were tired and also gave power to the Genkidama. At best Piccolo surpassed Vegeta with that kick.

[ekrolo2]

Is it confirmed that Trunks gave Goku his power? Because that will explain Goku's power increase.

Every time a fighter gets power from another person, that power is not added but multiplied.

Shouldn't that have made Piccolo a fucktillion times stronger than 100% Namek Freeza?

Not really. They were tired and also gave power to the Genkidama. At best Piccolo surpassed Vegeta with that kick.

They actually don't give power to the Genkidama and unless everyone's powers dropped into the low tripple digits, there's no way Piccolo's power multiplied by Krillin and Gohan wouldn't let him kill Freeza.

[TheSaiyanGod]

It doesn't contradict anything about what we previously see. SSJB Goku lands a solid punch on Merged Zamasu. He punches him so hard it even leaves a huge bruise on Merged Zamasu's face and it even makes him bleed a little. There's no way in hell he would be have been able to do that if he isn't as a strong as Merged Zamasu, by virtue, as power as SSJB Vegetto..

Vegetto is far above to Merged Zamasu in the manga. SSJB Goku already hit Zamasu in the previous chapters, but this does not mean that is strong as him. Again, in this chapter Goku is exhausted in the end and he really did nothing to him.

But like i said, is better to wait the chapter.

The fact SSJB Goku blasted a hole through Merged Zamasu was already nonsense as it is. Merged Zamasu should have tanked that shit. But, yeah, I'll wait for the full chapter to be released before I come to a judgement but it's not looking good. I fear the power scaling may have really gone off the rails in the manga.

I'm not so sure about that:
[spoiler][/spoiler]
Also, I was mistaken. Future Trunks actually healed Goku and Goku just suddenly gained the ability to master SSJB, coincidently.

Keep in mind that Merged Zamasu in the manga is only equivalent to initial Merged Zamasu in the anime. He's not on Vegetto's level until his second or third power up.

It doesn't make sense at all for Goku to be stronger just for being healed. Why the fuck didn't Trunks use the ability on Gowasu?

Apparently, Goku can seemingly suddenly mastered SSJB from Future Trunks giving him his physical power and healing him. And because of that his strength spikes. It's nonsense. Especially since Future Trunks is as best SSJ3 Majin Boo arc tier. I'm guessing the gap in strength between SSJB Goku and Merged Zamasu is not that big. But it begs the question as to why Goku and Vegeta even bothered to fuse? It also makes you wonder how strong Vegetto really is. Because if Base Vegetto was able to take off a chunk of Merged Zamasu's upper body, then he's got to be at least as strong as SSJB Goku, considering he was able to blast a hole through him.

Zamasu was clearly caught distracted by Goku's Kamehameha.
He could not even touch Kaioshin's apprentice. That is, he was much inferior.

We still do not know if Goku even surpassed Vegeta
And if he mastered the SSB form, his rival could do the same

[ZombieVito]

Shouldn't that have made Piccolo a fucktillion times stronger than 100% Namek Freeza?

Not really. They were tired and also gave power to the Genkidama. At best Piccolo surpassed Vegeta with that kick.

They actually don't give power to the Genkidama and unless everyone's powers dropped into the low tripple digits, there's no way Piccolo's power multiplied by Krillin and Gohan wouldn't let him kill Freeza.

Chapter: 315 (DBZ 121), P5.4, P10.5
Context: as Piccolo heads to help Goku against fourth form Freeza
Piccolo: “Gohan! Kuririn! Give me your remaining ki! Alright! That’s enough. Leave a little ki for yourselves!”

I couldn't find the other quote but Kuririn does say it takes energy from them too.

Piccolo's energy doesn't get multiplied, the energy itself does and then gets added to him. That's my take anyway.

[Lord Beerus]

I think I may have been feeding you guys wrong info. Future Trunks doesn't actually give Goku his strength. He just restores Goku's strength to its full potential by healing him. He doesn't actually make him more powerful. Here's what is stated in the chapter:

Vegeta: Wait Trunks, if you can only restore our physical power for one time then do it to Kakarot.
Trunks: Why?
Vegeta: The only one who can fight in SSJB against Zamasu on an equal footing isnt me but Kakarot.

Trunks: Goku's amazing... he can actually fight with Zamasu head on.
Vegeta: Kakarot can control the overflowing power of blue and contain it. (at least something like this, Vegeta's saying the power of Blue overflows and comes out, but Goku can contain it)
Trunks: ?
Vegeta: The weakness of blue where you can only fight to your full potential in a short while.... Kakarot overcame it.
Trunks: Then... right now Goku is?
Vegeta: He's constantly fighting at a 100%... he's perfected Super Saiyan Blue.

So... yeah. Future Trunks didn't technically make Goku any more powerful. He just healed him and it's suddenly revealed Goku mastered Super Saiyan Blue.

[ZombieVito]

I think I may have been feeding you guys wrong info. Future Trunks doesn't actually give Goku his strength. He just restore Goku's strength it to its full potential by healing him. He doesn't actually make him more powerful. Here's what is stated in chapter:

Vegeta: Wait Trunks, if you can only restore our physical power for one time then do it to Kakarot.
Trunks: Why?
Vegeta: The only one who can fight in SSJB against Zamasu on an equal footing isnt me but Kakarot.

Trunks: Goku's amazing... he can actually fight with Zamasu head on.
Vegeta: Kakarot can control the overflowing power of blue and contain it. (at least something like this, Vegeta's saying the power of Blue overflows and comes out, but Goku can contain it)
Trunks: ?
Vegeta: The weakness of blue where you can only fight to your full potential in a short while.... Kakarot overcame it.
Trunks: Then... right now Goku is?
Vegeta: He's constantly fighting at a 100%... he's perfected Super Saiyan Blue.

So... yeah. Future Trunks didn't technically make Goku any more powerful. He just healed him and it's suddenly revealed Goku mastered Super Saiyan Blue.

Yeah, this is bullshit. At least in the anime Goku overclocked the Kamehameha and has Kaioken too.

[DBZ Macky]

Is it true that Toyotarou said that Vegetto is stronger than Beerus in the Napoli Comic Con? Or does he only surpass him when he charges the Final Kamehameha?