Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
Krillin is caught in the Cultivars suicide attack, as opposed to Yamcha. In revenge, Yamcha attempts to replicate what Krillin accomplished and attacks the remaining Saibamen. Can he pull it off? Also...
Tenshinhan and Yamcha (leg is 100% healed) during the King Piccolo arc (if it has to be clarified) vs. Drum.
- I reckon Yamcha would destroy a few Saibamen with his Extra Large Spirit Ball.
- I think Tien and Yamcha could take Drum, if they gang up on him properly.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
Krillin is caught in the Cultivars suicide attack, as opposed to Yamcha. In revenge, Yamcha attempts to replicate what Krillin accomplished and attacks the remaining Saibamen. Can he pull it off?
He attacks one and loses. We saw this fight.
Tenshinhan and Yamcha (leg is 100% healed) during the King Piccolo arc (if it has to be clarified) vs. Drum.
Yamcha is one-shot fodder. He's completely irrelevant. Drum accidentally kills Yamcha at the very beginning with a light slap, and then he and Tenshinhan have the same fight they did in the manga.
- I reckon Yamcha would destroy a few Saibamen with his Extra Large Spirit Ball.
That technique isn't a thing.
I don't really see Drum being so much more powerful than Ten that him + Yamcha would still lose.
Drum had Ten beat in, like, four hits. Yamcha is so much weaker than Ten that he was said to be at the same level that Goku was when he initially arrived, only for Goku to power up, humiliate Krillin (who is stronger than Yamcha), power up again, and fight evenly with Tenshinhan. What difference is he supposed to make?
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
In Brightest Day wrote:There is so much wrong in that post I don't even know where to begin. Someone is going on my ignore list.
You're welcome to reply, if you have any counterarguments or explanation for why I'm "wrong" Judging by your response, though, I presume you don't have any.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
Krillin is caught in the Cultivars suicide attack, as opposed to Yamcha. In revenge, Yamcha attempts to replicate what Krillin accomplished and attacks the remaining Saibamen. Can he pull it off?
He attacks one and loses. We saw this fight.
In a one-on-one fight he overpowered the Saibamen. I honestly do not think he needed his Kamehameha to finish that fight. He was issued a 1,480 fighting power for a reason.
And we didn't see what kind of things he learned over the past year, since he died pretty damn quickly. He could have improved his Spirit Ball well enough to take on all 5 remaining Saibamen without too much struggle. It should be indicated as well that these Z fighters do rival each other.
"Lord Beers, what are those?? Do they taste like root beer?" ~ Goku
In a one-on-one fight he overpowered the Saibamen. I honestly do not think he needed his Kamehameha to finish that fight. He was issued a 1,480 fighting power for a reason.
He hit it with a Kamehameha, then the Saibaman shrugged it off and suicide bombed him.
I don't even think the Saibamen NEED their kamikaze explosions to take him out, though. Going by official power levels, as well as his fight with the one Saibamen, two should be enough if they're limited to regular combat, and they attack at the same time.
And we didn't see what kind of things he learned over the past year, since he died pretty damn quickly. He could have improved his Spirit Ball well enough to take on all 5 remaining Saibamen without too much struggle. It should be indicated as well that these Z fighters do rival each other.
So, your reason for Yamcha winning is "well, he COULD have this super technique that he never ever showed at any time in the manga"?
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:Kuririn [Mecha arc] vs. EoZ Tenshinhan
Tenshinhan wins.
This is what I'm picturing after the Android arc.. Krillin retired from training and fighting almost entirely, and Tenshinhan continued light/moderate training. I also believe in both Android and Buu arcs he was stronger than Krillin. The only reason Krillin was briefly stronger in the Freeza arc was his little zenkai boost.
"Lord Beers, what are those?? Do they taste like root beer?" ~ Goku
"Dragon Ball once became a thing of the past to me, but after that, I got angry about the live action movie, re-wrote an entire movie script, and now I'm complaining about the quality of the new TV anime. It seems Dragon Ball has grown on me so much that I can't leave it alone." - Akira Toriyama on Dragon Ball Super
Ginyu effortlessly stomps. He has a power level of around 100k while in movie 1 Garlic has a PL only in the hundreds (it's around 1k when he transforms). Not sure about the power levels in the Garlic jr saga though.
"I will literally dress as Goku and walk around jumping up and down, pretending to fly, in public if this ever gets an official release"
Ginyu effortlessly stomps. He has a power level of around 100k while in movie 1 Garlic has a PL only in the hundreds (it's around 1k when he transforms). Not sure about the power levels in the Garlic jr saga though.
I'm sure he's referring to post-Freeza Garlic Jr. who should be stronger than 2nd form Freeza.
Piccolo was 1,200,000 during the Freeza fight, and I imagine Piccolo achieves near 2,000,000 at this point. I don't know how much time passed, but if it's anywhere in the realm of 1 year, then yeah.
Regular Garlic Jr. (before bulking up) should be around 1st form Frieza, who's also much stronger than Ginyu alone.
"Lord Beers, what are those?? Do they taste like root beer?" ~ Goku
This is what I'm picturing after the Android arc.. Krillin retired from training and fighting almost entirely, and Tenshinhan continued light/moderate training. I also believe in both Android and Buu arcs he was stronger than Krillin. The only reason Krillin was briefly stronger in the Freeza arc was his little zenkai boost.
Kuririn is stronger than Tenshinhan in every arc. It's blatantly stated by Yamcha and Toriyama that Kuririn is the strongest Earthling male.
singsing wrote:
What there are plenty of beings who could destroy SMP1M. And with actual feats.
The Spectre entered the Source Wall once and absorbed some of its power and that basically made him become one with the universe and almost one with The Presence (god).
This Superman also did that and studied and gained power from the Source.
Not only that, but this Superman also has the powers of the 5th dimension imps, who are some of the most powerful beings in the DC universe and capable of destroying dimensions and creating universes in a second simply by wishing it.
That alone already puts him as one of the most powerful beings in DC universe, but, to top it off, he spent dozens of centuries collecting powers and abilities from all over the universe and spent 15.000 years in a Super Sun to increase exponentially all of the powers that he got and I already mentioned.
So, sure, he lacks feats because he only appeared in basically one story, but what we know of him puts him safely in the top ranks. You say plenty of beings who could destroy him? I only see a handful would could be argued and that's all. But whatever you say.
And obviously Goku wouldn't be able to anything to him.
This is what I'm picturing after the Android arc.. Krillin retired from training and fighting almost entirely, and Tenshinhan continued light/moderate training. I also believe in both Android and Buu arcs he was stronger than Krillin. The only reason Krillin was briefly stronger in the Freeza arc was his little zenkai boost.
Kuririn is stronger than Tenshinhan in every arc. It's blatantly stated by Yamcha and Toriyama that Kuririn is the strongest Earthling male.
In practically all of Dragon Ball up to the 23rd Budokai, he's stronger than Krillin. And when fighting the Saibamen he's issued a higher power level than Krillin.
"Lord Beers, what are those?? Do they taste like root beer?" ~ Goku
This is what I'm picturing after the Android arc.. Krillin retired from training and fighting almost entirely, and Tenshinhan continued light/moderate training. I also believe in both Android and Buu arcs he was stronger than Krillin. The only reason Krillin was briefly stronger in the Freeza arc was his little zenkai boost.
Kuririn is stronger than Tenshinhan in every arc. It's blatantly stated by Yamcha and Toriyama that Kuririn is the strongest Earthling male.
What? No. Up all the way to Namek, Tenshinhan was always stronger. And after that, the manga doesn't even tells us if Tenshihan's training at Kaio was enough to keep up with Krillin's advances or not. We are simply left wondering and then there is a line by Yamcha suggesting that Krillin is stronger by saying that he is the strongest human in the buu arc. That's all.
Without that one line, everyone would simply interpret Tenshinhan as the stronger one in the entire series because there's not one single piece of info suggesting otherwise in any moment besides that one line.
Last edited by rereboy on Sat Jan 24, 2015 10:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Yeah, and then Guru unlocks Kuririn's potential and he remains the strongest human for the rest of the series. When I said every arc, I meant after saiyan arc, should've mentioned that, my bad.
What? No. Up all the way to Namek, Tenshinhan was always stronger. And after that, the manga doesn't even tells us if Tenshihan's training at Kaio was enough to keep up with Krillin's advances or not. We are simply left wondering and then there is a line by Yamcha suggesting that Krillin is stronger by saying that he is the strongest human in the buu arc. That's all.
Toriyama literally says Kuririn's the strongest earthling male, and so does Yamcha. There's nothing suggesting Tenshinhan > Kuririn.
SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:
Toriyama literally says Kuririn's the strongest earthling male, and so does Yamcha. There's nothing suggesting Tenshinhan > Kuririn.
So? I'm not saying that you should think that Tenshinhan is the stronger one in the Buu arc. I'm simply demonstrating how little sense it makes to claim that Krillin is stronger in most of the series or all of the series. Like I said, anyone not paying attention to that line wouldn't even think that Krillin was stronger than him in any moment of the series.
Last edited by rereboy on Sat Jan 24, 2015 10:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
How does it make little sense? There was never any statement suggesting Tenshinhan surpassed Kuririn, and there are no comparable feats, so Yamcha's statement and the author's statement are all we have to go by.
There's also Kuririn thinking he'll place in the top 5 in the Tenkaichi Budokai in the Boo arc. He later reveals he couldn't find Tenshinhan. So basically, Kuririn wanted to invite Tenshinhan to the tournament, and still thought he would place in top 5 if Piccolo didn't enter [18/Goku/Vegeta/Gohan/Kuririn]
SSJ2FutureGohan wrote:How does it make little sense? There was never any statement suggesting Tenshinhan surpassed Kuririn, and there are no comparable feats, so Yamcha's statement and the author's statement are all we have to go by.
There's also Kuririn thinking he'll place in the top 5 in the Tenkaichi Budokai in the Boo arc. He later reveals he couldn't find Tenshinhan. So basically, Kuririn wanted to invite Tenshinhan to the tournament, and still thought he would place in top 5 if Piccolo didn't enter [18/Goku/Vegeta/Gohan/Kuririn]
You are not understanding my point.
1 - Krillin only surpassed Tenshinhan in Namek so, for most of Dragon Ball, he wasn't superior to Tenshinhan. Therefore, saying that Krillin is superior to him in most of Dragon Ball or in all of Dragon Ball doesn't make much sense.
2 - But, not only did Krillin only surpass Tenshinhan in Namek, also the only reason we even know about that is because of one line all the way in the Buu saga. There is actually nothing in the Namek saga or the Cell saga letting us know that Krillin surpassed and remained ahead of Tenshinhan. That means that there is nothing giving us a impression in those arcs that Krillin surpassed and remained ahead of Tenshinhan. Which means that anyone not paying close attention to the line (aka most of the fans) will easily miss the implications and will not review those impressions. In conclusion, fans that pay attention to that line and fans that don't pay attention to that line will naturally say that Tenshinhan was stronger in most of the series and that Tenshinhan was always stronger than Krillin, respectively. What no one will say is that Krillin was stronger for most of the series or in all of the series, no matter if they pay attention to the line or not, which makes your statement seem like it makes even less sense.
I'm not trying to say Kuririn was stronger in the earlier arcs.
All I'm saying is after he got his potential unlocked on Namek, he became and remained the strongest human.
I can see how some people could miss these implications or statements, since Tenshinhan is always seen training and we Kuririn slacking off.
It just annoys me that the authorliterally stated Kuririn is stronger, and even when you bring it up in a debate there are people who still believe Tenshinhan is stronger.
