Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

[dhaval_dongre]

Any news on which episode Otsuka's gonna be doing ? We last saw Karasawa during 44 with Wanpack providing the key animation. So will we see them again for 50, considering its an important episode ?

Also I have some interesting info regarding Crunchyroll and Super. Kenxyro, the guy who does the subbing for Super, was chatting with one of the guys from Crunchyroll on Twitter. So he asked him that when were we gonna see Super on Crunchy since its been almost a year now since the series started. So the guy from Crunchyroll said that he cannot comment on anything until its officially announced. So its NOT CONFIRMED yet, but definitely something is going on behind the scenes. I am not surprised that we haven't seen Super on Crunchy yet because I think Funimation might wanna get the rights not just for the dub but also for the sub on their streaming service.

[Ajay]

Ken Xyro's an idiot and I'd be very very very surprised if FUNi ever let the online rights for Super go to anyone but themselves exclusively. All that comment will mean is that CrunchyRoll won't comment on any shows until they're ready to announce it officially. I don't see any underlying message there.

[dhaval_dongre]

Ken Xyro's an idiot and I'd be very very very surprised if FUNi ever let the online rights for Super go to anyone but themselves exclusively. All that comment will mean is that CrunchyRoll won't comment on any shows until they're ready to announce it officially. I don't see any underlying message there.

LMAO
Ya, must be the case then.

[cuartas]

Being honest, animation wise, DBS is kinda mediocre, I mean if we reached a point where "we" praise Tate work due the "fluid animation and the thing with the camera angles" but the art have off model moments, weird face expressions and a far different style from akira (don't forget ep 5), welp, there's something wrong here.

If this is the case, why there's no 10 min length youtube videos showing the best Uchiyama shots in DBZ just like Tate? as far as I know Uchiyama was described as a "fluid, dynamic and fast paced animation but lack of detail" just like Tate is described, the difference here is that uchiyama is not praised but criticised for his cheap animation and tate is placed on the top of animators in DBS.

If you ask me, 44 should be the norm in this anime, art and animation was almost perfect, in a level of a show worth to export to europe, north and south america (that may happen anytime) etc, etc, but overall, we lowered the bar for the most popular anime

[Ajay]

If this is the case, why there's no 10 min length youtube videos showing the best Uchiyama shots in DBZ just like Tate? as far as I know Uchiyama was described as a "fluid, dynamic and fast paced animation but lack of detail" just like Tate is described, the difference here is that uchiyama is not praised but criticised for his cheap animation and tate is placed on the top of animators in DBS.

Uchiyama was never described in that manner because he wasn't a good animator. Any praise levied at Uchiyama-lead episodes would have been directed at the likes of key animators under him: Tai'ichirou Ohara, for example, who actually does have 10-minute YouTube videos dedicated to his work. Uchiyama is heavily criticised because of his proportionally-off and unappealing art style, which much like Ebisawa's, was more of a detriment to the talents underneath him than it was a benefit. Look at how good Ebisawa episodes started looking once he let Toshiyuki Kan’no do his thing uncorrected. There isn't any hypocrisy going on here as you seem to be implying.

Being honest, animation wise, DBS is kinda mediocre, I mean if we reached a point where "we" praise Tate work due the "fluid animation and the thing with the camera angles" but the art have off model moments, weird face expressions and a far different style from akira (don't forget ep 5), welp, there's something wrong here.

Super's animation is mediocre, and I don't think anyone here is going to push you on that, but pretending that we're somehow lowering our expectations because we enjoy Tate's Hosoda-inspired work, as rushed as it may be, shows a lack of understanding about what makes Tate so good in the first place. There's nothing "wrong" there, and bringing up episode 5 is asinine at this point. We know what happened there, we know it was an isolated case, so let's not waste anyone's time by pretending it's at all relevant at this point.

Claims that Tate is somehow drawing a world away from Yamamuro's models boil down to pure hyperbole, or fans are going by his action scenes that are rushed thanks to Super's silly schedule. As I said, Tate is hugely inspired by the likes of Mamoru Hosoda, Sushio, and Hiroyuki Imaishi -- if you aren't familiar with their work and their philosophy, you're probably not going to get Tate. His work when given the proper time and effort is above and beyond the large majority of animators out there. There's a reason he's a love child at Toei and why he's given hugely important episodes in Super. It's because he's good. Really good. And ultimately a large majority of people within the industry or with an understanding of animation genuinely get that. Fans after rigidly on-model work aren't ever going to appreciate him, and that's a shame, but to pretend he lacks talent because he doesn't embody the creatively-void soul of Yamamuro is silly.

44's reputation with the fandom is based on the fact it's pristinely on-model and has a couple of okay action scenes. It's a good episode and Karasawa is one of my favourite supervisors on the show, but you're comparing cheese and chocolate here. Karasawa and Tate aren't after the same end results, and if you're going to ask any serious animation fan which is the more interesting episode to look at, they're going to pick Tate every single time. That's not to say Karasawa hasn't done interesting work -- he most certainly has -- but we have yet to see him flourish in the same way Tate has week by week.

I'm not going to pretend Tate's animation on Super is perfect. It's not. It's rough and often scribbled out quickly in an attempt to provide interesting animation on a horrific schedule. But man, he's doing more for the series than anyone else. Comparing him to Uchiyama is so unbelievably disingenuous, and to imply that we're somehow settling for less shows a fundamental lack of understanding.

Welcome to the forum, by the way.

[Sodhi]

I heard there is a one piece special coming soon. That might take some key animators. Hopefully its not much.

[dhaval_dongre]

I heard there is a one piece special coming soon. That might take some key animators. Hopefully its not much.

What about the staff from the One Piece Gold movie ?

[Lord Beerus]

I heard there is a one piece special coming soon. That might take some key animators. Hopefully its not much.

What about the staff from the One Piece Gold movie ?

I'm certain that movie must be finished by now in terms of production. So the staff from that movie would be available.

[dhaval_dongre]

I heard there is a one piece special coming soon. That might take some key animators. Hopefully its not much.

What about the staff from the One Piece Gold movie ?

I'm certain that movie must be finished by now in terms of production. So the staff from that movie would be available.

So they can work on the One Piece special and some future Super episodes right ?!

[Sodhi]

Not really. It all depends on where an animator is scheduled to work or committed. If they already have commitments to work somewhere else, then that's what they would do. So its really hard to know which animator would work on the special.

[ParkerAL]

With longrunning shows, you'll always have less than stellar art on occasion. That's unfortunately the nature of the beast and has been that way for years upon years. Even shows like Yu Yu Hakusho or Naruto that are often praised heavily for their animation have several episodes that are less than great. 2011's Hunter x Hunter adaptation is often brought up as an example of a "perfect" long-running show, but there are many episodes -- especially early on -- where the quality drops. It's to a lesser extent thanks to the talents on board and a solid schedule, but it's there.

A bit of side comment here, but this is very true. I used to obsessively praise the 2011 Hunter x Hunter anime, but upon revisiting early episodes now that the show is airing on Toonami, I've been noticing a lot more corner-cutting tricks than I remember seeing the first time through. I still love the series and hold it above most shonen adaptations, but its flaws are far more apparent to me now that I've educated myself about animation with threads like this one. There are a few standout moments in the first batch of episodes, but Madhouse didn't really hit its stride until the Heavens Arena arc. From then on, it got better and better.

I can only hope Dragon Ball Super goes through a similar, if far more drastic, transition.

[Ajay]

Yeah, it definitely took them a while to start bringing consistently interesting visuals across, and I think it's also down to the tone they initially tried to take. I genuinely believe it hampered the show.

Hunter x Hunter isn't a blistering success with the general shonen demographic despite running in Weekly Shonen Jump. Surveys have shown that a large part of its audience are adults, meaning it was often hard to push the series at younger kids in the magazine, instead relying on volume sales later down the line.

It's widely acknowledged that Madhouse's adaptation was a real genuine effort at pushing the show onto younger children, which is why the colour palette is so bright, and the attitude and portrayal of violence and despair never really rears its head til later down the line. Heck, you've got the incredibly kid-friendly Hunterpedia segments to really hammer home who the show is aimed at. It's a stark comparison to the 1999 version that not only establishes the tone in Togashi's manga right from the start, it also amplifies it with some darker twists in the story, alongside much more atmospheric art direction.

The 2011 series originally aired on Sunday mornings to reasonable success, but it was eventually moved to Tuesday nights to more faithfully adapt the source material, and it was there we saw the series finally begin to bring out the good stuff. Thankfully!

Super could definitely benefit from better art direction on the whole. I totally understand the complaints about the show being "too bright". Nobody's asking for gloom and doom, especially during happy scenes, but something less garish would be nice. They've been absolutely nailing the future scenes' tone, so that's nice, at least!

[Avok]

That last clip of Gon's Jajanken is a prime example of what I consider a stunning scene. The camera angles, the colours, the music. Everything comes together in an amazing way.

You see the wind and the aura that the attack creates, the environment moves... It's the type of scene that would fit in Dragon Ball (in an attack or in a transformation), yet we haven't seen something like that, not even in the movies.

[Sodhi]

This is the only one scene I found in recent DB material that I consider pretty good.
https://sakuga.yshi.org/post/show/4307/ ... n_ball_z-d

[Lord Beerus]

This is the only one scene I found in recent DB material that I consider pretty good.
https://sakuga.yshi.org/post/show/4307/ ... n_ball_z-d

I think there have been more moments than just that.

[Ajay]

Eh, I wouldn't say they're all spectacular. Tate's 26 and Onishi's 14 are about the only ones that stack up properly. There's also Watanabe's cut in F that's nice. That Shida cut really is something special though.

[kinisking]

This is the only one scene I found in recent DB material that I consider pretty good.
https://sakuga.yshi.org/post/show/4307/ ... n_ball_z-d

I think there have been more moments than just that.

Much more than that too. Vegeta vs freeza, hit vs goku, cabba vs vegeta, episode 44 all had some pretty good stuff. Some stuff I would even call amazing. Pretty surprised that is the only one he finds at least pretty good.

[Avok]

Shida is one of the best animators at Toei. His fluid (or watery as I call it) style sits so well with the auras and clouds/smoke/attacks that are everywhere in Dragon Ball.

This scene, from the Toriko x Dragon Ball x One Piece crossover, is amazing (the quality of the video not so much).

[Hit!!]

I don't know about you guys, but i think that this weeks animation was quite shitty. Not episode 23 or 24 level, but the episode wasn't very good.

Yes, there were a couple of cool still shots, but most of the episode was stiff as fuck and felt pretty rushed. When Trunks and Goku transformed into ssj before fighting, that looked really awkard.

[Grimlock]

That was because Goku and Trunks went Super Saiyan 2, not regular Super Saiyan. But I do agree the animation in this episode was not even close to be epic as the last episode. Hope next episode be another team of animators because if Trunks goes to Super Saiyan 2, I'd like to see real change in his hair and how it looks in the anime (as we already know how Super Saiyan 2 Future Trunks is through Heroes and Dokkan Battle).