Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Resurrection 'F'"

[Kaboom]

The lack of quality television that Dragon Ball GT is aside, 'cash-grab' is such a horrendously bad attempt at demeaning the worth of Dragon Ball GT. Everything about Dragon Ball is a cash-grab, including these past two movies.

Well, there's a bigger argument there, but the issue is the nature of these "cash grabs". To clarify, GT was a "cash grab" and nothing else. At least these "cash grabs" have Toriyama trying to do something new and interesting, from his mind; not Toei Animation's questionable writing staff.

For the record, I didn't mean it as a put-down (even saying I like GT in the same post). It's just an apt description.

[VegettoEX]

If you're not talking about Revival of "F", you're in the wrong thread.

If you're not discussing the movie politely with your fellow fans, you're in the wrong community.

If you're lodging personal attacks at anyone, you're going to receive an account strike. These add up to temporary/permanent bans, which revoke access to the ENTIRETY of the Kanzenshuu website. Take a step back to re-evalute what it is you're looking to get out of your time here.

[Captain Space]

My last post isn't showing up...

(Did I say something wrong and it got removed? Sorry if so. Didn't mean to offend anyone, and I've been trying to respect opposing opinions throughout this discussion. I dunno, maybe it's just a site glitch, though.)

[Gianchio]

I didn't like Vegeta's post on Bulma's blog. I find that it is a bit out of character. I mean, when Freeza was around Vegeta didn't even care too much about Goku. Yeah, now Freeza is weak, but Vegeta should be at least a little interested.

[fadeddreams5]

Why do so many people share this logic below?

Villain returns = fanfic


I just don't get it. American comics and movies do it all the times. What counts is how you use that character to create a good and entertaining story without it boiling down to mere fanservice. I understand why people may feel FnF, in particular, is shaping up to be like a fanfic, but i've been seeing this argument since Frieza was announced to be coming back.-.-

[Suupaa Gohan 2]

Marked for deletion.

[Dyno]

Why do so many people share this logic below?

Villain returns = fanfic


I just don't get it. American comics and movies do it all the times. What counts is how you use that character to create a good and entertaining story without it boiling down to mere fanservice. I understand why people may feel FnF, in particular, is shaping up to be like a fanfic, but i've been seeing this argument since Freeza was announced to be coming back.-.-

Dragon Ball needs something new... Battle of Gods was excellent for that reason. The franchise has been put in hiatus for long enough and when it comes back... It also brings an old villain? Come on... It is boring, specially Freeza who already came back in Movie 12, an OVA and Dragon Ball GT. His "new" design also does not help...

[Captain Space]

A major problem is that if this movie is a lot like BoG...half of us will be like, "See? I was right! It was amazing!" and the other half will be like, "See? I was right! It sucked!" and everyone will take it as proof that their predictions were accurate.

Of course, I hope it's good enough that everyone likes it, but people being people that seems unlikely.

[JulieYBM]

The lack of quality television that Dragon Ball GT is aside, 'cash-grab' is such a horrendously bad attempt at demeaning the worth of Dragon Ball GT. Everything about Dragon Ball is a cash-grab, including these past two movies.

Well, there's a bigger argument there, but the issue is the nature of these "cash grabs". To clarify, GT was a "cash grab" and nothing else. At least these "cash grabs" have Toriyama trying to do something new and interesting, from his mind; not Toei Animation's questionable writing staff.

That's making the argument that only one member of the staff defines what is or isn't merely a cash-grab, though. It's no doubt Kami to Kami and Fukkatsu no F are the results of Toriyama having a boatload of fun, but his contributions are merely the script. Dialogue is only one element of storytelling, not the sole defining element. Films and television are not defined by their story, they defined by everything after the story, the 'telling'.

I definitely agree Kasai Osamu and Matsui Aya (writers for Japanese cartoons are freelancers who work on multiple series for multiple studios all the time) did a horrible job leading Dragon Ball GT, but their influence is not the only element of what makes Dragon Ball GT good or bad. Similarly here, Kami to Kami and Fukkatsu no F are not defined merely by their scripts. This forthcoming film will most definitely have a supercharged set of dialogue but that isn't going to stop the rest of the film from suffering from the same sort of mentality that gave us the dumbed down Dragon Ball GT, Bishoujo Senshi Sailor Moon: Sailor Stars or Dragon Ball Kai. Or a Fukkatsu no F rushed out the door during a time when the industry is supremely busy and led by an inexperienced director who has never shown much in the way of being an interesting storyteller before.

EDIT: I don't think I ever made the final point I was getting at. The bigger picture is: 'cash-grab' is--and I don't mean this to be an asshat--a shallow description. It's not very nitty-gritty and I think we all tend to--perhaps--get our brains tongue-twisted when we rely on those sorts of simplifications.

Words, how do I use them?

[Gianchio]

Why do so many people share this logic below?

Villain returns = fanfic


I just don't get it. American comics and movies do it all the times. What counts is how you use that character to create a good and entertaining story without it boiling down to mere fanservice. I understand why people may feel FnF, in particular, is shaping up to be like a fanfic, but i've been seeing this argument since Freeza was announced to be coming back.-.-

Well, the most famous DB Fan Manga (I think) it's DB Multiverse...and everyone wanted the multiverse in this movie. And they say that a returning villain is fan fiction...

[fadeddreams5]

Why do so many people share this logic below?

Villain returns = fanfic


I just don't get it. American comics and movies do it all the times. What counts is how you use that character to create a good and entertaining story without it boiling down to mere fanservice. I understand why people may feel FnF, in particular, is shaping up to be like a fanfic, but i've been seeing this argument since Freeza was announced to be coming back.-.-

Dragon Ball needs something new... Battle of Gods was excellent for that reason. The franchise has been put in hiatus for long enough and when it comes back... It also brings an old villain? Come on... It is boring, specially Freeza who already came back in Movie 12, an OVA and Dragon Ball GT. His "new" design also does not help...

Creating a new villain is not any more original than bringing back an old one. The creative part is how you use either to make a compelling story. Frieza may have returned multiple times before in non-canonical work, but he's a pivotal part of the DB lore, and could have brought so much to the table. Him, and the less popular Dr. Gero, as well. It's how you use them that matters.

Unfortunately, this film DOES seem like it's bringing him back for the sake of just action and fanservice, but this doesn't make it fanfictiony just because Frieza returned either.

[Gianchio]

Why do so many people share this logic below?

Villain returns = fanfic


I just don't get it. American comics and movies do it all the times. What counts is how you use that character to create a good and entertaining story without it boiling down to mere fanservice. I understand why people may feel FnF, in particular, is shaping up to be like a fanfic, but i've been seeing this argument since Freeza was announced to be coming back.-.-

Dragon Ball needs something new... Battle of Gods was excellent for that reason. The franchise has been put in hiatus for long enough and when it comes back... It also brings an old villain? Come on... It is boring, specially Freeza who already came back in Movie 12, an OVA and Dragon Ball GT. His "new" design also does not help...

I think a new villain would be useless. If you make him lose... well, most useless film ever. If you make him win... it would be useless as well, because it already happened in the last movie.
Can you compare that to an old (amazing) villain that returns and takes his revenge? I mean, think about it: Freeza will (probably) defeat Goku! That is a lot more interesting and incredible than (insert name here) of which nobody cares about winning or losing.

[baneofdemon22]

Just about everything created without his involvement has been mediocre to bad. That includes Episode of Bardock. Toriyama is the heart of DB. He's the one who understands the characters better then anyone else.

I think you forgot Dragon Ball Minus, which had his involvement and it has been really mediocre to bad.

And? Jaco was fantastic and Battle of Gods isn't just one of my favorite movies, it has two of my favorite antagonists in the series, by far. Minus is meh, but it's largely negligible.

Now I am really looking forward to Jaco in FnF! I haven't read the Jaco series yet. I agree that the antagonists are some of the best in the series. Personally, I think Battle of Gods blew away all the other DBZ movies in terms of quality. The only other movie I felt that they put effort into was the first Broly movie. However, I think "Yo! Son Goku and His Friends Return" might be my favorite entry in terms of new Dragon Ball content. I just loved how they showed Goku and Vegeta's relationship! I laugh every time I watch that food dispute at the end!

[Chuquita]

And that is exactly why I'm so excited they're sharing a plot line this time. :3

They barely got to interact in BOG.

[Dyno]

Creating a new villain is not any more original than bringing back an old one.

Oh, I think it is. Much better Towa and Mira than Freeza. They were the last epic villains that came out since Dragon Ball ended.

Unfortunately, this film DOES seem like it's bringing him back for the sake of just action and fanservice, but this doesn't make it fanfictiony just because Freeza returned either.

Well, if you bring someone because you listened to a song... Then that makes it fan-fictiony.

I think a new villain would be useless. If you make him lose... well, most useless film ever. If you make him win... it would be useless as well, because it already happened in the last movie.
Can you compare that to an old (amazing) villain that returns and takes his revenge? I mean, think about it: Freeza will (probably) defeat Goku! That is a lot more interesting and incredible than (insert name here) of which nobody cares about winning or losing.

The same for Freeza, if he dies, then this movie turns out to be the most useless of all, surpassing even those pretty utterly crap Movies 8, 10 and 11.

[sintzu]

Can you compare that to an old (amazing) villain that returns and takes his revenge? I mean, think about it: Freeza will (probably) defeat Goku!

Then get defeated by the unsung hero who also wants revenge.

Besides there will be more movies after this so we'll be getting multiple new villains.

[Low Tone G]

Can you compare that to an old (amazing) villain that returns and takes his revenge? I mean, think about it: Freeza will (probably) defeat Goku!

Then get defeated by the unsung hero who also wants revenge.

Besides there will be more movies after this so we'll be getting multiple new villains.

That is not confirmed yet.

[ArchedThunder]

Can you compare that to an old (amazing) villain that returns and takes his revenge? I mean, think about it: Freeza will (probably) defeat Goku!

Then get defeated by the unsung hero who also wants revenge.

Besides there will be more movies after this so we'll be getting multiple new villains.

That is not confirmed yet.

My hope is that this is the last film of this series and we'll get a new anime with Toriyama as a lead writer after this.

[fadeddreams5]

Oh, I think it is. Much better Towa and Mira than Freeza. They were the last epic villains that came out since Dragon Ball ended.

I have not played DBO or Xenoverse, but Towa does seem pretty cool. >.>

Well, if you bring someone because you listened to a song... Then that makes it fan-fictiony.

Not at all. Music is what inspires many writers to even make progress in their stories. It's pretty common. He heard the song, and ideas began to flow. Whether they're good or bad... I guess we'll just have to see.

[Gianchio]

Creating a new villain is not any more original than bringing back an old one.

Oh, I think it is. Much better Towa and Mira than Freeza. They were the last epic villains that came out since Dragon Ball ended.

Unfortunately, this film DOES seem like it's bringing him back for the sake of just action and fanservice, but this doesn't make it fanfictiony just because Freeza returned either.

Well, if you bring someone because you listened to a song... Then that makes it fan-fictiony.

A multiverse story or a Time distorted story is much, much more fan fiction than this