Did FUNimation overstep their bounds?

[penguintruth]

How is that out of character? It's Vegeta.

Because he literally went from flying off into the distance cheering and laughing about Goku's death and how he was going to be top dog, to suddenly reappearing without explanation, slumped against a tree being bummed out that he couldn't test his power against him, so much so that he helped the others figure out how to wish him back in the space of one fricken episode, like the previous episode never even happened.

Not to mention they had him say in that flashback that he knew Freeza blew up Planet Vegeta all along, even though he was pissed off in the show when he found out because he would've turned on Freeza long ago had he known that.

Having Vegeta suddenly be happy and acting like a cartoon supervillain because Goku and Freeza are dead and he's the strongest by default and how he's gonna take over the universe is pretty out of character for Vegeta. He'd never accept that, and as we saw in the actual story...he didn't.

That's still a pretty far cry from Goku's "I am the hope of the universe" speech or the thousand plus other blatant changes in the script Funimation did.

And that's just the script. The dub is rife with poor acting and garish character voices.

[kemuri07]

I like Nozawa, I honestly don't see the big deal about it.

I'd assume the English fans are accostumed to a "manly" Goku voice (Schemmel).

Nozawa sounds just about balanced, neither male nor female.

And, if you truly listen to the characters, it's not only Son Goku that makes the "kkkkkkkkkkkkkkk" noise others do to, in English it's like "arghrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr" (or similar). Big fuss FUNi fans do for no reason.

The FUNimation fans should be discussing their so beloved FUNi DBZ Dub and how it's so inaccurate.

The thing is, I don't think "Funimation fans" really give a shit either way. Probably because they're too busy actually enjoying the show.

And also, I really do dislike your attitude towards people with a preference for the English dub. It's the very reason why I hate fandom in general, and why I tend to stay clear of it. The fact that people think they're better than others because "they're more hardcore" or "they've seen the original version of this show" is such a childish way of looking at things, and only serves to bring down everyone else who happens to enjoy it.

Opinions of it aside, Evolution is another example of someone adapting Dragon Ball from scratch. Compared to the original manga and anime, it's wildly inaccurate. But let's say a German dub of Evolution changed the dialogue and characters even more (I don't know if there actually is a German dub or not). Regardless of whether they improved the movie or made it worse, the German viewers would not be given a chance to experience Evolution the way English speakers did, thanks to a "creative" German translator. Maybe some people are perfectly happy with that German dub as is, but it's a disservice to the entire concept of translating to say, "Who cares if it's inaccurate? The original American version of the movie sucked anyway."

Dude...whaaaa? Why the hell would anyone want to view Evolution "the way English speakers did?" That's a really bad comparison, especially considering that Evolutions is more of a complete re-imagining of the series (a shitty one at that). Complain all you want about Funi's DBZ dub, it still follows the major story arc beat-by-beat.

[Kendamu]

You seemed to have gotten stuck on the "Evolution" example and completely missed the point. Just replace "Evolution" with something relevant that you actually like if it helps.

[jjgp1112]

That's still a pretty far cry from Goku's "I am the hope of the universe" speech or the thousand plus other blatant changes in the script Funimation did.

And that's just the script. The dub is rife with poor acting and garish character voices.

I guess now would be a bad time to mention Goku being so concerned about the safety of the animals in Movie 5 and reviving a bird with his SUPA SAIYAN POWA like he was the messiah himself.

[kemuri07]

You seemed to have gotten stuck on the "Evolution" example and completely missed the point. Just replace "Evolution" with something relevant that you actually like if it helps.

No I understood it, I just thought using Evolutions was a really bad example. The thing is, I don't really expect an adaptation to be the exact same as the show's source of origin; any writer has to keep in mind of cultural boundaries when writing a specific language adaptation for a broad audience. And judging by how Funimation currently operates, there is nothing to suggest that they are a company willing to embark on any risk, especially when the anime industry in the 90s was nowhere near what it is now.

As I, as well as others, have already stated: The Funimation dub is a product of its time, where there was a precedent of companies taking these shows, and changing them to appeal to American school children. The quality of the dub, or whether children could handle an extremely foreign television show, is besides the point.

[OutlawTorn]

And also, I really do dislike your attitude towards people with a preference for the English dub. It's the very reason why I hate fandom in general, and why I tend to stay clear of it. The fact that people think they're better than others because "they're more hardcore" or "they've seen the original version of this show" is such a childish way of looking at things, and only serves to bring down everyone else who happens to enjoy it.

I agree. I have no problems watching the English dub, I prefer the original score but I'm not going to look down on people who prefer the Faulconer score because they are allowed to like what they like just as much as I am allowed to prefer watching DBZ in English rather than Japanese. I'm not saying it's better than the Japanese version, just that it's my preference. I've invested a rather sizable amount of money procuring the series on DVD, therefore I am just as entitled to be considered a "hardcore" fan as someone who purely watches the Japanese version.

I have no interest in getting bent out of shape because Goku said "I'm not" instead of "I ain't" or has a particularly cringe-worthy and cliche-filled speech when he turns Super Saiyan whereas the original version doesn't. Let me just enjoy how I like to watch DBZ without trying to make me out as an inferior fan, my preferences aren't going to damage the Japanese version or the enjoyment fans of the Japanese version get out of it.

People are sick of the "Over 9000!" meme? Well, enough of the elitist superiority complex some purists have. Regardless of which version we prefer, we all share one thing in common: we enjoy Dragon Ball and none of us are better or "more hardcore" than the rest because of which version we prefer or whether we like Masako Nozawa as Goku or not.

For the record, FUNimation isn't the only company which has altered a property, plenty of others have as well, even *gasp* Japanese companies. It doesn't make it right, but I'm sure there are other versions of DBZ which have made alterations even more extreme than FUNimation has. But I guess bashing FUNimation is the "cool" thing to do, even if they put out a quality product. (no, I don't include the DBZ season sets as a "quality" product, the widescreen cropping should never have happened under any circumstance)

[Kendamu]

I love how people interpret "FUNimation didn't translate the show properly" as "You're a poopy pants and your mother is a poopy pants, too, you dub-watching poopy pants!" Honestly, I have to wonder how people take 1980s foreign television so damn seriously in all the wrong ways.

Same goes for my "team" here. There's no reason to get so into trying to change someone's mind about DBZ. They're gonna watch the dub whether you like it or not. Yes, it's a horrible mess of a dub but this debate is just gonna make them want to watch it not only out of enjoyment, but also spite!

FUNimation's DBZ dub is a product of 1996 anime dubbing that didn't get the memo when it became safe to not be horrible at dubbing for television. Despite all that, millions of people enjoyed it because it was still a million times better and edgier than a large majority of American animation up to that point in time. Even after I learned the truth from DBZ Uncensored ages ago, I could still easily say that American DBZ was still a lot better than many other options at the time.

We're not going to kill the nostalgia machine no matter how hard we try. Let's Just hope they don't keep taking it personally when we say it's a bad example of how to dub anime.

[SylentEcho]

Well, if it weren't for Funi's Americanised dub, DBZ wouldn't have got all that famous everywhere. So, in some ways, I'd rather not have changed anything they did. I was really dissappointed that majority of people (anime fans included) have only seen DB/Z in English and regard it as one of they shittiest Anime's they've ever seen because they've watched FMA, Naruto etc in Japanese after the whole Japanese trend started.

It's really a pain to go about explaining to people that DBZ is a completely different show in Japanese.

[penguintruth]

Well, if it weren't for Funi's Americanised dub, DBZ wouldn't have got all that famous everywhere.

DBZ's popular in a whole lot of other countries without Funimation's help.

[Akumaito Beam]

Well, if it weren't for Funi's Americanised dub, DBZ wouldn't have got all that famous everywhere.

DBZ's popular in a whole lot of other countries without Funimation's help.

Deja vu all over again, eh gang?

[Puto]

Well, if it weren't for Funi's Americanised dub, DBZ wouldn't have got all that famous everywhere.

Most of the world got DBZ *before* FUNimation's dub ever existed.

[Rukura]

Well, if it weren't for Funi's Americanised dub, DBZ wouldn't have got all that famous everywhere.

Correction: Dragon Ball was already famous before a lot of countries were even watching Dragon Ball Z. (and, as mentioned above, FUNimation even existed as a company)

Because...you know...everyone else that was there before actually started at the beginning of the series and stuff.

[XanatosVanBadass]

^ Plus without all of the embarrassing changes Funimation applied to it (unless you count the Arab dub which I don't as that isn't a fair comparison).

Dubbies need to get off all that bullshit about what Funi did being a, "necessary evil," to make DBZ sell. DBZ succeeded DESPITE what was done to it in the US. Not because of it. This is objective.

[Innagadadavida]

That is not an objective statement. The objective truth is that there is no way to know if Dragon Ball would have been as popular if the American dub had been more faithful/accurate/what-have-you. We can guess, but it's all based on conjecture and opinion. Dragon Ball Z was/is successful in the US. Dragon Ball Z's dub was Americanized. There is no way to know for sure if these are mutually exclusive facts.

I think we can all agree, though, that the general American public is largely uninterested in foriegn media. We have an overabundance of domestic media, so there is not a demand for the other stuff. That sentament isn't exclusive to the US though. When is the last time you heard of the last smash success of an American cartoon in Japan? Sure, Spongebob might be moderately successful in Japan, but the top ten TV animation rankings are always their own stuff. I don't know if Dragon Ball Z was popular because of its Americanized dub. But I do believe the Americanized dub attracted a crowd that would have probably passed if the show had been left unaltered.

[Rocketman]

An unedited first episode would've turned a lot of people off, accurate or no.

[dprez]

It's really a pain to go about explaining to people that DBZ is a completely different show in Japanese.

This is the biggest problem I think. Especially when the Funi Dub is so deeply implanted in so many peoples minds, the nostalgia factor, added the the ignorance/simply not caring for what DBZ truly is.

It honestly is a completely different show in Japanese. Epic and awe-inspiring. It just seams so authentic and realistic, like literally the way it was meant to be seen.

American Dub is corny/cheesy/gay/bland/predictable, you name it. It 100% failed to capture the feel of the original experience of DBZ. The characters and what they say in certain situations is by far the biggest flaw. Yea the Faulconor music is, IMO, pretty bad and out of place and cheesy at times, especially in the comedic moments. Silence is much better in certain scenes. Of course some of his more intense scores for the intense moments were actually pretty good.

I have gotten to the point were I cringe at Gokus FUNi dub voice. Sean Schemmel is amateur compared to Masako Nozawa, as is the entire FUNi Dub crew.

For it's time, American DBZ was better than a lot of other cartoon shows on TV. My older step-brother at the time told me when I was like 10-11 that the Japanese version was way bloodier and they cursed and had more inappropriate humor. I knew even back then that this show was freakin' bad ass no matter what the douche-bags at school would say, who didn't know shit anyway. Ignorant.

To each his own. It's still DBZ, just two very, very different versions. All the visual epic-ness is still their when watching either version, I just prefer to hear foreign voices for a story that is defiantly not spoken in English by it's in-universe characters.

[dbboxkaifan]

Dragon Ball Z Kai in US is getting great responses, and they audience likes the pace of the story, plus the script, music, everything is better and more accurate than the FUNi DBZ Dub ever was.

So there is a way to know (Z Kai).

The only ones who still bitch about it are the ungrateful FUNi DBZ Dub fans.

[XanatosVanBadass]

The thing is, no one is saying that DBZ would have been just fine had they released it on American TV in Japanese with english subs. Americans (especially kids from any country) aren't going to read subs with their entertainment and that's fine for the most part. There is nothing so especially asian in the show that would have put kids off from watching it. This whole thing about US kids hating foreign shows is bullshit since most kids don't care or know where their programming comes from. Kids watch DBZ because of the animation and fighting, not for an in depth cultural lesson. A talented translator could have written an accurate and entertaining script that was faithful to its source material yet not bogged down with weeaboo nonsense. They could have translated the songs into english while keeping the original meaning and point intact. The fact that DBZ was successful everywhere else and it was unaltered proves it wasn't necessary for the US to be literally the only ones. US kids aren't THAT different from kids everywhere else.

[Majin Buu]

I love how people interpret "FUNimation didn't translate the show properly" as "You're a poopy pants and your mother is a poopy pants, too, you dub-watching poopy pants!" Honestly, I have to wonder how people take 1980s foreign television so damn seriously in all the wrong ways.

Same goes for my "team" here. There's no reason to get so into trying to change someone's mind about DBZ. They're gonna watch the dub whether you like it or not. Yes, it's a horrible mess of a dub but this debate is just gonna make them want to watch it not only out of enjoyment, but also spite!

To add. Some sub fans here are overly zealous, I admit. Though on the other hand, some dub fans here are quick to play the victim and act like they're being persecuted when (most of the time) people are simply disagreeing with them and challenging their views, which is just as bad.

[Rukura]

An unedited first episode would've turned a lot of people off, accurate or no.

An unedited and accurate first episode of the series with a proper treatment would've started with a kid with a tail in the mountains kicking a fish to the face, chopping wood with his fist and stopping Bulma's bullets with his head.