Super Episode 13 (04 October 2015)

[FortuneSSJ]

His "Goku is the number 1" speech pretty much says that.

He openly claims to "hate" Goku in F. lol.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsundere
Still his best friend.

[Froggy]

5 out of 10 arcs are light hearted and filled with gags.

I'm not saying the arcs didn't have gags. Even the Cell saga had gags. I'm saying this wasn't directly incorporated into the serious battles after a while. I mean, you have genuine funny moments that subvert expectations, like Goku biting Freeza's tail, but the tone or mood is never disrupted as frequently as it is in Super, with, what I assume, several fans are calling childish antics. Even in the Kid Buu fight, you have them biting each other, but the tension remains because, in the midst of all those strange attacks, Goku maintains a serious disposition and knows what's at stake. Here, it really feels like Goku and Beerus are just playing a game, which, perhaps, is true. However, I'd much prefer a genuine, fierce battle than all this "ow ow ow... that's not fair, Beerus-sama! *kawaii face*" and "Ping Ping" nonsense.

ill add that its clear that not only they abolished the gore side of dragon ball, they also censored it whenever they can. like when beerus created a hole in goku's body, instead of blood we saw red fire and then he resurrected himself (whaa?!) or the fact that he slapped bulma and nothing happened to her. if it happened in dbz saiyan or namek saga, she would be dead or at least in great great pain.

[fadeddreams5]

I personally see Vegeta as developing great respect for Goku after the Buu saga. He's his greatest rival and also the one person who drives him to push himself.

I...guess you can consider a friendship in there somewhere? If so, that's Vegeta's only friend. So, by default, best friend? As unconventional as it gets, but sure.

He doesn't openly declare Goku to be his best friend though. He never will. lol.

[Froggy]

I personally see Vegeta as developing great respect for Goku after the Buu saga. He's his greatest rival and also the one person who drives him to push himself.

I...guess you can consider a friendship in there somewhere? If so, that's Vegeta's only friend. So, by default, best friend? As unconventional as it gets, but sure.

He doesn't openly declare Goku to be his best friend though. He never will. lol.

respect is not friendship. you can respect your greatest enemy while still trying to kill him.

[Doctor.]

But Goku isn't Vegeta's greatest enemy. He isn't an enemy at all.

[Avery]

I actually find the recent Videl scenes to be kinda funny. She was just sitting on a chair in last week's ep while everyone there was gathered around her for...no reason? Mr. Satan calling Gohan to come over like she was giving birth made it look even dumber

The episode was pretty good. I'm getting used to Super's "good ep, bad ep, good ep, bad ep..." format. I still have an issue with the fight scenes, they cause me to space out a lot, just like RoF did. Animation aside, they are really boring. That scene near the end was great though.

The scene with Whis and Piccolo was perfect! If only Vegeta hadn't interfered... Why must you kill the fun? And for God's sake open that big mouth of yours already.

As for the new ED, I loved it. Much better than the previous one IMO. Also, why is Bulma standing where Chi Chi is supposed to be?

That's just an excuse so Vegeta can keep acting like a dick because Toriyama thinks that's the only way Vegeta can ever keep training (being relevant to the story). In the Buu arc he accepts Goku's the best and cooperates with him to save the world. Then RoF turns him into an asshole again who belitles Goku, refuses to cooperate with him and generally acts like a combination of his Cell & early Buu Saga self. Completely ignoring his developments from those arcs, one of the many reasons why I piss on all things RoF.

Character regression at its finest. Maybe Toriyama/Toei thinks that's the only way to keep him interesting?

[Polyphase Avatron]

Comments on this episode:

- "The fight that split the sea and scorched the heavens" - is that an accurate translation? Because the only time the sea was split was when Goku was practicing his Kamehameha, not fighting.
- I still don't get how they could see the explosion from another dimension using their normal eyesight
- The beam-struggle-that's-not-actually-a-beam-struggle is rather original, but it's dragging on way too long IMO
- Wait, is that reporter implying that the waves weren't spreading throughout the entire world before, even though they spread across the universe? What kind of sense does that make?
- Elder Kaioshin said that if that blast goes off, it will surely be the end of the world (presumably meaning the universe), but Whis says several nearby stars and planets will be destroyed at the very least... these things are not the same
- And once again, the only thing Videl is good for is sitting and looking pretty while being pregnant. I'm getting awfully tired of this.
- So is this yet another point of evidence for the "DBS Beerus is stronger than Whis" argument?
- I like the music when Mr. Satan draws up his ticket
- Here's that scene from last episode's preview that mirrors BoG. TBH they shouldn't try to match BoG scene-for-scene so much because there's no way they'll live up to the original versions with their budget
- I guess Gohan has his ki back now
- Goku seems to think that nullifying energy is impossible - so is that a special power of Beerus or just something no one else is strong enough to do?
- Cross-counter! I love seeing that.
- So Beerus really is at 100% this time. Assuming they don't cop-out have him say "Well, I was really only at 70% the whole time" or something, this has interesting implications for the RoF arc. Even if Beerus wins, he will have only won by a slight margin, so that could mean that Golden Freeza > SSGSSJ Goku/Vegeta > 100% Beerus (> Whis?). So Freeza finally will become the strongest in the universe?
- Okay, I'm officially no longer going to try to make sense of the whole "universe-destroying" thing. It's pure drama for the sake of drama, and only a threat when the plot dictates that it is. That's the only explanation that holds any water anymore.
- "Stop patronizing me" - is that an accurate translation? I find it hard to believe that Goku would know such a word.
- Whis getting angry for once. I was kind of hoping that he was going to attack Piccolo.
- Why is this episode called "surpass SSJG" if he doesn't do so in the episode?
- Herms' fact checker thread says nothing indicates that Goku's power decreased after he reverted back to SSJ this time, but despite still getting hit, Beerus was having a much easier time after SSJG wore off, at least that's the way it appears.
- Now here's that song I don't particularly care for again
- This fight is really being dragged out... I think they should just end it already.
- New ending theme. IMO it doesn't really fit the DB theme as much as the last one. Also the expression on 18's face looks weird.

This episode was maybe only slightly worse than the last one.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

I personally see Vegeta as developing great respect for Goku after the Buu saga. He's his greatest rival and also the one person who drives him to push himself.

I...guess you can consider a friendship in there somewhere? If so, that's Vegeta's only friend. So, by default, best friend? As unconventional as it gets, but sure.

He doesn't openly declare Goku to be his best friend though. He never will. lol.

respect is not friendship. you can respect your greatest enemy while still trying to kill him.

Vegeta isn't trying to kill Goku though. He had a great opportunity in Resurrection "F" and turned it down and then gave a speech about needed Goku alive and the only bad thing Vegeta said was that Goku can be "an annoying bastard". I annoy my friends all the time but they don't hate me or try to kill me. Ever since Vegeta admitted he finally respected Goku in the Buu arc his relationship with Goku has kept on growing and the Buu arc ended with them giving thumbs up to each other then in BoG, Goku mocked him in the end about the "my Bulma" and all Vegeta did was get embarrassed and turn away and then in Resurrection "F", Vegeta turned down the opportunity to kill Goku and made some excuse up to as why he won't, and it was an excuse because now he has become SSGSS killing Goku would mean he would be unstoppable, meaning no more SSG rituals so no more potential SSGSS's, he'll be on the top of the Saiyan pecking order. So yeah Goku is very much Vegeta's friend, what started out as respect has slowly changed into friendship and I am sure we'll get a subtle declaration by Vegeta like the "my Bulma" scene, down the line.

[fadeddreams5]

I actually find the recent Videl scenes to be kinda funny. She was just sitting on a chair in last week's ep while everyone there was gathered around her for...no reason? Mr. Satan calling Gohan to come over like she was giving birth made it look even dumber

She's treated like a fragile goddess. It's ironic. lol.

[Noah]

That's just an excuse so Vegeta can keep acting like a dick because Toriyama thinks that's the only way Vegeta can ever keep training (being relevant to the story). In the Buu arc he accepts Goku's the best and cooperates with him to save the world. Then RoF turns him into an asshole again who belitles Goku, refuses to cooperate with him and generally acts like a combination of his Cell & early Buu Saga self. Completely ignoring his developments from those arcs, one of the many reasons why I piss on all things RoF.

Well, we could say that 'Super' Vegeta characterization is going for the same way, I hated how he now acts like a "grumpy cat" all the time, episode 4 is an example, the way he acts with Bulma and when he backs home all that ridiculous speech about his desire to surpass Goku again. I though that "Number 1" speech could serve to somehow calm Vegeta down. But like it someone said before it looks like the characters in DBS are nothing but a parody of themselves in the past series

[Draconic]

Something that is really nitpicky but started to bug me is the way Goku starts wiping his chin after being punched in the face, but there is no blood. I guess I have OCD or something, but it really annoys me. The only thing I can think of why they are doing it is because the DVDs/BluRays will probably have a uncut version, with blood in all those scenes (and those of Beerus getting cut and maybe Goku being pierced by Beerus). Dragon Ball was never shy about blood, even during the silliest and childish parts of the original, so I really hope we get that rectified. I understand that it's pretty much a morning cartoon, but weren't people in Japan less sensitive to this kind of stuff?

[Doctor.]

That's just an excuse so Vegeta can keep acting like a dick because Toriyama thinks that's the only way Vegeta can ever keep training (being relevant to the story). In the Buu arc he accepts Goku's the best and cooperates with him to save the world. Then RoF turns him into an asshole again who belitles Goku, refuses to cooperate with him and generally acts like a combination of his Cell & early Buu Saga self. Completely ignoring his developments from those arcs, one of the many reasons why I piss on all things RoF.

I have a feeling it was done for marketing purposes. The stoic, "badass", anti-hero Vegeta is a lot more popular between fans than the new and improved Vegeta after his sacrifice. F feeling like a cash-grab with the sole goal of appealing to nostalgia (Roshi, Freeza, new forms, Goku regressing, DEE BEE ZEE action, more serious and darker tone) doesn't make me think otherwise in regards to Vegeta's character.

Hopefully Super at least develops Vegeta's character into something more believable. Because he has incredible confidence in Goku so far, constantly smiling and never giving up on his strength, so it would feel incredibly out-of-character for him to try to kill Goku later in the F arc.

[Chuquita]

Re: declaration line

There was an amusing one in Movie 7 where he says something about Gokû being a thing of his (his prey?). I think it was "Kakarrotto wa ore no mono da!"? But yeah, a declaration line in Super with where they are now would make that evening for me. X3

[Baggie_Saiyan]

That's just an excuse so Vegeta can keep acting like a dick because Toriyama thinks that's the only way Vegeta can ever keep training (being relevant to the story). In the Buu arc he accepts Goku's the best and cooperates with him to save the world. Then RoF turns him into an asshole again who belitles Goku, refuses to cooperate with him and generally acts like a combination of his Cell & early Buu Saga self. Completely ignoring his developments from those arcs, one of the many reasons why I piss on all things RoF.

...What? Vegeta didn't cooperate with Goku because Goku didn't want his help, not once in the film did Goku say hey Vegeta lets team up. Vegeta interrupted his fight with Freeza and then Freeza and Goku told him to get lost and he co-operated if he was regressed to his former self he wouldn't take that nonsense he would transformed into SSGSS and took them both on. And then when he had the opportunity to actually kill Goku, he didn't again if he regressed he would have killed Goku in an instant, as I mentioned before he'd be the only SSGSS and there would be no more since the SSG ritual wouldn't work. And just because Vegeta admitted he respected Goku doesn't mean he'll automatically stop "belittling" him, he obviously loves Bulma but he still pretty much treats her like no-one it is in his nature, just like the Goku respect thing he was caught with the "my Bulma" thing and still denied it, he wasn't like "right guys you caught me I love Bulma" that is just Vegeta. His character was just like how'd it expect, also at the end when Goku took out Freeza, if Vegeta had regressed he would transformed into SSGSS and took on Goku for stealing the spotlight but no he just battled him with words.

[ekrolo2]

That's just an excuse so Vegeta can keep acting like a dick because Toriyama thinks that's the only way Vegeta can ever keep training (being relevant to the story). In the Buu arc he accepts Goku's the best and cooperates with him to save the world. Then RoF turns him into an asshole again who belitles Goku, refuses to cooperate with him and generally acts like a combination of his Cell & early Buu Saga self. Completely ignoring his developments from those arcs, one of the many reasons why I piss on all things RoF.

Character regression at its finest. Maybe Toriyama/Toei thinks that's the only way to keep him interesting?

That's more or less it. Even though the Buu Saga establishes that Vegeta trained anyway because he liked it and that he values his family over his own pride (which BoG expanded upon) RoF makes him a parody of himself as Noah stated above me who's only interested in fighting & beating Goku. I'm not saying Vegeta needs to make a grand declaration stating he'll fight for his loved ones but subtly letting the audience notice how he isn't so hostile about his rivalry and prioritizes his family over everything else would be an effective way to keep Vegeta relevant in the plot and his character intact.

[goku the krump dancer]

This episode was sick! and next weeks looks to be just as good. I had no problem with the beam struggle, if anything it helped enhance the intensity of just how much power was packed into that little orb.

Speaking of which I guess it sorta confirms that at the very least, itty bitty Godku and Beerus are capable of "one shoting" universes. Meaning, destroying every planet,star and rock in that area with one hell of an explosion.

[ekrolo2]

That's just an excuse so Vegeta can keep acting like a dick because Toriyama thinks that's the only way Vegeta can ever keep training (being relevant to the story). In the Buu arc he accepts Goku's the best and cooperates with him to save the world. Then RoF turns him into an asshole again who belitles Goku, refuses to cooperate with him and generally acts like a combination of his Cell & early Buu Saga self. Completely ignoring his developments from those arcs, one of the many reasons why I piss on all things RoF.

...What? Vegeta didn't cooperate with Goku because Goku didn't want his help, not once in the film did Goku say hey Vegeta lets team up. Vegeta interrupted his fight with Freeza and then Freeza and Goku told him to get lost and he co-operated if he was regressed to his former self he wouldn't take that nonsense he would transformed into SSGSS and took them both on. And then when he had the opportunity to actually kill Goku, he didn't again if he regressed he would have killed Goku in an instant, as I mentioned before he'd be the only SSGSS and there would be no more since the SSG ritual wouldn't work. And just because Vegeta admitted he respected Goku doesn't mean he'll automatically stop "belittling" him, he obviously loves Bulma but he still pretty much treats her like no-one it is in his nature, just like the Goku respect thing he was caught with the "my Bulma" thing and still denied it, he wasn't like "right guys you caught me I love Bulma" that is just Vegeta. His character was just like how'd it expect, also at the end when Goku took out Freeza, if Vegeta had regressed he would transformed into SSGSS and took on Goku for stealing the spotlight but no he just battled him with words.

Vegeta acts like it's impossible for him and Goku to ever work together or get along which is bull crap because not only does he not act this way at all throughout BoG but the two work together pretty well in the Buu Saga with Vegeta getting a respect for Goku he openly admits to the audience at least. The whole movie tries to hammer on this point about the faults of not changing but regressing the characters to a point where they have no fucking reason to act this way other than to wank off to fanboys who don't give a shit about anything but power levels.

If Toriyama gave one one hundredth of a damn about anything concerning the movie he would've kept Goku & Vegeta's post BoG & Buu Saga developments in-tact and instead put the focus on them letting their Saiyan need for battle override their logic which gets Earth annihilated in the end. This accomplishes the same "theme" the movie is going for without pissing on what came before. It would also mean that the movie *gasp!* takes Freeza seriously as a threat and we simply cannot have a decent Freeza resurrection story that's not fanfiction. The Vegeta in RoF is one the character himself left behind a long time ago and you know your shits bad when DBM does a better post Buu Saga Vegeta than what the lauded creator of Dragon Ball can come up with.

[Draconic]

Not to say that I disagree with Vegeta appearing to have regressed a little in RoF, but, when it comes to not wanting to team up with Goku, the feeling is mutual. Goku laughs the idea off at the end of the movie, after all.

[Avery]

Re: declaration line

There was an amusing one in Movie 7 where he says something about Gokû being a thing of his (his prey?). I think it was "Kakarrotto wa ore no mono da!"? But yeah, a declaration line in Super with where they are now would make that evening for me. X3

Oh, that infamous, misunderstood-by-fangirls line
Now I just need to see how will they handle Goku bringing up "MY BULMAAA!" in this version.

Speaking of which I guess it sorta confirms that at the very least, itty bitty Godku and Beerus are capable of "one shoting" universes. Meaning, destroying every planet,star and rock in that area with one hell of an explosion.

And not even Whis can do anything about it! That was amazing. Sadly there was barely any feel of tension. I blame the direction for that.

[Kuririn Fan]

Something that is really nitpicky but started to bug me is the way Goku starts wiping his chin after being punched in the face, but there is no blood. I guess I have OCD or something, but it really annoys me. The only thing I can think of why they are doing it is because the DVDs/BluRays will probably have a uncut version, with blood in all those scenes (and those of Beerus getting cut and maybe Goku being pierced by Beerus). Dragon Ball was never shy about blood, even during the silliest and childish parts of the original, so I really hope we get that rectified. I understand that it's pretty much a morning cartoon, but weren't people in Japan less sensitive to this kind of stuff?

Japanese broadcast version IS the uncut version, this is what you'll get for home releases, they won't add blood for it. Laws are much more strict than in 80's and 90's.