Anyone consider or want GT as canon?

[sintzu]

http://textuploader.com/5y709

[Commentator] Another fan question: What do you think about the new transformation modes that appears in Dragon Ball Super, the Super Saiyan God, Super Saiyan Blue...? Because it seems they have forgotten Super Saiyan 4, from GT. What do you think?

[Yamamuro] About the Super Saiyan God, it's from the Resurrection of 'F' movie. And after that came DBGT with Super Saiyan 4.

[Commentator] Don't you think that it's the Akira Toriyama way to say that, as DBGT is not part of the original Dragon Ball world, he is not gonna use that transformation?

[Yamamuro] Yeah, well, in the TV shows it's logical that there has to be a connection between Dragon Ball and DBGT, but it also have some features more typical of a spin-off. A different thing, (and ?) The original script is from Toei, not from Akira Toriyama.

[TheMikado]

^ so what does this actually mean?

[sintzu]

^ so what does this actually mean?

I'm not sure to be honest, he was asked if Toriyama is ignoring Gt and he didn't say no but he didn't say yes.

He kind of hinted at it by saying it wasn't written by him and it has spin off features so...it's not connected ?

And what does he mean by spin off features ?

[Cetra]

We already covered that half a year ago.

[TenshinFan]

I think Toriyama or for that matter Toei's stances on the canonicity of GT, as well as the movies, is left intentionally vague. For me there are tiers.

Tier 1: Manga. Undisputed canon, the original.

Tier 2: Anime filler, + Bardock & Trunks Specials. Ingrained within the series for the first part, heavy Toriyama involvement for the second.

Tier 3: GT and the movies. Inconsistent Toriyama involvement, but characters heavily ingrained in the lore.

Tier 4: Vidya Games. Not canon at all but 'official'

Where does this leave the new stuff? No idea, haven't seen them (yet).

For me, it's a bummer that GT is so reviled. I thought it was pretty fresh, compared to the threat of stagnation in Z. I consider it personally canon. What truly interferes with it? And you have so many uniquely Dragon Ball concepts going on here that makes the franchise deeper. A third set of dragon balls with a cool red dragon, revenge of the tsufruians as a counter to the Saiyans, villains from Hell, Oob + Boo, Super saiyan 4, the return of Gogeta, the ageing of the supporting cast, female saiyan (pan), Vegeta with a moustache, Yajirobe with a moustache, Kuririn with a moustache, SS3 Kid Goku!, evil vegeta (again), brief Tenkaichi Budouki. If you love the franchise it's really hard to just brush aside an entire third of it.

That said, it was always meant to be a "side-story," what are those called in Japan, Gaiden I think? Toriyama alludes to it. He's never been the best at interviews, frequently forgets his own creations. I think GT isn't completely out of universe, but rather "canon until disputed." Sort of like the movies. Just because there's no way Trunks, Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo, etc can fight 3 androids in the arctic right in the crux of the Android Saga doesn't mean 13, 14, and 15 should be dismissed as fan-fic or something. If you kind of slide things around, time-wise or consistensy-wise, in your head, you can still fit the Saga together as a whole. DB, Z, GT, and the movies, as I believe the entire thing is intended to be one universal franchise. At least, monetarily it is.

[TenshinFan]

As an addendum, I almost want to consider GT "more canon" than the anime filler, as there is no manga basis for GT so it's wholly original as an anime. The way I see it, have a bookshelf full of the 42 comics and the Daizenshuu, as "pure" canon, and GT and the movies on disc as the next logical extension of the series. Maybe like how The Clone Wars is to the Star Wars films? I'm not sure if that's an accurate parable.

[sintzu]

You have so many uniquely Dragon Ball concepts going on here that makes the franchise deeper. A third set of dragon balls with a cool red dragon, revenge of the tsufruians as a counter to the Saiyans, villains from Hell, Oob + Boo, Super saiyan 4, the return of Gogeta, the ageing of the supporting cast, female saiyan (pan), Vegeta with a moustache, Yajirobe with a moustache, Kuririn with a moustache, SS3 Kid Goku!, evil vegeta (again), brief Tenkaichi Budouki. If you love the franchise it's really hard to just brush aside an entire third of it.

I think the reason a lot of fans brush it off is because they're just looking at what it did wrong instead of looking at the whole picture.

I understand why fans are disappointing with it but I don't understand why they outright hate it and wish it never existed.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

As an addendum, I almost want to consider GT "more canon" than the anime filler, as there is no manga basis for GT so it's wholly original as an anime. The way I see it, have a bookshelf full of the 42 comics and the Daizenshuu, as "pure" canon, and GT and the movies on disc as the next logical extension of the series. Maybe like how The Clone Wars is to the Star Wars films? I'm not sure if that's an accurate parable.

Well, not exactly because Disney announced that as of 2014 all the Star Wars films plus the 2008 Clone Wars show, and the books, comic books and video games are all officially canon.

With Dragon Ball it's different because there is no officially announced canon (other than the "timeline", which was released recently but doesn't make any sense so we can disregard that too).

[Cetra]

Well, not exactly because Disney announced that as of 2014 all the Star Wars films plus the 2008 Clone Wars show, and the books, comic books and video games are all officially canon.

That is a bit misleading. The old books and games are not canonical anymore. The new books are.

This is nothing new, we already know that GT is non canon side-story / spin-off.

I love how much confidence you put into the same wrong lines just for the sake of a rant. "We" know nothing.

[Kuririn Fan]

This is nothing new, we already know that GT is non canon side-story / spin-off.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Well, not exactly because Disney announced that as of 2014 all the Star Wars films plus the 2008 Clone Wars show, and the books, comic books and video games are all officially canon.

That is a bit misleading. The old books and games are not canonical anymore. The new books are.

My bad, I meant to say all the new material henceforth would be canon, which is the case as of now.

[Cipher]

One thing I find increasingly interesting as Super goes on is just how different it is from GT philosophically, in the way they choose to continue the universe.

Super seems to be determined to continue expanding just as the original story did--to leave no corner of its world untouched. For every hierarchy in setting and governance, there's another. Goku's recently shaken hands with the highest of high gods (though that's happened before). When the Boo arc introduced the highest divinity and cemented the cast as the strongest fighters within their universe, the new material invented more.

GT on the other hand, despite its throwing a small cast of characters into space for the initial arc, scales back. After the battle with Boo, we stay focused on the way the characters' lives play out on Earth. Part of this stems no doubt from it picking up after the end of Z/the manga, which established frumpier characters with lives beyond training, a Goku who has apparently been bored for ten years (which, by the way, how's Super going to get that back on track?). While we do get threats from beyond, the world is no longer expanding around the characters' strength and interactions. The main threat of the space arc has ties to Saiyan history; the last half the series is entirely focused on what's happening on Earth. When the series begins, everyone's living more or less normal lives: Pan is trying to be an average teen; Trunks runs a company; Vegeta's a dad. Goku trains Oob. Everyone's settled. And while the series throws them a handful of new threats and some new levels of strength (of a decidedly less mystical and universe-expanding vein than Super's), it's still focused on these super strong people who've done it all and happen to live on Earth. In Super, they're caught up in games of higher and higher gods.

In GT, once you get to the top, you can only go down. In Super, you keep going up.

That's the fundamental difference between them as continuations. And that's to say nothing of the way these aspects are reflected in aesthetic choices--taking its cue from the end of the manga, GT feels increasingly realistic and dated (in its mid-'90s setting; check out character designs and the settings in the latter half of the series), while Super, with two decades of Dragon Ball cementing its timelessness behind it, feels increasingly fantastic. It's one of the things that makes GT feel particularly un-Toriyama, but it's one of the reasons I find it interesting as an epilogue as well. Everything has peaked, and it's time to tie bows on things and let the real world catch up.

They both make sense in a way, and I could argue further for why each seems completely reasonable coming off the Boo arc. But they couldn't be more different in their cores.

[sintzu]

They both make sense in a way, and I could argue further for why each seems completely reasonable coming off the Boo arc. But they couldn't be more different in their cores.

After the Buu arc you want to see what else is out there which is what Super is giving us but when it's over, after everything the characters will have went through in Super, after everything they went through in Z and DB, you'll want a conclusion and that's exactly what GT does.

The best thing about GT is the sense of closure it gives to everyone and the overall DB story.

Everyone is living their lives normally, Goku is training someone to take his place, the dragon balls are taken away and although Goku saved the world 3 more times, he also had to finally give up on being earth's protector and move on like everyone else did.

It would be nice to get something set right after the shadow dragons arc to see how they dealt with Goku leaving and how Vegeta, Uub and the other Saiyans kept the earth safe.

[LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta]

http://textuploader.com/5y709

[Commentator] Another fan question: What do you think about the new transformation modes that appears in Dragon Ball Super, the Super Saiyan God, Super Saiyan Blue...? Because it seems they have forgotten Super Saiyan 4, from GT. What do you think?

[Yamamuro] About the Super Saiyan God, it's from the Resurrection of 'F' movie. And after that came DBGT with Super Saiyan 4.

[Commentator] Don't you think that it's the Akira Toriyama way to say that, as DBGT is not part of the original Dragon Ball world, he is not gonna use that transformation?

[Yamamuro] Yeah, well, in the TV shows it's logical that there has to be a connection between Dragon Ball and DBGT, but it also have some features more typical of a spin-off. A different thing, (and ?) The original script is from Toei, not from Akira Toriyama.

Can I find the full thing anywhere on kanzenshuu?

I go with anime canon vs manga canon vs kai canon. 3 continuities that don't need to follow each other.

one canon has goku have a ssj4 form and he's his most powerfull, another he has god ki, not as strong as GT tier ......but its still stronger then ssj3 Z goku. in this canon he's got 2 different types of ki and different adventures. then there's the kai canon, and I think super ties in with kai more then the manga. idk. it keeps kai filler but ignores Z filler, so it doesn't fit with Z the anime or the manga I guess.

[sintzu]

Can I find the full thing anywhere on kanzenshuu?

I go with anime canon vs manga canon vs kai canon. 3 continuities that don't need to follow each other.

I'm not sure, I haven't seen it anywhere so maybe it's still being translated.

That's the only way to make sense of everything.

[Kuririn Fan]

Can I find the full thing anywhere on kanzenshuu?

I go with anime canon vs manga canon vs kai canon. 3 continuities that don't need to follow each other.

I'm not sure, I haven't seen it anywhere so maybe it's still being translated.

That's the only way to make sense of everything.

And GT can't fit in any of those continuities.
Beerus was introduced in Z movie and all this new stuff can't fit with GT. GT is its own little thing, just like pre-BoG movies.

[jamiljamtheman]

And GT can't fit in any of those continuities.
Beerus was introduced in Z movie and all this new stuff can't fit with GT. GT is its own little thing, just like pre-BoG movies.

Its actually not that hard to fit GT in the pre-Super "anime canon". All you have to do is take out the movies within 1-13 that directly contradict the timeline of the Z anime. I wouldn't include movies 14 and 15 because they do directly contradict the Z-EOZ-GT timeline.

Then there's the current post Super canon which is Z-Super-EOZ(?) that's how I see it. And yes I admit that is the more prevalently "canon" timeline because it is current and the main author (Mr. Toriyama) is so involved with it.

[LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta]

And GT can't fit in any of those continuities.
Beerus was introduced in Z movie and all this new stuff can't fit with GT. GT is its own little thing, just like pre-BoG movies.

Its actually not that hard to fit GT in the pre-Super "anime canon". All you have to do is take out the movies within 1-13 that directly contradict the timeline of the Z anime. I wouldn't include movies 14 and 15 because they do directly contradict the Z-EOZ-GT timeline.

Then there's the current post Super canon which is Z-Super-EOZ(?) that's how I see it. And yes I admit that is the more prevalently "canon" timeline because it is current and the main author (Mr. Toriyama) is so involved with it.

Ignore him, he trolls GT threads. movies 14/15 fit in with the manga ...they're non canon to the anime, there's no Gregory and such, I think all the films are just what ifs save for dead zone, the first cooler movie, the 2 tv specials (trunks and bardock) as well as movie 13 if you consider that canon to the anime. bojack may also fit, but gohan was supposed to have learn ssj2 by then, but If we de canonize something from dragonball for having plot holes then we have to say good bye to nearly all of the franchise.

[Kuririn Fan]

And GT can't fit in any of those continuities.
Beerus was introduced in Z movie and all this new stuff can't fit with GT. GT is its own little thing, just like pre-BoG movies.

Its actually not that hard to fit GT in the pre-Super "anime canon". All you have to do is take out the movies within 1-13 that directly contradict the timeline of the Z anime. I wouldn't include movies 14 and 15 because they do directly contradict the Z-EOZ-GT timeline.

Then there's the current post Super canon which is Z-Super-EOZ(?) that's how I see it. And yes I admit that is the more prevalently "canon" timeline because it is current and the main author (Mr. Toriyama) is so involved with it.

Beerus was introduced in Dragon Ball Z movie and that means GT cant fit with original DB-DBZ anime canon, it is its own little thing, little spin-off, side story, like the 17 pre-BoG movies...

[Cipher]

Beerus was introduced in Dragon Ball Z movie and that means GT cant fit with original DB-DBZ anime canon, it is its own little thing, little spin-off, side story, like the 17 pre-BoG movies...

Don't let title semantics get in the way. Resurrection "F" is also a "Z" movie, and it runs roughshod over the way the anime series presented Hell.

The original three anime series do form a tidy package together. The new material is exactly that -- new material, written to align with the manga and, in Super's case, possibly Kai, whose timeslot it inherited, though that's icing.

That doesn't mean that Z has to lead into GT though, just as it doesn't have to lead into Battle of Gods. They're all just different projects, produced at different times, each built to reference and incorporate different pre-existing material. While some pair together more seamlessly than others, how you want to view them is up to you.