GT or Super? Which one is the best?

[TheMikado]

Don't get where the "good ideas" are in GT or how it fits better with the series. GT has Gokuu as a kid again, reused plot points from Dragonball, has ki spamming fights and makes everyone but Gokuu weak and lame. There are a few good things. Baby was good as a character with a new style of attack and personal motivation, and his arc has a lot of interesting moments. SSJ4 looks neat and Pan I liked more than most do.

But Super, not GT, is the one with fresh ideas. The only original villain in GT was Baby, Super has Beerus, Whis, Champa, Vados, and now Zamasu and himself. It also expands the Dragonball mythos way more than GT, which only added the dark star balls. There's also more choreography and strategy in the actual fights in Super.

Wow, have you even watched GT? The entire series has a huge theme. CONSEQUENCES. Some idiot uses the back star Dragonballs to make a stupid wish and as a result the entire planet is going to blow up. Out in space they meet on the races that was killed to extinction by the saiyans and they want revenge. With Super 17 every enemy they've ever fought usually from causing them to come to earth in the first place lays waste to the entire earth. Having not learned their lesson about Dragonballs yet they overuse them and the Dragonballs and Shenron themselves become their enemies. Not to mention Piccolo actually DYING and the combination of SSJ with the Oozaru form. GT ironically pulls more from the original Dragonball series while Super seems to be targeted squarely at those who think Z is Dragonball.. the worse part about Super is the only one who seems to suffer any consequences is Trunks and he's ironically the only one who hasn't been stupid things like giving people senzu beans, letting the androids live, letting Cell become perfect, or letting Buu get released. And how is he rewarded for his hard work, diligence, and hope? Having his mother killed and his entire universe and everyone that counted and believed in him wiped away in a instant. Yeah Super is a millions times better /s

[Gog]

That's a fool's question. Of course GT gave us something worse than Female Broly.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

[spoiler][/spoiler]

That's a fool's answer. The Shadow Dragons were a interesting concept handled poorly, It's stupid that in Super they can abuse Earth DB whenever they want for futile reasons (Episode 68).

Super 17 arc even though is arguably the worst arc in the series is not as worst as RoF arc in Super.

But a fool's argument, is that even an amazing concept with terrible execution is just terrible. With Fem Broly, she may have a terrible concept. However it all depends on the execution. Eh, its just stupid to us, to them it just seems like an ordinary thing.

Super 17 is bad, no denying that

[TheZFighter]

Super by a mile, and Super itself isn't even that good. It isn't even a close contest.

[sintzu]

Did GT gave us any atrocity that could measure Fem Broly?

Nothing can be worse than GT's 1st 15 episodes.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Did GT gave us any atrocity that could measure Fem Broly?

Nothing can be worse than GT's 1st 15 episodes.

The first 15 weren't even that bad, the episodes got really boring once the focus moved back to Earth.

[SaiyanZ]

Super has Beerus and Whis, so I'd probably choose it over GT. As horrible as Revival of F as a film was, the anime made it somewhat more better. Zamasu arc is horrible in the anime, but somewhat better in the manga. GT has the awesome SSj4 designs and a better idea executed in Baby in comparison to Zamasu, in terms of a villain whose motives/goals are sort of different from the usual DB villain. But, the Super 17 and Evil Dragon arcs are just downright laughable (Freeza and Cell losing to ice? Seriously? )

[Jinzoningen MULE]

GT, aside from the consequence-driven themes that TheMikado mentioned, was "Rehash, the series". DBS, while it does enjoy its gimmicks, at least has original ideas, which is why I enjoy Super more.

[Doctor.]

GT, aside from the consequence-driven themes that TheMikado mentioned, was "Rehash, the series". DBS, while it does enjoy its gimmicks, at least has original ideas, which is why I enjoy Super more.

This is a new one. People usually praise GT for its unique concepts whilst criticizing DBS for the opposite. Why do you feel it's a rehash?

[Gog]

GT, aside from the consequence-driven themes that TheMikado mentioned, was "Rehash, the series". DBS, while it does enjoy its gimmicks, at least has original ideas, which is why I enjoy Super more.

This is a new one. People usually praise GT for its unique concepts whilst criticizing DBS for the opposite. Why do you feel it's a rehash?

Gathering the black dragon ball's is literally Dragon ball, in fact, I even found out that entire episodes even rehashed the plot of the original. Super 17 saga is literally Dragon ball Z fusion reborn, featuring a near identical plot premise executed kaio ken times worse than it. Gt even went as far, as to regress Goku into a child, literally destroying all the progress he had done, to make it pander to children.

[Doctor.]

Gt even went as far, as to regress Goku into a child, literally destroying all the progress he had done, to make it pander to children.

I don't think Goku regressed just because he was turned into a child. GT made him regress when he started saying things like "I'm not a Saiyan" so casually and without any character pointing it out.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

GT, aside from the consequence-driven themes that TheMikado mentioned, was "Rehash, the series". DBS, while it does enjoy its gimmicks, at least has original ideas, which is why I enjoy Super more.

This is a new one. People usually praise GT for its unique concepts whilst criticizing DBS for the opposite. Why do you feel it's a rehash?

The first half of the first arc of GT was a clone of Dragon Ball's origin, the Pan/Goku dynamic was an odd twist on the Bulma/Goku dynamic from the beginning. Hell, there was an entire episode that was a copy of Oolong's debut. The second half of GT's Arc, while more narrative-centric, feels awfully similar to parts of the Red Ribbon Army. Dr. Myuu is Dr. Gero, Parapara Brothers are the Ginyu Force with the gag meter cranked up to 20. Machine Mutants are Androids, Baby's personality is basically Freeza's. Hell, there's a whole arc that's literally just fighting old villains. Even most of the Evil Dragons are less interesting attempts at creating old-styled DB villains.

Dragon Ball Super's originality are all cheap nostalgia pulls, they aren't trying to pretend to be original like GT. Even at that, a list of DBS's unoriginalities consist of Freeza coming back (even though the arc itself, while bare-bones, is original as far as previous DB plots go). We had Frost, which is still a Freeza rip, but an interesting take on him, at least. Other than that, all I can think of is Future Trunks as a character and Potara Fusion. Still too much for such a currently short series, but it's far better than GT in that respect.

People who think they like GT because of the interesting ideas don't remember GT.

[Doctor.]

Baby's personality is basically Freeza's

I don't agree with this at all. What are the similarities besides being arrogant and pure evil? Because most DB villains share those traits.

Dragon Ball Super's originality are all cheap nostalgia pulls, they aren't trying to pretend to be original like GT. Even at that, a list of DBS's unoriginalities consist of Freeza coming back (even though the arc itself, while bare-bones, is original as far as previous DB plots go). We had Frost, which is still a Freeza rip, but an interesting take on him, at least. Other than that, all I can think of is Future Trunks as a character and Potara Fusion. Still too much for such a currently short series, but it's far better than GT in that respect.

What about an evil Goku? As in, Tullece 2.0. Sure, Black ended up being an interesting spin on the concept and an entertaining character, but it still doesn't distract from the fact that his concept his terribly unoriginal both in Dragon Ball and in fiction in general. There's also the fact that you introduce 11 other universes and the first one you decide to focus on is the one that's almost exactly the same as ours. And you do that by introducing a new Saiyan character and a Freeza race character. Now, in the new tournament, there's a Broly-like character.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Baby's personality is basically Freeza's

I don't agree with this at all. What are the similarities besides being arrogant and pure evil? Because most DB villains share those traits.

Those are literally his only notable traits, along with childishness, the exact same as Freeza. I guess he has a better backstory, but that hardly matters since GT never capitalized on it.

What about an evil Goku? As in, Tullece 2.0.

Those are awfully convenient ways of phrasing it. I won't even acknowledge Tullece, since everything about his concept comes from a totally different perspective. Goku Black is an "Evil Goku" only in the most superficial sense. Granted, the reason he looks the way he does is so they could market an evil Goku, but that hardly matters when we're talking about the character itself. Even if it were just "Evil Goku", I've never seen it done quite like DBS did, and I struggle to think of any time it was done better, either.

There's also the fact that you introduce 11 other universes and the first one you decide to focus on is the one that's almost exactly the same as ours. And you do that by introducing a new Saiyan character and a Freeza race character. Now, in the new tournament, there's a Broly-like character.

I won't... well, I can't defend FemBroly. I don't even have to make any predictions, it's clear from her appearance in the trailer, as well as some hints that we got about 2 weeks ago, that she's just Broly with boobs. Honestly, that was a shock for a series that hasn't gone the DBH route. I already covered Frost, he's an interesting take on a rehash while still being a rehash. However, a new Saiyan counts as unoriginal? Why? I hear a lot of people say that they don't want new Saiyans because it's so unoriginal, but I don't get how. We've only seen a few Saiyans at all, ever, especially in Toriyama's own material. Not to mention that these Saiyans aren't even the same thing. As far as we can see so far, they're uber-generic heroes of their universe, which has a ton of comedic potential, if nothing else.

[Doctor.]

Those are literally his only notable traits, along with childishness, the exact same as Freeza. I guess he has a better backstory, but that hardly matters since GT never capitalized on it.

They're not his only traits. His motivation is different than Freeza's. Freeza wants immortality, Baby wants revenge (until he becomes full-on hypocrite, but I never called him a good character). Being arrogant, childish and pure evil are traits that Freeza, Cell and (Super) Boo all share, the difference between them are their objectives. I know there's this trend of saying that Cell is just a rehashed Freeza and Boo just a rehashed Cell, but I don't think so at all.

It's not like Baby is exactly a well-written character, but he has more personality than you're giving him credit for.

Those are awfully convenient ways of phrasing it. I won't even acknowledge Tullece, since everything about his concept comes from a totally different perspective. Goku Black is an "Evil Goku" only in the most superficial sense. Granted, the reason he looks the way he does is so they could market an evil Goku, but that hardly matters when we're talking about the character itself. Even if it were just "Evil Goku", I've never seen it done quite like DBS did, and I struggle to think of any time it was done better, either.

Sure, it's a matter of perspective, but I think it's clear to everyone why Tullece exists, even if it was never stated outright by the producers of the film. Even Perfect Cell fits the role of being an evil Goku, if you subscribe to that interpretation.

Not wanting to bring fanfiction into the argument, since I really hate when someone just dismisses a concept because "oh, it sounds like fanfiction", an "evil Goku" is really one of the most popular concepts the fanbase has wanted since Dragon Ball's end. It's just fanservice. They did it well, but it was still unoriginal.

However, a new Saiyan counts as unoriginal? Why? I hear a lot of people say that they don't want new Saiyans because it's so unoriginal, but I don't get how. We've only seen a few Saiyans at all, ever, especially in Toriyama's own material. Not to mention that these Saiyans aren't even the same thing. As far as we can see so far, they're uber-generic heroes of their universe, which has a ton of comedic potential, if nothing else.

Because you have 11 new universes to explore, you have your own universe to explore, and you choose to focus on another Saiyan? When the Saiyan species is already the most developed one in the Dragon Ball franchise by a long shot? For what purpose? It just sounds like those ideas you bring in to the show when you're struggling to find a good concept, or just want to kill some time. "Just, whatever, introduce a new Saiyan and kids will cream their pants." Like Frost, it's an interesting spin on the Saiyans, as they're not the same as the ones we know, but the concept would work much better if we hadn't seen pure-good Saiyans before in the form of the half-breeds, Tarble and Gine.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Sure, it's a matter of perspective, but I think it's clear to everyone why Tullece exists, even if it was never stated outright by the producers of the film. Even Perfect Cell fits the role of being an evil Goku, if you subscribe to that interpretation.

Tullece is Goku if he had turned out to be a regular Saiyan (basically, Goku if he weren't Goku). I don't concede that Cell functions as an evil Goku just because he has Saiyan traits.

Not wanting to bring fanfiction into the argument

Good, because what fans write has nothing to do with the official material. It certainly would be a shame if we started judging the originality of official material by what hundreds of fans have had 20 years to write during Dragon Ball's recess.

Because you have 11 new universes to explore, you have your own universe to explore, and you choose to focus on another Saiyan? When the Saiyan species is already the most developed one in the Dragon Ball franchise by a long shot? For what purpose? It just sounds like those ideas you bring in to the show when you're struggling to find a good concept, or just want to kill some time.

What connection do our characters have to the rest of the universes? It would be neat, but there's no reason for us to see that yet. It's a shame, but the multiverse expanded faster than the characters were ready for it. Cabba and Vegeta, on the other hand, have a connection, and surely Vegeta is curious to see how the U6 Saiyans developed. Mind you, we're almost definitely going to find out, and that's better than searching random other worlds for no reason. GT is proof enough of this, they spent a good deal of time exploring under bullshit pretenses, and there was no reason to care, which is what made that part of the series a special kind of boring.

[Doctor.]

What connection do our characters have to the rest of the universes? It would be neat, but there's no reason for us to see that yet. It's a shame, but the multiverse expanded faster than the characters were ready for it. Cabba and Vegeta, on the other hand, have a connection, and surely Vegeta is curious to see how the U6 Saiyans developed. Mind you, we're almost definitely going to find out, and that's better than searching random other worlds for no reason. GT is proof enough of this, they spent a good deal of time exploring under bullshit pretenses, and there was no reason to care, which is what made that part of the series a special kind of boring.

If they don't have a connection, then create a connection. That's what was done with Hit. It's up to the writers to figure it out, introducing a new Saiyan and building a connection that way just seems like playing it safe to me.

In a perfect world, universe 7 would have been much better developed before introducing a multiverse, but alas.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

If they don't have a connection, then create a connection. That's what was done with Hit. It's up to the writers to figure it out, introducing a new Saiyan and building a connection that way just seems like playing it safe to me.

Those sure are easy words to say. I don't get your Hit example, all he did was create a badass (non-)character for Goku to fight against sometimes, he's wasted potential. You make it sound easy for a writer to just make connections, but Saiyans are really the only efficient here. After all, they can't freely travel to other universes, U6 being the only plausible one at all. There are very few aliens that would pose a challenge even if they could move freely. If DB decided to go full Star Trek with a challenging fighter at every planet, Goku and Vegeta's progress would be totally devalued.

It really is a difficult situation, but I feel that, given all the poor world-building practices up to this point, there's no way to start now without creating a plethora of other narrative issues. As far as exploration goes, I think DBS can keep doing exactly what it's doing.

[Doctor.]

If they don't have a connection, then create a connection. That's what was done with Hit. It's up to the writers to figure it out, introducing a new Saiyan and building a connection that way just seems like playing it safe to me.

Those sure are easy words to say. I don't get your Hit example, all he did was create a badass (non-)character for Goku to fight against sometimes, he's wasted potential. You make it sound easy for a writer to just make connections, but Saiyans are really the only efficient here. After all, they can't freely travel to other universes, U6 being the only plausible one at all. There are very few aliens that would pose a challenge even if they could move freely. If DB decided to go full Star Trek with a challenging fighter at every planet, Goku and Vegeta's progress would be totally devalued.

It really is a difficult situation, but I feel that, given all the poor world-building practices up to this point, there's no way to start now without creating a plethora of other narrative issues. As far as exploration goes, I think DBS can keep doing exactly what it's doing.

Hit provides a gateway to explore universe 6. I was more-so speaking about his potential, not what they've done with him.

If you want to develop a world by using the preexisting species, then Boo's character has almost infinite potential, especially after Toriyama retconned his origin recently. You introduce his version of U6 and you can start worldbuilding from there. Yet, he didn't even fight in the tournament.

[sangofe]

I'm rewatching gt and wow, some of the animation and art is stunning. So dbgt bests super there most of the time. Except the best of super. Nothing is better than that.

So all in all super is better than most of DBGT. I say most because the planet m2 episodes are great.

[dbs fanboy]

This arc will finally make me decide which one (so far) is better. As (and forgive me to repeat it again) i really see both of them as equals and enjoy them equally minus some aspects. As super is longer, it can give me more content so by just using common sense, if i find this arc good/enjoyable then for me super will be better than GT, if it's bad-meh then it'll remain in the same level as GT, if it's terrible, then GT>super. If i count filler, then currently i find super better than GT.