Dragon Ball GT: A Personal Assessment (20 Year Anniversary)

[DSB]

Hair color is one thing, but Goku becoming a furry? I just think it's stupid

I mean, it's only been part of the lore since day 1. You do remember Oozaru right? Like, the major part of Saiyan mythology...

Also, minimalistic =/= automatically good. SSG's got a particularly toxic shade of pink/magneta hair, unfitting skinny design, oversized irides that together create a look that doesn't fit the show nor other characters and exist only because Toriyama really wishes he could retcon the entire thing into collection of kawaii stick-figures. I understand his change of style, but you can't do it with 1 design and expect it to fit with the old one without issues. SSB is already easier on the eyes thanks to retaining old SSJ1 proportion of the body/facial details and utilizing a less eye-burning light blue hair.

You do realize the Series which had the Pink panther Transformation was cancelled ONLY after 64 episodes right?

Like Super is nearing DOUBLE that number and UIO has been touted as great as the OG SSJ by most of the fandom. Its reveal broke the internet.

So ya, out arguments holds more weight.

[ABED]

More episodes doesn't equal better.

[Timetraveller]

Hair color is one thing, but Goku becoming a furry? I just think it's stupid

I mean, it's only been part of the lore since day 1. You do remember Oozaru right? Like, the major part of Saiyan mythology...

Also, minimalistic =/= automatically good. SSG's got a particularly toxic shade of pink/magneta hair, unfitting skinny design, oversized irides that together create a look that doesn't fit the show nor other characters and exist only because Toriyama really wishes he could retcon the entire thing into collection of kawaii stick-figures. I understand his change of style, but you can't do it with 1 design and expect it to fit with the old one without issues. SSB is already easier on the eyes thanks to retaining old SSJ1 proportion of the body/facial details and utilizing a less eye-burning light blue hair.

You do realize the Series which had the Pink panther Transformation was cancelled ONLY after 64 episodes right?

Like Super is nearing DOUBLE that number and UIO has been touted as great as the OG SSJ by most of the fandom. Its reveal broke the internet.

So ya, out arguments holds more weight.

Episode count has more to do with merchandise sales than show quality. SS4 is just as revered if not more.

[DSB]

I mean, it's only been part of the lore since day 1. You do remember Oozaru right? Like, the major part of Saiyan mythology...

Also, minimalistic =/= automatically good. SSG's got a particularly toxic shade of pink/magneta hair, unfitting skinny design, oversized irides that together create a look that doesn't fit the show nor other characters and exist only because Toriyama really wishes he could retcon the entire thing into collection of kawaii stick-figures. I understand his change of style, but you can't do it with 1 design and expect it to fit with the old one without issues. SSB is already easier on the eyes thanks to retaining old SSJ1 proportion of the body/facial details and utilizing a less eye-burning light blue hair.

You do realize the Series which had the Pink panther Transformation was cancelled ONLY after 64 episodes right?

Like Super is nearing DOUBLE that number and UIO has been touted as great as the OG SSJ by most of the fandom. Its reveal broke the internet.

So ya, out arguments holds more weight.

Episode count has more to do with merchandise sales than show quality. SS4 is just as revered if not more.

Alright. If SSJ4 was revered that well why didnt its merchandise sale allow the series to continue????

[ABED]

You are being awfully reductive about this issue.

[TheMikado]

You do realize the Series which had the Pink panther Transformation was cancelled ONLY after 64 episodes right?

Like Super is nearing DOUBLE that number and UIO has been touted as great as the OG SSJ by most of the fandom. Its reveal broke the internet.

So ya, out arguments holds more weight.

Episode count has more to do with merchandise sales than show quality. SS4 is just as revered if not more.

Alright. If SSJ4 was revered that well why didnt its merchandise sale allow the series to continue????

Because there wasn’t enough transformations to sell. It’s the same reason Kai got cancelled despite’s better ratings than Super. It didn’t sell toys, Super is specifically designed to sell toys to 5 year olds hence the absurd transformations which are less story driven than merchandising driven. The producers specifically said that in order for a Dragonball series to be successful it HAS to sell toys even if it’s ratings are good and popular and a quality product.

[MR.Mark]

More episodes doesn't equal better.

Case in point DBZ and all it's bloated filler.

Maybe if Toei had actually given the anime a break after the Dragon Ball anime ended before starting DBZ we wouldn't have Kai right now.

Gotta continue throwing Super under the bus for being a cash grab though, clearly that was never the case with Dragon Ball before.

Reason Goku got SSJ4= To fight stronger enemys and to sell more toys

Reason Goku got God powers= to fight stronger enemys and sell more toys

There is no real difference, comes down to which you thought was better executed. I already think it was pretty pointless story wise to turn Goku into a kid only to give him SSJ4 , so in this case Super makes more sense to me.

I personally hope Ultra Instinct will tie in story wise for why Goku fought Uub in base in EOZ.

[TheMikado]

More episodes doesn't equal better.

Case in point DBZ and all it's bloated filler.

Maybe if Toei had actually given the anime a break after the Dragon Ball anime ended before starting DBZ we wouldn't have Kai right now.

Gotta continue throwing Super under the bus for being a cash grab though, clearly that was never the case with Dragon Ball before.

Reason Goku got SSJ4= To fight stronger enemys and to sell more toys

Reason Goku got God powers= to fight stronger enemys and sell more toys

There is no real difference, comes down to which you thought was better executed. I already think it was pretty pointless story wise to turn Goku into a kid only to give him SSJ4 , so in this case Super makes more sense to me.

I personally hope Ultra Instinct will tie in story wise for why Goku fought Uub in base in EOZ.

Except with GT we got 1 new SSJ form. 2 if you count Oozaru. While Super we’ve got half a dozen... people don’t mind it making a little money but when your narrative centers around the aspect and the producers of the show blatantly tell you that it tends to lose credibility.

[ABED]

He fought Uub because Uub wasn't at full power and it was a tournament. Uub's power increased as the match went on. I don't see how UI will clarify anything. It was already clear to begin with.

And why were the ideas behind UI have to lead to a transformation?

[MR.Mark]

There was a red haired Gogeta too wasin't there?

Anyway apples and oranges, Super isn't even done yet so I wanna see where Toriyama is going with all this. God was something he ran with that wasin't his original idea just like fusion. Ultra Instinct as far as I know was pure Toriyama and it's the first truly exciting power up Goku has had since Namek as far as I'm concerned.

You wanna talk credibility, at least Super had many years of the franchise to stew into interest again and sparking creative in Toriyama with BOG. GT was still completely riding the hype train of DBZ and to me it shows.

He fought Uub because Uub wasn't at full power and it was a tournament. Uub's power increased as the match went on. I don't see how UI will clarify anything. It was already clear to begin with.

And why were the ideas behind UI have to lead to a transformation?

The point is I like Goku fighting in base and I'd like UI to lead to that, and nothing in EOZ contradicts that idea.

[ABED]

The hair was red, but it wasn't a different transformation. It was just SS4 Gogeta.

UI didn't need to be a power up. All Beerus said is Goku had to learn to let go and fight without his conscious mind. Why does that require some new form?

You wanna talk credibility, at least Super had many years of the franchise to stew into interest again and sparking creative in Toriyama with BOG. GT was still completely riding the hype train of DBZ and to me it shows.

If RoF is any indication, that well ran dry. GT at least tried to push things forward and gave the story an ending. Super comes across as an attempt to keep the gravy train going forever.

[MR.Mark]

Why wasin't Goku's SSJ4 hair red? It's pretty random.

I don't get the point your trying to make with Ultra Instinct. I like the idea that it's existence might cancel out Goku's need for SSJ and further transformations, not be the lead into a new one. UI comes off as more of a martial arts technique.

Weak argument once again for Super from someone that hasin't even watched it. You sound salty with your response to be honest. Turning the lead back into a child is anything but moving forward.

I'm not against the series ending for good one day, but IMO Super shows there's still ideas to keep it going.

[ABED]

It's very simple. All Beerus said was Goku needed to learn a skill. That doesn't require a new form. UI is itself a new form.

I am salty. I'm salty about this incessant feeling that shows should be brought back after they've been given an ending. How many of these revivals were actually good.

there's still ideas to keep it going.

Ideas are relatively easy. Execution is hard.

[MR.Mark]

OK...and this skill that is UI is something I like a lot and hope it's tied to why Goku fought Uub in base by Toriyama. I'm still not sure the point your making. The form was barely a change in Goku's appearance and that to me is a great thing.

That's fine that you enjoy an ending for a series not written by the creator of the series, but I don't. Especially after 64 episodes of wasted potential and afew truly poor ideas. Goku being a kid again was a bad idea and badly executed imo.

Again, I recommend actually watching Super before stating your opinions.

[ABED]

It's still a new form. Forget the appearance. It's a new form as proven by it being given a separate name. It's simply a skill, so why does it require another transformation after all the others. It's a marketing ploy. I don't give a crap if it has anything to do with Uub. I don't care about Uub in the least.

Goku being a kid again was a bad idea and badly executed imo.

People's problems with it are so strange. Why does this bother people so much that he was put in his child body again?

Again, I recommend actually watching Super before stating your opinions.

After everything I'm reading and watching RoF, I have no interest in it anymore. That and I have seen too many terrible revivals that were just awful. Christ, they brought back Freeza and are turning him into Goku's arch enemy even though DB has never had an arch enemy before. Toriyama had the good sense to not keep the enemies coming back again and again and again.

[MR.Mark]

So because you don't care about Uub, justifies your problem with UI? That's your problem then.

Making Goku a kid again only to become an adult every time he turned SSJ4 shows they didn't think the idea through to begin with. GT became more DBZ like for a reason later in it's run. Gotta sell those SSJ4 Gogeta toys!

As for Super, again that's your problem then. Enjoy having an opinion I can't take seriously.

[ABED]

So because you don't care about Uub, justifies your problem with UI? That's your problem then.

Making Goku a kid again only to become an adult every time he turned SSJ4 shows they didn't think the idea through to begin with. GT became more DBZ like for a reason later in it's run. Gotta sell those SSJ4 Gogeta toys!

As for Super, again that's your problem then. Enjoy having an opinion I can't take seriously.

Uub has nothing to do with it. This is the first time I've commented on him. I've said several times what my issue is with it. Are you pulling this crap again with me?

Wait, so was Goku turning into a kid a bad idea because of SS4 or was it a bad idea from the start?

No, you're right, continually trotting out Freeza is a TERRIFIC idea even though it can only end in either defeat or redemption, both roads we've been down before several times.

[MR.Mark]

Uub has nothing to do with it yet you said you don't care for Uub. I'm trying to explain that UI could lead to Goku not needing more transformations, therefore being a good thing for the story using Uub as an example. So again, I don't see your point.

Goku being a kid was a bad idea (did nothing for the story in the long run), and was badly executed. (magically turns adult whenever he needs SSJ4)

Freeza was brought back by Toriyama only to be killed to make Trunks cool, try watching the TOP to see Freeza be truly memorable in his return with his golden form. It definitely makes me want to see what he is plotting with Goku and the Gods.

[ABED]

Uub has nothing to do with it yet you said you don't care for Uub. I'm trying to explain that UI could lead to Goku not needing more transformations, therefore being a good thing for the story using Uub as an example. So again, I don't see your point.

Goku being a kid was a bad idea (did nothing for the story in the long run), and was badly executed. (magically turns adult whenever he needs SSJ4)

Freeza was brought back by Toriyama only to be killed to make Trunks cool, try watching the TOP to see Freeza be truly memorable in his return with his golden form. It definitely makes me want to see what he is plotting with Goku and the Gods.

I've said over and over, the point of UI is Goku is just untilizing a new skill set. He can fight unconsciously, which was what Beerus and Whis were telling him he needed to learn how to do. That didn't require some new form. If you were learning some skill and a teacher told you that you needed to stop thinking about it and just react instinctually, that wouldn't require some transformation.

Goku being a kid helped a little by giving him a limit. He couldn't just teleport wherever he wanted.

and was badly executed. (magically turns adult whenever he needs SSJ4)

That's an awfully arbitrary line there. It's all BS.

There's nothing enticing about watching Freeza come back to be defeated yet again. In canon, he's been defeated three damn times. Either he's defeated AGAIN or he is redeemed which we've already seen with Piccolo and Vegeta. There's nothing new about this.

[MR.Mark]

I don't need a lesson on what UI is when I'm trying to justify it's benefit to the story. So if you just don't like it that's your personal preference. a lot of people love it, me included and I've givin a reason why it's better than just another transformation.

Again, giving Goku a limit why? He was just given SSJ4 not to much later. Was it critical for him to be a kid for the oh so important hunt for the dragonballs across the galaxy? Which was then quickly dropped in favor of DBZ style fighting and powerups?

As for Freeza, we can only guess at this point but we can't predict the future. I only know from WHAT I WATCHED, is that the has been great in the current arc so far.