Between the Funimation dub of Kai and their dub of Super, which would you say is better?

[Fionordequester]

What you are talking about isn't akin to scientist bringing complex principles down to a level the average person can understand. It's the equivalent of putting ribbons on a fan to show air flowing. Or it's like if Kuririn said "Wow, Goku punched him in the face" after Goku punched Freeza in the face. We know! We just saw it.

Then I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree, in terms of how clear the themes were in Episode 66. I got something out of the dubbed version that I didn't in Crunchyroll's version. And I feel that way with much of the dub.

[gokaiblue]

Because even good actors have lousy performances. You might think one actor is bad in one role, but what if the actor blows you away in another? It just seems to me you're making these judgements based on your feelings on their Dragon Ball work alone.

Have any of them blown you away? I get your point. For instance, if you watched a lot of Stallone's work, it would be easy to call him a bad actor, but there are certain roles where he's legit great. However, none of the in-house dub cast has that level of performance. Most have roles they are moderately better at. I like Sabat as Piccolo and Vegeta, but those performances aren't vastly better than his average efforts.

I would say his Vegeta blows me away at times in Dragon Ball (especially in his emotional speeches in Kai as well as "That's my Bulma!). In regards to Sabat's other work, I would say he does very well as All Might in MHA. Sean Schemmel himself has some roles I don't even recognize him in. One such role is Black Doom in the 2005 video game Shadow tge Hedgehog. I could go on, but I feel I made my point.

The only ones of those that sound remotely professional are Ayres and Marsters. Schemmel can't utter a natural-sounding utterance in his Goku voice to save his life, and, after over two decades, still sounds like he really needs to take a dump every time Goku powers up. Sabat's Vegeta has the same issue with sounding natural as Schemmel, but he can't even maintain his emotion while doing the voice and he comes across as shouting blandly.

Like, I'm not talking scripting or anything. That's a whole barrel of worms I have no desire to get into. Schemmel and Sabat are trying too hard. What's worse is, they SOUND like they are trying to hard. You can hear the strain in their voices every time they go a decibel over conversation-level volume. And they absolutely cannot do more than the barest emoting when raising their voices. They are incapable of subtlety (which is a problem with virtually every aspect of the dub, going back to the 90s and encompassing essentially all aspects of it), and they come across as amateurish.

I honestly don't hear what you're saying in Sabat's and Schemmel's performances. Sabat's Vegeta I can kinda get, but even so, I still hear plenty of subtle emotional moments from him that are pretty natural. Schemmel's Goku is essentially just a raised version of his natural voice, so I don't get how you're hearing it as forced. Like Vegeta, he can be subtle (see: "I am" speech" in Kai) and can definitely emote when he gets past a decibel over conversation level such as when fighting Goku Black after Black's monologue.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

While I don't think FUNi cast are still a match for JPN cast from their prime* back in the day, I do think they easily surpass them in modern era DB (with the expection of F Trunks and maybe a few others) big one being Goku (there were so many stand out Goku and moments I didn't realise when re-watching the dub) and with new characters being about par.

*Honestly hearing the JPN cast from Z and then listening to DBS it was like quality whiplash!

[ABED]

What you are talking about isn't akin to scientist bringing complex principles down to a level the average person can understand. It's the equivalent of putting ribbons on a fan to show air flowing. Or it's like if Kuririn said "Wow, Goku punched him in the face" after Goku punched Freeza in the face. We know! We just saw it.

Then I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree, in terms of how clear the themes were in Episode 66. I got something out of the dubbed version that I didn't in Crunchyroll's version. And I feel that way with much of the dub.

Based on what I'm reading, they were clear. Clarity wasn't the issue, it's your understanding that was the issue. You are objectively wrong as your analogy doesn't apply at all.

I would say his Vegeta blows me away at times in Dragon Ball

That blows you away? I like his Vegeta, but it never blew me away. I know it sounds condescending, but what movies and TV shows do you watch outside of DB?

[WittyUsername]

Well, this topic seems to have more or less gone off the rails at this point. Let me just say that I regret ever asking this question. I should have known better than to make a dub related topic about Dragon Ball.

[Fionordequester]

Based on what I'm reading, they were clear. Clarity wasn't the issue, it's your understanding that was the issue. You are objectively wrong as your analogy doesn't apply at all.

Based on what I was reading (the Crunchyroll subs), they weren't clear, in my opinion. What makes me "objectively" wrong?

[ABED]

Based on what I'm reading, they were clear. Clarity wasn't the issue, it's your understanding that was the issue. You are objectively wrong as your analogy doesn't apply at all.

Based on what I was reading (the Crunchyroll subs), they weren't clear, in my opinion. What makes me "objectively" wrong?

Because it's not an example of an expert in a complex field of study bringing ideas down to a level graspable to a layperson. The example you used it literally another character narrating what we can see on screen.

[The Patrolman]

Well, this topic seems to have more or less gone off the rails at this point. Let me just say that I regret ever asking this question. I should have known better than to make a dub related topic about Dragon Ball.

Its okay man. Don't feel bad

[Fionordequester]

Because it's not an example of an expert in a complex field of study bringing ideas down to a level graspable to a layperson.

And I don't believe it's an example of Kuririn saying "Wow, Goku punched Freeza in the face!" after Goku punched Freeza in the face. What I found onscreen was harder to grasp than Goku punching someone.

[gokaiblue]

While I don't think FUNi cast are still a match for JPN cast from their prime* back in the day, I do think they easily surpass them in modern era DB (with the expection of F Trunks and maybe a few others) big one being Goku (there were so many stand out Goku and moments I didn't realise when re-watching the dub) and with new characters being about par.

*Honestly hearing the JPN cast from Z and then listening to DBS it was like quality whiplash!

I wouldn't say the FUNi cast easily surpasses them now but are neck in neck at this point (with regards to Joji Yanami). They're getting up there with the quality of the Japanese cast in their prime too, though. I think it'll be interesting to hear them once they've been doing it for 30 years.

I would say his Vegeta blows me away at times in Dragon Ball

That blows you away? I like his Vegeta, but it never blew me away. I know it sounds condescending, but what movies and TV shows do you watch outside of DB?

I would like to clarify what I meant by it blows me away. He doesn't redefine my expectations of an actor, but he does at times go places as Vegeta I never thought he could go. For example, before Kai, I would have never expected him to be able to evoke so much emotion as Vegeta other than just anger.

I watch a variety of things from Star Wars to Seinfeld btw, but here are just a few of my favorites besides Dragon Ball: Star Trek, Star Wars: Empire Strikes Back, Yellow Submarine, Star Trek (every show to DIS but that's simply because I haven't seen much of it), Tetsuwan Atom, Pokémon, Cowboy Bebop, Lupin the III part 4, and others.

[ABED]

Because it's not an example of an expert in a complex field of study bringing ideas down to a level graspable to a layperson.

And I don't believe it's an example of Kuririn saying "Wow, Goku punched Freeza in the face!" after Goku punched Freeza in the face. What I found onscreen was harder to grasp than Goku punching someone.

What was hard to grasp? Someone being ugly because they are falling apart?

I would like to clarify what I meant by it blows me away. He doesn't redefine my expectations of an actor, but he does at times go places as Vegeta I never thought he could go. For example, before Kai, I would have never expected him to be able to evoke so much emotion as Vegeta other than just anger.

I watch a variety of things from Star Wars to Seinfeld btw, but here are just a few of my favorites besides Dragon Ball: Star Trek, Star Wars: Empire Strikes Back, Yellow Submarine, Star Trek (every show to DIS but that's simply because I haven't seen much of it), Tetsuwan Atom, Pokémon, Cowboy Bebop, Lupin the III part 4, and others.

Fair enough, and I like Sabat's performance, but I think it's fair to say we're grading on a curve.

[gokaiblue]

I would like to clarify what I meant by it blows me away. He doesn't redefine my expectations of an actor, but he does at times go places as Vegeta I never thought he could go. For example, before Kai, I would have never expected him to be able to evoke so much emotion as Vegeta other than just anger.

I watch a variety of things from Star Wars to Seinfeld btw, but here are just a few of my favorites besides Dragon Ball: Star Trek, Star Wars: Empire Strikes Back, Yellow Submarine, Star Trek (every show to DIS but that's simply because I haven't seen much of it), Tetsuwan Atom, Pokémon, Cowboy Bebop, Lupin the III part 4, and others.

Fair enough, and I like Sabat's performance, but I think it's fair to say we're grading on a curve.

Not really sure. Maybe a slight one based on previous performances, but I think Sabat's Vegeta could stand on its own even without considering how far his performance as the character has come.

[WittyUsername]

Because it's not an example of an expert in a complex field of study bringing ideas down to a level graspable to a layperson.

And I don't believe it's an example of Kuririn saying "Wow, Goku punched Freeza in the face!" after Goku punched Freeza in the face. What I found onscreen was harder to grasp than Goku punching someone.

What was hard to grasp? Someone being ugly because they are falling apart?

I would like to clarify what I meant by it blows me away. He doesn't redefine my expectations of an actor, but he does at times go places as Vegeta I never thought he could go. For example, before Kai, I would have never expected him to be able to evoke so much emotion as Vegeta other than just anger.

I watch a variety of things from Star Wars to Seinfeld btw, but here are just a few of my favorites besides Dragon Ball: Star Trek, Star Wars: Empire Strikes Back, Yellow Submarine, Star Trek (every show to DIS but that's simply because I haven't seen much of it), Tetsuwan Atom, Pokémon, Cowboy Bebop, Lupin the III part 4, and others.

Fair enough, and I like Sabat's performance, but I think it's fair to say we're grading on a curve.

While I don’t care for the Funimation voices in general, I can’t help but wonder what exactly we’re supposed to be looking for in an anime dub? It’s not like they can hire Daniel Day Lewis or Denzel Washington. The fact that they were even able to get James Marsters was considered a big deal.

[ABED]

Fio, nothing about the original dialog/translation was unclear. It was all there. It's okay if you didn't immediately grasp it, but having the dialog spoonfeed the audience isn't good writing. I think audiences enjoy reaching a conclusion on their own, even an obvious one.

While I don’t care for the Funimation voices in general, I can’t help but wonder what exactly we’re supposed to be looking for in an anime dub? It’s not like they can hire Daniel Day Lewis or Denzel Washington. The fact that they were even able to get James Marsters was considered a big deal.

It's an over the top cartoon. I'm not looking for subtlety, though there is an art to good performances even in an over the top cartoon.

[Fionordequester]

What was hard to grasp? Someone being ugly because they are falling apart?

Well, part of it was the visual direction, too. But when I watched it for the first time, I never got the impression that Zamasu was literally falling apart. Sure, the right side of his body got ugly, and turned into purple goop. From the start of his fight with Vegetto, all the way until Trunks bisected him, he kept the same appearance. The only difference was that he got bigger. The dude fricken tanked a Final Kamehameha...and still looked no worse for wear. He simply leapt out of the dust and smoke, screaming "Behold! This is a god!", with a big smile on his face.

In my perfect world, his appearance would have been constantly getting worse as the episode went on. Have him start as the Merged Zamasu we all know at the start...but then have even that degenerate into a freakish abomination that would scare little children. By the time he weathered Vegetto's Final Kamehameha, the clothes on the right side of his body would've evaporated completely, he'd be missing an eye from his eye socket, his right cheek would be sunken in enough to where the right side of his jawbone is clearly visible, his arm would barely even look like a human arm (maybe have twisted, gnarled little stubs where his fingers used to be)...you see what I'm getting at.

But obviously, we're never going to get that. So if FUNimation felt the need to tell us something the animation itself didn't do a good enough job of telling us itself, I don't mind that at all.

[gokaiblue]

While I don’t care for the Funimation voices in general, I can’t help but wonder what exactly we’re supposed to be looking for in an anime dub? It’s not like they can hire Daniel Day Lewis or Denzel Washington. The fact that they were even able to get James Marsters was considered a big deal.

It's an over the top cartoon. I'm not looking for subtlety, though there is an art to good performances even in an over the top cartoon.

Yep, and personally, I feel the Funi cast (legacy actors and all) are doing a fine job in Super personally. The voices fit their characters, and they give good performances.

[WittyUsername]

It's an over the top cartoon. I'm not looking for subtlety, though there is an art to good performances even in an over the top cartoon.

The problem is that anime dubbing is pretty much a bottom of the barrel kind of job, so you’re definitely not going to get any Oscar winning actors in Dragon Ball. Hell, you’re not even going to get Mark Hamill. James Marsters is pretty much as high as it gets.

[ABED]

What was hard to grasp? Someone being ugly because they are falling apart?

Well, part of it was the visual direction, too. But when I watched it for the first time, I never got the impression that Zamasu was literally falling apart. Sure, the right side of his body got ugly, and turned into purple goop. From the start of his fight with Vegetto, all the way until Trunks bisected him, he kept the same appearance. The only difference was that he got bigger. The dude fricken tanked a Final Kamehameha...and still looked no worse for wear. He simply leapt out of the dust and smoke, screaming "Behold! This is a god!", with a big smile on his face.

In my perfect world, his appearance would have been constantly getting worse as the episode went on. Have him start as the Merged Zamasu we all know at the start...but then have even that degenerate into a freakish abomination that would scare little children. By the time he weathered Vegetto's Final Kamehameha, the clothes on the right side of his body would've evaporated completely, he'd be missing an eye from his eye socket, his right cheek would be sunken in enough to where the right side of his jawbone is clearly visible, his arm would barely even look like a human arm (maybe have twisted, gnarled little stubs where his fingers used to be)...you see what I'm getting at.

But obviously, we're never going to get that. So if FUNimation felt the need to tell us something the animation itself didn't do a good enough job of telling us itself, I don't mind that at all.

Was his body falling apart at the time of the lines in question?

Hell, you’re not even going to get Mark Hamill. James Marsters is pretty much as high as it gets.

Hamill's a bigger name than Marsters, but not a better actor.

[DB_Fan1991]

I read through this topic thoroughly and I must say this, is this how the fanbase acted when Season 3 started in 1999? My god I have never seen so much fighting about the dub now in the 10 years I've been following this franchise. I am disappointed with almost everyone who has contributed to this thread. Most of you guys sound like schoolyard bullies picking on the fat kid. I should know I was the fat kid when I was that age.

If you guys really want to see a bad dub watch the dubs of Pokemon XY & Pokemon Sun & Moon. Now those are bad dubs. At least FUNimation realized that replacement scores were a dumb idea. TPCi still hasn't, you will have episodes now that only keep the episode's title screen music and the rest is wall to wall dub music. This last movie, I Choose You was slaughtered in the dub. The Japanese version mostly used remixes of old Kanto tracks while the dub only kept 1 piece of Japanese music, the piece that ends the movie which was a variant of the Ending theme to the Gen 1 games. Need I mention how bad the scripts have gotten? Team Rocket rhymes and alliterates up the wazoo, Ash always says "I'm psyched", the list goes on and on and the voice acting good god is worse than FUNi's was in Season 3.

Sarah Natochenny has been playing Ash for 12 years now and she still doesn't know Ash the way Veronica Taylor did, to Sarah's credit she did come close in the I Choose You movie only to regress at the start of the current season. Michele Knotz is the only one that I consider good as her Misty & Jessie still sounds like what Rachael Lillis did with them. James Cathcart's James & Meowth are worse now than when they started in Season 9. Eric Stuart & Maddie Blaustein they will never be, Bill Rogers was a decent Brock as well. Knotz started off rough with May, but got better as Season 9 progressed and peaked in the Manaphy movie. When May returned in Diamond & Pearl she was still good. Kayzie Rogers as Max was just wrong though. Trust me the dub of Dragon Ball Super is nowhere near as bad as what TPCi has been doing with Pokemon since 2014. The DB fanbase has it great in comparison. I think Super's dub is fine. Yes some of the theme song dubs are lousy, but that's about it.

[ABED]

Having it better in comparison doesn't make something great or even good.