New "Remastered Box Set" Information

[SonGokuGT]

Although they were animated in 4:3, FUNimation Zoomed in at some points to avoid some of the debris in the original copies given to them by Toei. So maybe they mean that... It is possible that the film was wider in ratio than the final 4:3... This is if they did their own re-mastering from the film and are not using the DragonBox sets, which is what we're all leaning towards by now.

[Li'l Lemmy]

I could very well turn out to be wrong, but I can't see how any part of what FUNimation just said regarding our concerns could be interpreted as anything but good news.

And so . . .

. . . but until we have confirmation of what's exactly what, we have dick.

So I think we should give FUNi some credit while we can and see what turns up. Believe with me!

Now I ask you again. Believe with me!

[BrollysKin]

I could very well turn out to be wrong, but I can't see how any part of what FUNimation just said regarding our concerns could be interpreted as anything but good news.

And so . . .

. . . but until we have confirmation of what's exactly what, we have dick.

So I think we should give FUNi some credit while we can and see what turns up. Believe with me!

Now I ask you again. Believe with me!

As I have said for many moons.

[b_boult]

I still have concerns. Even if we're getting extra footage from the side that was never used in 4:3 tv episodes, I doubt any of that will be important, whereas the top and bottom parts that are being cut will be important as the show was animated knowing these parts would be visible on screen.

To be honest though, I won't be that unhappy about the widescreen issue if they actually take the show frame by frame (they're doing this anyway for the high definition scanning process) and figure out which part of the image to crop in order to keep the best bits relative to that frame rather than LETTERBOXING THE ENTIRE EPISODE at the push of the button regardless of each frames different needs.

[Blitzen]

I could very well turn out to be wrong, but I can't see how any part of what FUNimation just said regarding our concerns could be interpreted as anything but good news.

Except that from this current point in time, there has never EVER been more than 4:3 versions of DBZ TV released so the entire statement is either uninformed, or a load of utter crap. Sure, there ismore footage on the original film than there is on the Beta masters or whatever that FUNimation have, but the big problem is still that DBZ TV WAS NEVER ANIMATED AT 16:9 AND WAS NEVER MEANT TO BE 16:9. So we get a little bit extra on the sides, but a lot cut off the top, and unlike the movies, it wasn't properly animated for such a presentation.

[Tenken]

I'm with Lemmy on this. I guess we just have to trust that they know what they are doing. To be honest, they've given us far too much in these sets to screw them up.

(that's not to say they won't screw them up... o_o )

[Li'l Lemmy]

Except that from this current point in time, there has never EVER been more than 4:3 versions of DBZ TV released so the entire statement is either uninformed, or a load of utter crap. Sure, there ismore footage on the original film than there is on the Beta masters or whatever that FUNimation have, but the big problem is still that DBZ TV WAS NEVER ANIMATED AT 16:9 AND WAS NEVER MEANT TO BE 16:9. So we get a little bit extra on the sides, but a lot cut off the top, and unlike the movies, it wasn't properly animated for such a presentation.

There's a fine possibility that your suspicions are every bit justified. Absolutely. But despite that this is unlike anything we have ever heard before, that FUNimation could be going down a road even Toei didn't, I think we should reserve the bulk of our judgement until we're shown some sort of example shots, like a comparison between the old DVDs and the new-- and I mean REAL ones, like what was demonstrated at the conventions. I wouldn't take what we see in the trailer at face value at all, because that was very theatrical and most likely was not a true representation of what they've done for widescreen.

(that's not to say they won't screw them up... o_o )

I'll admit that there's always that chance. We have to consider their track record. But I really think that after this many years they finally have come to an understanding of what we want and are making the very best effort they can with our concerns in mind (for once!), or they wouldn't have even tried to release these sets in the first place.

I don't know too much about video. But I'm willing to wait and see what it looks like. This could be a whole new start for a show we love that by all counts could just as well have been abandoned long ago.

[b_boult]

But I really think that after this many years they finally have come to an understanding of what we want and are making the very best effort they can with our concerns in mind (for once!), or they wouldn't have even tried to release these sets in the first place.

I honestly don't think Funimation care about what the fans want as much as I would like to hope that. This is more about saving face because for their flagship series to have been released in such a jigsaw mess (and without certain pieces) it reflects badly on them as a company. They know that not as many people care about the series these days they just need to put a huge mess right. And believe it or not I am a fan of the dub for the most part.

[Li'l Lemmy]

I honestly don't think Funimation care about what the fans want as much as I would like to hope that. This is more about saving face because for their flagship series to have been released in such a jigsaw mess (and without certain pieces) it reflects badly on them as a company. They know that not as many people care about the series these days they just need to put a huge mess right. And believe it or not I am a fan of the dub for the most part.

Are they a warm, fuzzy company who want to give us huggles and smoochies until we smile so hard our faces fall off? No. But somehow there's a part of me that believes they want to do right by us and that they know this is their chance. Yes, it's mostly about the money, but the interchangeable dub BGM alone shows that they're trying to please a broader audience.

I'm a fan of the dub, too. For a long time. And look at what they did with it. They dubbed the entire series, they made the undertaking and followed through to finish it. Is it perfect? Hell no. But as much as we complain about it, the truth is that they don't owe us jack shit, because they never had to try.

Don't like the dub? We're still covered. They've put a 500+ episode series to subtitles when they could have stopped at 50 or 100 or not bothered at all, and now they're going to go back to those same episodes and release them all over again-- not just as they were, but shelling out the extra cash to have it remastered.

I do think they're concerned about their image, but not enough where they would go through all this trouble. They could have finished the Ultimate Uncuts and washed their hands of the whole affair right then and there. But they didn't.

(Check your PM box.)

EDIT: There's a poster on Mulder's office wall. It says I WANT TO BELIEVE.

[tarsonis]

Agreed, Lemmy. We've got it pretty good, compared to the way certain other companies treat their properties.

[Kaboom]

Hit the nail on the head, Lemmy. Even in regards to DragonBall, FUNimation has done a very good job, especially compared to other companies.

*Cough* Death to 4Kids! *cough*

[DaemonCorps]

Right. I've got homework, so forgive me if some of this stuff is basically everyone else's echo.

Well, FUNi's w00tness points have gone a bit up due to this, but (as a bunch of you've already said) widescreen?! Well, I guess my widescreen TV will be good for something.

"The Dragon Ball Z series was digitally transferred from the original Japanese film frame by frame at 1080p."

Does this mean that the film won't be moving around all over the place? Translation: If one were to put up a bush in front of Gohan's wang for these new releases, would it look like it were flying all over the place, or no?

And as for that High-Def thing, we know for a fact that it'll be on DVD, so that means it won't be "true" HD, but I'm sure that like Disney's movie DVD releases, the video condition will be umm... "raised" to the point that it's as close to HD without being actual HD.

:whew: I'm done. Now what's with all of these users popping in out of nowhere? It's like the Vegeta Saga announcement all over again (well, technicall, I guess it is ).

EDIT: And yeah, Lemmy's pretty much hit it home with that whole FUNi thing. I find it strange that they've actually done something for us fans after all these years...

[Li'l Lemmy]

I'll tell you something I am concerned about.

The subtitles. I don't know a lot about what other people think with regards to this area, but I think the font and size of the subtitles we've been getting is perfect, and I would like very much for it not to change with these new sets.

I can't tell you how many other shows have a subtitle track that just looks intrusive or out-of-place. (Any of the Simpsons DVD sets for example; great content, multiple languages, crapload of extras-- not-so-good subtitles.) And while for most of them it doesn't make a whit of difference, being primarily English entertainment, it obviously factors in heavily when it comes to someone watching the original Japanese track on a DB/Z/GT DVD: if the subtitles take up too much of the screen, are the wrong color or just look like crap, then it partially detracts from the experience.

I'll still buy these new sets, guaranteed. But I'll be hoping that this particular feature doesn't change.

Does this mean that the film won't be moving around all over the place? Translation: If one were to put up a bush in front of Gohan's wang for these new releases, would it look like it were flying all over the place, or no?

The bush or his wang? . . . OH, wait; I get it now. Stupid me. Can we really hope for film like that?

[Blitzen]

Thanks lemmy. now I can mentally replace the next three or more posts with *insert Steve Simmons wankfest*. Darn you, Vegeta, all those innocent people!

I think the subtitles are carried over onto every FUNimation release, like, the same colour, font, size, etc. Some people think they look fairly awful, where in other places they're fine (they look absolutely fucked on the Kodocha OP on the DVDs because it already has a lot of white text, so it clashes).

[DaemonCorps]

They could always split up seasons by doing a "Season X Volume 1" and "Season X Volume 2" for certain seasons, mainly 4 and 6, just to keep the episode count down there with the rest.

Ugh, I hope they don't do that. From what we know (or think we know), FUNi has dropped the idea of sagas and is jumping on the bandwagon of seasons. I dunno, I just think the idea of having a season 4, volume 1 type of thing is stupid (:cough: referencing to the later Spongebob season set).

I think we should reserve the bulk of our judgement until we're shown some sort of example shots, like a comparison between the old DVDs and the new-- and I mean REAL ones, like what was demonstrated at the conventions. I wouldn't take what we see in the trailer at face value at all, because that was very theatrical and most likely was not a true representation of what they've done for widescreen.

Agreed. It's kinda like seeing a movie trailer. Not all of those scenes will necessarilly make the cut to the actual movie. I'm either counting on there being a fullscreen choice, or a fullscreen separate release altogether. Still in the dark for some stuff (and confused courtesy of that "Response to Dragon Ball Z Season One Inquiries" thing) I'm holding on to my old DVDs for a while longer, not that I won't be buying this release. As mentioned before, the pros outweigh the cons.

[Li'l Lemmy]

Ugh, I hope they don't do that. From what we know (or think we know), FUNi has dropped the idea of sagas and is jumping on the bandwagon of seasons. I dunno, I just think the idea of having a season 4, volume 1 type of thing is stupid (:cough: referencing to the later Spongebob season set).

I've seen that sort of thing a lot lately. I hate it! Point it out to me if I'm wrong, but I honestly can't see any other reason for a decision like that except to stretch out the release schedule and make a larger profit off of what should be one whole season. Why release the first three seasons of SpongeBob in entire volumes and then divide Season 4?

DBZ did it too, but at least with them it made a lick of sense; it was an anime, and sagas that big kinda had to be broken up. But if FUNimation is going with the "Season" tag for these re-releases, then I sure hope they do their best to maintain a consistency in the amount of episodes per set. I know Majin Buu won't be put all into one box, but I don't want it put into three or four either; we already did that, remember?

Still in the dark for some stuff (and confused courtesy of that "Response to Dragon Ball Z Season One Inquiries" thing) I'm holding on to my old DVDs for a while longer, not that I won't be buying this release. As mentioned before, the pros outweigh the cons.

They do for me, too.

[InfernoSoul]

I am sure new gen DVD players support it but not all. I have heard of them using the WMV HD compression to get this to work with DVD-ROM.

Actually, the new DVD players (HD-DVD and BluRay) support both new Video Codecs, H.264 and VC-1 (VC-1 is lead by Microsoft, and is basically already incorporated into the WMV version 9 they have in WMV files, just at larger bit rates).

I'm with you though on them thinking thru the widescreen. The 16:9 is the standard, and if they ever want to release the series in the future on HD-DVD or Blu-Ray, they will already have it setup to go, so it would basically be at a much lower cost to them to do so. Players are coming down the pipeline that play both HD-DVD and BluRay (just like DVD players/burners handle both -R and +R versions). So in the end, it probably won't matter, but I'm guessing after all the DVDs are out, they'll release it all again in HD (probably under HD-DVD, I hear those are cheaper to produce than a BluRay disc). The fact that they are all widescreen would point more toward a future release in the HD formats.

Then the question is, do you pass this by potentially and get the HD sets if they ever came out? Afterall, how many version do you want to buy? DBZ in higher than DVD resolution would only be that much more awesome!

I know that. I was referring to them using that WMV HD compression on DVD-ROMs not Blu-Ray or HD-DVD. That is how you will be able to get 1080p from a DVD as they stated in(1080p, widescreen, dvd, ect). They use that compression(WMV HD) and most newer gen regular DVD players(excluding blu-ray and hd-dvd players) can send 1080p signals. I am not to sure about the exact details but I have read a little about it. Either way 1080p epsidoes thats has to take up some massive space so I am surprised they can fit 8 episodes and all the extras on a DVD even if it is a dual layer.

[MajinVejitaXV]

I know that. I was referring to them using that WMV HD compression on DVD-ROMs not Blu-Ray or HD-DVD. That is how you will be able to get 1080p from a DVD as they stated in(1080p, widescreen, dvd, ect). They use that compression(WMV HD) and most newer gen regular DVD players(excluding blu-ray and hd-dvd players) can send 1080p signals. I am not to sure about the exact details but I have read a little about it. Either way 1080p epsidoes thats has to take up some massive space so I am surprised they can fit 8 episodes and all the extras on a DVD even if it is a dual layer.

Not possible. In order for a DVD to be released, it has to comply to MPEG-2 standards for DVD, which are specified as a max resolution of 720x480 for NTSC video streams.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD-Video <-- Here, read for yourself.

Now, could they add that WMV HD version in 1080p as an extra on a seperate disc? Sure, that's what Terminator 2 had.

As for this "it's not less, it's more!" thing...wow, I've never heard anything more wrong. Yes, FUNi zoomed marginally to avoid some problems with their original masters, but just because they restored 1% on the sides doesn't mean it's a widescreen master. Hell, owners of DB/Z/GT cels can verify that.

The only things that were intended to be widescreen were the movies, and they were only animated on 4:3 film because it was cheaper to produce. This is a *huge* goof, IMHO.

-Corey

[Li'l Lemmy]

I know that. I was referring to them using that WMV HD compression on DVD-ROMs not Blu-Ray or HD-DVD. That is how you will be able to get 1080p from a DVD as they stated in(1080p, widescreen, dvd, ect). They use that compression(WMV HD) and most newer gen regular DVD players(excluding blu-ray and hd-dvd players) can send 1080p signals. I am not to sure about the exact details but I have read a little about it. Either way 1080p epsidoes thats has to take up some massive space so I am surprised they can fit 8 episodes and all the extras on a DVD even if it is a dual layer.

And . . .

Not possible. In order for a DVD to be released, it has to comply to MPEG-2 standards for DVD, which are specified as a max resolution of 720x480 for NTSC video streams.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD-Video <-- Here, read for yourself.

Now, could they add that WMV HD version in 1080p as an extra on a seperate disc? Sure, that's what Terminator 2 had.

Wow. Sometimes I wish I could just leap into a technical conversation like this, because regardless of which of you is actually correct it really looks at though you guys have some sense of what you're talking about. But the more I look at it, the more . . . hurting my brain feels looking at . . . things . . . you say.

Ow! Me brain hurt bad!

The only things that were intended to be widescreen were the movies, and they were only done on 4:3 film because it was cheaper to produce. This is a *huge* goof, IMHO.

Well, as you said many times before-- time will tell. I still want to see what the actual film looks like to get the best possible idea of what we're in for, be it in motion or just a comparative screenshot.

[MajinVejitaXV]

Wow. Sometimes I wish I could just leap into a technical conversation like this, because regardless of which of you is actually correct it really looks at though you guys have some sense of what you're talking about. But the more I look at it, the more . . . hurting my brain feels looking at . . . things . . . you say.

Ow! Me brain hurt bad!

[...]

Well, as you said many times before-- time will tell. I still want to see what the actual film looks like to get the best possible idea of what we're in for, be it in motion or just a comparative screenshot.

Eh, I'm not trying to show off, I'm just stating fact. Most forms of digital media have to conform to set specs (DVD's comply with the specs set forth by the DVD Forum, audio CD's conform to the 'Red Book' standard, etc) in order to assure maximum compatibility across the board. I mean, imagine what a mess it would be to design hardware if there was no set specification for things

And yes, time will tell. However, so far, I'm less than impressed with FUNi's damage control. Yes, they are technically telling the truth about more picture if they had the masters corrected so they don't have to zoom in on the picture to hide overlay problems and so forth...however they're completely negating that action (~4-5% lost by the initial zooming vs. ~20% lost by letterboxing) by letterboxing the animation when it wasn't produced in a manner as the movies were to minimize if not eliminate loss of footage.

We'll see. I'll just say it's not the answer I would be seeking, and I'm kind of insulted that they're trying to pass things off as they are.

-Corey

Edit - Someone says on AoD that it's 4-5% lost by FUNi's zooms, so I changed my figure. If someone can prove one way or the way, please do.