Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Hugo Boss]

I’m a Super Saiyan who’s a Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan God.

This is really how it should be translated?! The "Saiyan" in the middle seems kind of unnecessary if preceeded by "who's". I guess I'm a Super Saiyan of a Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan God makes more sense if you want to defend a different interpretation.

[Khin]

How strong do you guys think the Universe 7 team have become in those preparation for the tournament? i think

If Piccolo/Buu WILL receive a huge boost:

Buu = As strong as Base Goku (ROF)
Piccolo = As strong as SSGSS Goku (ROF)
Vegeta = As strong as Golden Freeza
Goku = Same as Vegeta
Monaca = Stronger than Golden Freeza but weaker than Champa

If Piccolo/Buu will NOT recieve a huge boost:
Piccolo = As strong as SSJ2 Goku (Buu Saga)
Buu = As strong as SSJ Gotenks (Post ROSAT)

[Bullza]

Can Buu get any stronger?

Piccolo I'd just guess would be around the level of a Cell Jr if he doesn't have a significant power boost.

And you'd think if Goku and Vegeta are gonna train in the ROSAT for 3 years that they should have long surpassed Beerus by that point.

[Khin]

And you'd think if Goku and Vegeta are gonna train in the ROSAT for 3 years that they should have long surpassed Beerus by that point.

Thats also what comes to my mind when i first heard about the ROSAT training.But now,i just ignore the 6-10-15 thing that AT come up years ago.It seems DBS changed that.

[dbgtFO]

And you'd think if Goku and Vegeta are gonna train in the ROSAT for 3 years that they should have long surpassed Beerus by that point.

Agreed, but they probably won't* and if that happens it's a prime example of why giving out power levels can be such a detriment to the story, because now we'd have to believe that Goku and Vegeta train and train and train, but are still weaker than Beerus, who was less than 2 times more powerful than SSG Goku. It becomes pretty ridiculous, especially, when we are told again and again, that they have grown a lot stronger, but are still weaker than Beerus.
I think it makes sense for the anime to have left out the "you went as far as 70% against SSG" line by Whis, but they had already ruined it with Beerus' 10% line against Rageta.

*On the other hand I could see Goku and Vegeta having finally reached or surpassed the level of Beerus at the Tournament. Consider that they hadn't completed their training under Whis, when Freeza returned, so it's reasonable that weren't yet on Beerus' level much less Whis'.
But now they train on their own(although I'm pretty sure Whis hasn't given them a "there's nothing more I can teach you" line yet), so it could make sense they'll surpass Beerus.

[Khin]

And you'd think if Goku and Vegeta are gonna train in the ROSAT for 3 years that they should have long surpassed Beerus by that point.

Agreed, but they probably won't* and if that happens it's a prime example of why giving out power levels can be such a detriment to the story, because now we'd have to believe that Goku and Vegeta train and train and train, but are still weaker than Beerus, who was less than 2 times more powerful than SSG Goku. It becomes pretty ridiculous, especially, when we are told again and again, that they have grown a lot stronger, but are still weaker than Beerus.
I think it makes sense for the anime to have left out the "you went as far as 70% against SSG" line by Whis, but they had already ruined it with Beerus' 10% line against Rageta.

*On the other hand I could see Goku and Vegeta having finally reached or surpassed the level of Beerus at the Tournament. Consider that they hadn't completed their training under Whis, when Freeza returned, so it's reasonable that weren't yet on Beerus' level much less Whis'.
But now they train on their own(although I'm pretty sure Whis hasn't given them a "there's nothing more I can teach you" line yet), so it could make sense they'll surpass Beerus.

Goku or Vegeta already surpassing Beerus this early will not make any sense,that would mean Goku and Vegeta will wipe the floor with the Unverse 6 team easily unless of course the there's also guy in Universe 6 team that is also stronger than Beerus/Champa which is very unlikely.

[LightBing]

And you'd think if Goku and Vegeta are gonna train in the ROSAT for 3 years that they should have long surpassed Beerus by that point.

Agreed, but they probably won't* and if that happens it's a prime example of why giving out power levels can be such a detriment to the story, because now we'd have to believe that Goku and Vegeta train and train and train, but are still weaker than Beerus, who was less than 2 times more powerful than SSG Goku. It becomes pretty ridiculous, especially, when we are told again and again, that they have grown a lot stronger, but are still weaker than Beerus.
I think it makes sense for the anime to have left out the "you went as far as 70% against SSG" line by Whis, but they had already ruined it with Beerus' 10% line against Rageta.

*On the other hand I could see Goku and Vegeta having finally reached or surpassed the level of Beerus at the Tournament. Consider that they hadn't completed their training under Whis, when Freeza returned, so it's reasonable that weren't yet on Beerus' level much less Whis'.
But now they train on their own(although I'm pretty sure Whis hasn't given them a "there's nothing more I can teach you" line yet), so it could make sense they'll surpass Beerus.

Goku or Vegeta already surpassing Beerus this early will not make any sense,that would mean Goku and Vegeta will wipe the floor with the Unverse 6 team easily unless of course the there's also guy in Universe 6 team that is also stronger than Beerus/Champa which is very unlikely.

Yeah, in this new realm of power I think the gains will be much slower. No more tripling one's power by each arc. SSJB could have easily doubled the Saiyans power and made them stronger than Beerus.
Even so, they should be catching up to at least Champa during the tournament.

[GodVegetto91]

Come to think of it.
i don't see HOW they could possibly beat our team..
just think about it. We have both Goku and Vegeta who's strength at this point needs no introduction anymore.. And if the leaks are indeed true then that means they have trained for another whole 3 years inside the RoSaT.. They're Legendary Super Saiyan God Super Saiyans who are being trained by Whis. Then we've got an opponent who has Beerus' full on confidence. And who's the strongest person Beerus ever fought. And as a Bonus we've got Majin Buu(many haxed abilities) aswell as Piccolo.

Now i've seen those guys from the opposing team.(yes yes i know never judge a book by it's cover) but unless they're God of Destructions(or beings like Whis) i just CAN'T see them even come close to touching Goku and Vegeta the way they are now. Not even mention Monaca who's likely even stronger then them. If universe 6 has any chance of winning than Akira Toriyama better finds a really good reason.

[Doctor.]

Come to think of it.
i don't see HOW they could possibly beat our team..
just think about it. We have both Goku and Vegeta who's strength at this point needs no introduction anymore.. And if the leaks are indeed true then that means they have trained for another whole 3 years inside the RoSaT.. They're Legendary Super Saiyan God Super Saiyans who are being trained by Whis. Then we've got an opponent who has Beerus' full on confidence. And who's the strongest person Beerus ever fought. And as a Bonus we've got Majin Buu(many haxed abilities) aswell as Piccolo.

Now i've seen those guys from the opposing team.(yes yes i know never judge a book by it's cover) but unless they're God of Destructions(or beings like Whis) i just CAN'T see them even come close to touching Goku and Vegeta the way they are now. Not even mention Monaca who's likely even stronger then them. If universe 6 has any chance of winning than Akira Toriyama better finds a really good reason.

Why not? It's a completely different universe, we know nothing about their past or strength. They could all be stronger than Champa and Vados for all we know, and they're just helping them because they're friends. A different universe is the perfect explanation for any crazy power that Toriyama wants to give new characters, just like outer space was the perfect explanation for the crazy power he gave the Saiyans and Freeza's army.

[ekrolo2]

Goku and Vegeta training in the ROSAT for three years shouldn't automatically make them stronger than Beerus or break the godscale. Remember, after you use it once the ROSATs strength gains shrink considerably as evidenced by what happened to Trunks and Vegeta. Since both Goku and Vegeta are at a level where the environment doesn't bother them, the ROSAT is essentially a quick way for them to get a lot of practice, refine SSB or whatever in instead of trying to attain massive gains in power.

I wouldn't be surprised if they're only marginally stronger now than before they went in, for example, they'd both be 7.5-8 in SSB and post ROSAT they're 8-8.5

[Birusu16]

People really should just ignore the 6/10/15 scale. That was thrown out back when Whis decided to say Goku and Vegeta's power (this is when they had the same power as SSJG) was the size of a small tree compared to Beerus' whose power was the size of his huge tree.

Beerus clearly held back a lot more than 70% of his power against SSJG Goku. That's really the only logical conclusion at this point.

[GodVegetto91]

Come to think of it.
i don't see HOW they could possibly beat our team..
just think about it. We have both Goku and Vegeta who's strength at this point needs no introduction anymore.. And if the leaks are indeed true then that means they have trained for another whole 3 years inside the RoSaT.. They're Legendary Super Saiyan God Super Saiyans who are being trained by Whis. Then we've got an opponent who has Beerus' full on confidence. And who's the strongest person Beerus ever fought. And as a Bonus we've got Majin Buu(many haxed abilities) aswell as Piccolo.

Now i've seen those guys from the opposing team.(yes yes i know never judge a book by it's cover) but unless they're God of Destructions(or beings like Whis) i just CAN'T see them even come close to touching Goku and Vegeta the way they are now. Not even mention Monaca who's likely even stronger then them. If universe 6 has any chance of winning than Akira Toriyama better finds a really good reason.

Why not? It's a completely different universe, we know nothing about their past or strength. They could all be stronger than Champa and Vados for all we know, and they're just helping them because they're friends. A different universe is the perfect explanation for any crazy power that Toriyama wants to give new characters, just like outer space was the perfect explanation for the crazy power he gave the Saiyans and Freeza's army.

Because it doesn't make sense and most of all shouldn't be allowed in accordance to the universal Hierarchy..
God of Destruction>>>>>>Everyone else in his respective universe that he governs.(except for his attendant/martial arts master ofcourse.. For obvious reasons) HOWEVER... I might be willing to make an exception for Goku and Vegeta ofcourse in the future. since they're Saiyans ofcourse who have limitless potential and always keep growing stronger. And ofcourse they're the main characters of the show. What you just said makes me sick through my stomach.. A native to universe 6 (regular alien being no less) stronger than Champa and Vados? That's just bad writing to me. And if Akira Toriyama ever does something like that i'm done with this show.

The God of Destruction should always be the strongest in his universe.. (excluding his attendant/martial arts master ofcourse)

[Birusu16]

It's very unlikely that anyone on Champa's team is stronger than him and Vados.

[GodVegetto91]

It's very unlikely that anyone on Champa's team is stronger than him and Vados.

Let's hope so. For Gods sake.
for LOGIC'S sake!

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I’m a Super Saiyan who’s a Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan God.

This is really how it should be translated?! The "Saiyan" in the middle seems kind of unnecessary if preceeded by "who's". I guess I'm a Super Saiyan of a Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan God makes more sense if you want to defend a different interpretation.

In base, he is a Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan God. In Super Saiyan, he is a Super Saiyan who is a Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan God. If you believe that base Goku is much weaker than SSG Goku for some reason, then of course it won't make any sense.

Can Buu get any stronger?

In DBO, where Toriyama supervised & approved everything, had Majins who could get stronger through training, so Boo should be able to get stronger as well.

[Doctor.]

The God of Destruction should always be the strongest in his universe.

Why is this a rule? This has never been established. Gods have been introduced in the series before and were easily surpassed. Just like God and Popo were introduced and surpassed easily once the series expanded to space, Gods like Beerus and Whis are now being introduced and will be surpassed easily now that the series is expanding to different universes. A new universe is a different setting, there are different rules. Just because the God of Destruction and his assistant are the strongest in ONE universe does not mean this has to be case in ALL of them, that's just being painfully uncreative and shooting yourself in the foot by adding unnecessary limitations.

[Noah]

I think Goku/Vegeta will only surpass Beerus after U6 Arc, and then if we get more content after this Arc, they probably will surpass Vados/Whis in End of Super

[GodVegetto91]

The God of Destruction should always be the strongest in his universe.

Why is this a rule? This has never been established. Gods have been introduced in the series before and were easily surpassed. Just like God and Popo were introduced and surpassed easily once the series expanded to space, Gods like Beerus and Whis are now being introduced and will be surpassed easily now that the series is expanding to different universes. A new universe is a different setting, there are different rules. Just because the God of Destruction and his assistant are the strongest in ONE universe does not mean this has to be case in ALL of them, that's just being painfully uncreative and shooting yourself in the foot by adding unnecessary limitations.

It should be the rule IMO. After all it's in their name. What you said about the other gods in the past is indeed true. Korin, Mr. Popo, Kami even North Kaio and Kaioshin have all been surpassed indeed.. But however. They were different kind of gods. It wasn't in their name to destroy or anything. They didn't even need any physical strength for their jobs. Their Job was watching over things. And ofcourse Creating planets and life(the Kaioshins) However Beerus on the other hand was litterally made to Destroy. It's in his name. Being a destroyer God and having to destroy planets/galaxies, life whatever on a daily basis requiers an amazing amount of power in order to fulfill your job. So it would only make sense that a God of Destruction shouldn't be (so easily surpassed) and i have already stated that i have decided to make an exception for Goku and Vegeta. Since they have now God Powers too(Again the God of the saiyans, A WARRIOR RACE) and as a saiyan they have the potential to keep growing stronger and stronger after every fight or training session and since they're the main characters of the show it should only make sense that they are eventually going to Surpass Beerus and Whis.

And are the only ones who deserve to be capable of it at some point in the future.

[Doctor.]

Characters have been able to destroy planets since the Saiyan arc. You really do not need a character as strong as Beerus to be a God of Destruction, all you need is someone on, say, Freeza's level. Beerus was made that strong so that he could be a match for Goku, just like how Freeza was powered-up so much in F, so that he could match Goku's power. Goku and Vegeta are almost at Beerus' level, if we go by the rule that he can't be surpassed, then you'll never find any opponents for Goku and Vegeta besides other Gods of Destruction. And wouldn't it be incredibly boring if the only people Goku and Vegeta have a hard time against are Gods of Destruction?

Freeza getting so strong didn't work because he got an unexplained power boost in a short amount of time. But this is a different universe, we don't know anything about how characters train, how characters power-up, nothing at all. This is the perfect opportunity to introduce super strong characters without having to worry about the explanations that you'd normally have to give for their strength. Why take that away?

[GodVegetto91]

Characters have been able to destroy planets since the Saiyan arc. You really do not need a character as strong as Beerus to be a God of Destruction, all you need is someone on, say, Freeza's level. Beerus was made that strong so that he could be a match for Goku, just like how Freeza was powered-up so much in F, so that he could match Goku's power. Goku and Vegeta are almost at Beerus' level, if we go by the rule that he can't be surpassed, then you'll never find any opponents for Goku and Vegeta besides other Gods of Destruction. And wouldn't it be incredibly boring if the only people Goku and Vegeta have a hard time against are Gods of Destruction?

Freeza getting so strong didn't work because he got an unexplained power boost in a short amount of time. But this is a different universe, we don't know anything about how characters train, how characters power-up, nothing at all. This is the perfect opportunity to introduce super strong characters without having to worry about the explanations that you'd normally have to give for their strength. Why take that away?

I strongly disagree with all of that. A God Of Destruction (going by it's name alone SHOULD be the most overpowered being) and this is also the reason why they had him appear after Majin Buu. A destroyer god as weak as saiyans-Frieza should be Laughable. And yeah. That's exactly what i want out of this series. Goku and Vegeta fighting of against the 12 Gods of Destruction.(and maybe that Dragon God who created the Super Dragon Balls) though we don't know much about him yet.

Any other being should be Fodder to them.