The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[rereboy]

The strength Tenshinhan felt was said to be nowhere near the full power of Freeza. Apparently, Tenshinhan even forgot to sense Trunks' and Goku's kis when they quick-tested themselves.

He felt Freeza trying to kill a SSJ (no reason at all for Freeza to be holding back then) and he felt the energy of SSJ Trunks and SSJ Goku. And he is still amazed by sick SSJ Goku three years later.

[Hugo Boss]

The strength Tenshinhan felt was said to be nowhere near the full power of Freeza. Apparently, Tenshinhan even forgot to sense Trunks' and Goku's kis when they quick-tested themselves.

He felt Freeza trying to kill a SSJ (no reason at all for Freeza to be holding back then) and he felt the energy of SSJ Trunks and SSJ Goku. And he is still amazed by sick SSJ Goku three years later.

We assume Tenshinhan sensed their energy back then. But the way he talks about Goku is like he never witnessed the power of a Super Saiyan before. It's weird.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Tenshinhan felt Freeza's strength three years ago yet a weakened SSJ Goku was still "incredible." So yeah, putting Gero and 19 in Freeza's tier would be a fair assumption.

Goku didn't have a ki sickness that lowered his battle power. His whole physical condition was in deep shit. The fighters aren't merely numbers.

[rereboy]

We assume Tenshinhan sensed their energy back then. But the way he talks about Goku is like he never witnessed the power of a Super Saiyan before. It's weird.

Yes, its weird, but I think its more of an issue of his statement being poorly phrased in the manga than anything else.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

We're assuming Tenshinhan sensed Yardrat SSJ Goku?

Spoiler:

Pretty much everyone at the Android fight had at least sensed Mecha arc SSJ Trunks' ki. If Goku's ki was weaker than that Trunks, they should've came to the conclusion #19 was the wrong Android, but they didn't.

[Hugo Boss]

We're assuming Tenshinhan sensed Yardrat SSJ Goku?

Yes, because in your scan Yamcha said Goku has a huge ki. But what Tenshinhan says when Goku fights No.19?

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Really? Tenshinhan is sweating and gawking only because Goku changed his hair color? I guess while everyone is commenting on Goku's ki, Tenshinhan just forgot he can sense ki and is completely flabbergasted just because Goku slightly changed his appearance?

[Hugo Boss]

I assume that, given what Yamcha said, Tenshinhan also sensed Goku's ki as a Super Saiyan. I don't understand what you are trying to suggest. I just want to know what he said when he sensed Goku as Super Saiyan when he fought No.19. Can you provide it?

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

He said that Goku's ki was 'astounding' and that Goku was in a different dimension from him. He also says he didn't know "what being a Super Saiyan was" or something along those lines. In VIZ's atleast.

Which can easily be explained by saying Goku's sick SSJ ki is even greater than any other Super Saiyan he's felt before, and he's never truly seen a Super Saiyan going all out or in action.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

I don't own Volume 13 digitally, so I can't get the scans.

[Kaboom]

Notice what Yamcha said: "What a huge chi... and he's not even fighting." This is one of a good many potential examples of the ki you can sense from someone being dependent on their level of effort.

So whatever ki Goku is putting out while standing around here and then easily deflecting Trunks' sword is less than his sick self is putting out while fighting his hardest against No.19 later. Easy-peasy.

[Hugo Boss]

At least I can understand if Goku's ki goes higher when he starts a fight. The thing is that, when Goku just transforms in front of the cyborgs, Tenshinhan has kind of a "never-saw-this-before" reaction.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

That's true they didn't get a good feel on Yardrat Goku's ki, but they did get to feel SSJ Trunks (Mecha)'s ki when he fought Freeza, so sick Goku has to atleast be above that Trunks by a good margin.

Also, even if Tenshinhan forgot, there's still Gohan and Piccolo who sensed Trunks.

[Hugo Boss]

Okay, but look how it sounds weird. Wouldn't it be a better phrase if Tenshinhan said "So, this is how powerful Goku became after those three years of training (as a Super Saiyan)?" rather than "So, this is how Super Saiyan Goku is like?"

See? Not exactly an issue though.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Like I said, if we ignore Tenshinhan's comment, there's still Gohan and Piccolo who've sensed Trunks, and if Goku was weaker than this Trunks, Piccolo and Gohan would've came to the conclusion that the Androids are the wrong ones.

[Hugo Boss]

Still, there is the thing about Piccolo beginning to believe they have a chance when Goku got sick and Vegeta saying they aren't as impressive as Trunks made them seem before. If Goku's ki is nowhere near what it should be and even so he was putting a fight, it makes sense to distrust the cyborgs' hype.

[fadeddreams5]

Chi Chi (23rd Tenkaichi Budokai) vs. Mr. Satan (In his prime)

SSJ Goku (End of Broly movie #1) vs Perfect Cell (Full-power)

SSJ2 Gohan (Cell saga) vs SSJ2 Vegeta (Buu saga, but not Majin)

Master Roshi (23rd Tenkaichi Budokai) vs Cyborg Tao (23rd Tenkaichi Budokai)

Janemba (baby form) vs Hirudegarn

Super 13 vs Android 17 and Android 18

[dbzfan7]

Chi Chi (23rd Tenkaichi Budokai) vs. Mr. Satan (In his prime)

SSJ Goku (End of Broly movie #1) vs Perfect Cell (Full-power)

SSJ2 Gohan (Cell saga) vs SSJ2 Vegeta (Buu saga, but not Majin)

Master Roshi (23rd Tenkaichi Budokai) vs Cyborg Tao (23rd Tenkaichi Budokai)

Janemba (baby form) vs Hirudegarn

Super 13 vs Android 17 and Android 18

Chi Chi easily.

Perfect Cell I think is too much for Goku.

SSJ Kid Gohan wins with some difficulty. I don't believe Vegeta was stronger til the Majin boost. Post Majin he was comparable to Gohan according to Piccolo, so before it he probably was under his level.

I think Cyborg Tao Pai Pai is billed as stronger. Roshi didn't train for this tournament either.

Bebi Janemba wins no problem....unless you mean that fat thing, in which case he loses.

Super 13 has got this. Only 16 out of the number line can beat him.

[fadeddreams5]

I meant the fat form for Janemba. <3

I forgot Bebi Janemba even exists.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Pan (End of Z) vs. base Vegeta (Buu arc - pre-Majin)