"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[FortuneSSJ]

Full quality image:
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Cool stuff and easy to understand.

[Lord Frieza]

I said the same thing from the start and I'm no GT hater.

Unless Super erases all thats happened since Beerus came to earth then there are to many inconsistencies to considered them part of a single flowing narrative even by DB's standards.

GT was created years ago, DB had ended and GT was a story of what happens after. All they had to go one was..well..Dragon Ball. They could never have predicted that something like Super would ever happen all those years ago.

[Speedster]

All i'm saying is - GT is 64 episodes long and it shows all this insanely contradicting stuff.

This notion that Ball/Z/Super are consistent masterpieces and GT is an inconsistent trash in comparison is the most hypocritical double standard in the history of anime fandom.

Ending of the manga (2 chapters long and 2 pages of ch 517) is written by Toriyama and can easily fit.

Are you sure about this? There is already a contradiction between Super and the manga ending as Goku in ep.30 revealed the existence of Uub to Vegeta whilst that was supposed to happen for first time in the 28th TB. Also Bra hasn't even been conceived yet and she is supposedly only one year younger than Pan - Pan is already at least 1 year 3.5 months old by now (if you add 9 months you get at least 2 years difference). Not to mention the whole timeline placement issues and the likely retconning of the age of Pan at the EoZ.

Also for all we know there might be a super destructive final event at the end of DB Super and the only way to fix the damage is for Goku to gather the Super Dragonballs and ask Super Shenlong to reverse time up to before Beerus awakening and have Beerus sleep much longer thereby reverting to the normal "10 years of peace" of the original manga.

[Makai]

Here is the Dragon Ball World Hierarchy based on the latest Announcements and episodes of Super and all the Dragon Ball history as we know it.



Full quality image:

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I don't think he's a deity.

Yeah, I see it analogous to Freeza's role. Freeza was the de facto galactic overlord by way of domination, whereas, I assume, the Galactic King was the de jure alternative - only, as we know, the latter clearly hasn't historically seemed to hold much weight.

The Galactic King seems like more of an official role though. Frieza was just a strong tyrant that pretty much self proclaimed himself overlord. But the Galactic Patrol actually has laws and act as a police force, and seem more like an official government. Just how it includes the Namekians, which the GK would be above.

[HeroR]

I must say, what is up with so many people trying to make GT fit into Super? Toriyama didn't write GT, only did a few designs, so why the devil would he care about it? He doesn't even acknowledge stuff that happened in Dragon Ball Z and Toei can only sneak in cameos from a few of their created characters who have no bearing on the actual story. Toriyama even said that Goku will no longer used Super Saiyan 2 and 3 for power drained reasons, so why go through Super Saiyan 4? Even more, Toriyama have been moving away from the Saiyans even having tails.

I didn't say Toriyama dislikes Broly. Toriyama never acknowledged Broly, though, like he did with Bardock.

Yes, this. Toriyama loved Bardock so much that he gave him a panel in the manga and even went as far as to write his own version of Bardock. Broly is really just another movie villain that he happened to design.

So I went back and watched a lot of the series and have a few things to say. The bog arc was good but damn that ROF arc animation. It really went downhill around episode 23. Hope we never get that bad again. There were a few episodes that were much better than I remembered. 10, 22, 33 and 12 especially. 12 still isnt a great episode but it isn't horrible like i remember. 33,22, and 10 are actually very enjoyable episodes imo. i also noticed how Vados said "I promised you would help him with his work" when referring to Frost. The first time I along with a lot of you assumed the peace keeping, but I guess they kept it vague for a reason.

That's the thing. Most people hated the retellings because it was retreading information we know and everyone wanted to jump into the new stuff. I have seen more than a few people say that when they went back and watched everything at once that they had a better opinion overall of the show and how fast things actually moves. It is easier to judge a work when it's completed over looking at one episode every week and doing compared and contrast from the movies.

[dbzfan7]

All i'm saying is - GT is 64 episodes long and it shows all this insanely contradicting stuff.

This notion that Ball/Z/Super are consistent masterpieces and GT is an inconsistent trash in comparison is the most hypocritical double standard in the history of anime fandom.

Ending of the manga (2 chapters long and 2 pages of ch 517) is written by Toriyama and can easily fit.

Are you sure about this? There is already a contradiction between Super and the manga ending as Goku in ep.30 revealed the existence of Uub to Vegeta whilst that was supposed to happen for first time in the 28th TB. Also Bra hasn't even been conceived yet and she is supposedly only one year younger than Pan - Pan is already at least 1 year 3.5 months old by now (if you add 9 months you get at least 2 years difference). Not to mention the whole timeline placement issues and the likely retconning of the age of Pan at the EoZ.

Also for all we know there might be a super destructive final event at the end of DB Super and the only way to fix the damage is for Goku to gather the Super Dragonballs and ask Super Shenlong to reverse time up to before Beerus awakening and have Beerus sleep much longer thereby reverting to the normal "10 years of peace" of the original manga.

Exactly why I think it's dumb to argue canon. No one is innocent. There's no definitive answer. Just nerds wanting what they want to count and not count for themselves and the entire community, rather than just deciding on their own canon instead. Disagree with someone's canon fine, but no one should wave the canon penis and shove it down the communities throat.

Actually I kinda want to draw with stick figures someone shouting "CANON!" as they shove their dick in someone's mouth as visual representation of the fandom desire to make their canon, the one true canon. But I think that wouldn't be allowed.

[Hellspawn28]

I must say, what is up with so many people trying to make GT fit into Super?

Because fans want everything to fit into one universe. Having different timelines and continuities makes it a lot easier if you ask me. You can say something like "Fusion Reborn is set in a different timeline since it fits nowhere in the main timeline". It would be impossible to fit every Dragon Ball thing into one.

[HeroR]

I must say, what is up with so many people trying to make GT fit into Super?

Because fans want everything to fit into one universe. Having different timelines and continuities makes it a lot easier if you ask me. You can say something like "Fusion Reborn is set in a different timeline since it fits nowhere in the main timeline". It would be impossible to fit every Dragon Ball thing into one.

That doesn't make much sense to me since none of the movies except 1, 9, and maybe 13 can fit into the main timeline. Wait, I take that back, movie 9 can't fit since Beerus already blew up King Kai's planet so Bojack should have been released then. So, I don't see why GT can't just be it own thing like the movies before Battle of Gods.

Just to list the reasons why it can't fit:

- Hell looks nothing like the Hell in GT, so the entire premise of the Super 17 Saga couldn't happened, forget Golden Freeza. The people in Hell also don't keep their bodies, they more like spirits that take the form of their original bodies, so Gero and Myuu couldn't build another Android 17 (how did they get the parts anyway to build another android without anyone knowing?)

- The Supreme Kai and Kibito defused so why in would they fuse again, especially when the Supreme Kai makes it a point to say how weird being fused was, so even if they did fuse again they will most likely defused the first chance they get.

- Goku's base is way stronger than any form of Majin Buu while in GT Goku's base is only about equal to one of the Buu's forms.

- Saiyans being stronger with their tails contradicts what Toriyama said about tails and U6 Saiyans have evolved to not needing them and are way stronger than the U7's Saiyans outside of Goku and Vegeta, therefore making Super Saiyan 4 a rather pointless transformation.

Rather you liked or hate GT have nothing to do with whether it fits or not, it just doesn't. Unless you think Toriyama is going to pull a DC and retcon his entire universe just so he can fit in a 20 years old story that he didn't even write, just accept GT as its own story and enjoy it for what it is.

[PMD]

Guys, aside of the canon/non-canon shit, I'm really enjoying this stuff. Keep it going. And thank you.

What if GT happens in U6 Earth???




I'm kidding...

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Neither does the End of Z fit either.

How?

[Cipher]

Re: GT: I like it, but there's no way it fits with the new material. The Kaioshin's defused, the Pilaf gang's age doesn't line up (although this has the easiest fix if they were to wish to be older again, vastly overshooting their mark), Goku and Vegeta have entirely new forms and ways of using ki that don't exist in GT, Freeza's used to completely different ends, etc.

That's totally fine--Toriyama shouldn't be expected to align with a decades-old series he didn't write.

Re: Galactic King: Who the hell knows. Is he elected? Is he just in control of relatively benevolent resources like the Galactic Patrol that other planets recognize and tolerate? I get the feeling it's a sort of space bureaucracy/monarchy mix that certain planets care about, and others don't, but it really doesn't do any harm. The whole shtick is that the Galactic Patrol's kind of comically ineffective; certainly Freeza never had anything to fear from them.

[Neon Z]

Canon is not relevant at all. It's a childrens show to entertain. Not something to be debated about constantly. They are only interested in entertaining, and making money. They are interested in setting up the next big fight, and that's it. They don't care about older nerds who argue about canon, power levels, or any of that shit. The only important thing they want us to know is the story takes place before the end of Z, and that's it. They don't give a rat's ass about people who are curious whether it ties into GT or not, because they are focused on this sole time period. They aren't even focused on how it ties to the end of the Z yet considering all the errors we have right now. Super isn't over yet. Nothing is set in stone yet. Anything can happen.

I repeat, the only people who say GT is dead, are people who hate that series and want any excuse to write it off because of that. I don't love or hate GT. I take it for what it was. I don't look for excuses to write it off because I don't care. If they don't want GT, they'll come out and say it to everyone. Yet after all this time, they haven't. It's a very easy thing to say. You can theorize all you want if they did or didn't, but til they formally announce something along the lines that GT won't count for anything, then there's only speculation.

They aren't the ones making the outline of the story this time though. Akira Toriyama has yet to acknowledge GT in his writing. Even the last official timeline published by Shueisha for the 30th anniversary site completely omitted GT's events even though it had anime-only entries. Toei's staff acknowledging GT doesn't mean anything unless they actually start producing a Dragonball series by themselves or make Toriyama acknowledge its events as part of his Dragonball universe.

[Kuririn Fan]

dbzfan7
Can you please stop calling me a douchebag and a nerd? I'm neither of those things.
You like GT, good for you, but it's a non canon what if side story, not written by Toriyama and has nothing to do with the main story, just like the pre-BoG movies. It's ok to be fan of GT and know that it's not canon.

[Hellspawn28]

Also for all we know there might be a super destructive final event at the end of DB Super and the only way to fix the damage is for Goku to gather the Super Dragonballs and ask Super Shenlong to reverse time up to before Beerus awakening and have Beerus sleep much longer thereby reverting to the normal "10 years of peace" of the original manga.

That would be awful if that happens. It would make the whole show a total waste of time. It reminds me of the ending of the Prince of Persia movie causing all of the previous events to never have happened. It would make Goku's journey to become stronger a total waste of time too. Goku would go through the effort to become a god for nothing.

Neither does the End of Z fit either.

How?

The ages are somewhat screw up if BOG now starts a year after Buu in Super which now ruins the ending to the anime. Pan would be 9 instead of 4 years old. The normal "10 years of peace" has been thrown out of the window for a long time now since we had Hirudegarn (if Movie 13 still happens), Beerus, Freeza and Champa after Buu.

[dbzfan7]

dbzfan7
Can you please stop calling me a douchebag and a nerd? I'm neither of those things.
You like GT, good for you, but it's a non canon what if side story, not written by Toriyama and has nothing to do with the main story, just like the pre-BoG movies. It's ok to be fan of GT and know that it's not canon.

Never said I liked GT. My literal opener was I don't care if it's canon or not, but there is no definitive answer. Just said it's a very douchy thing for anyone to push their own canon as fact. The only people who argue canon and push it onto others are douchy nerds who take a childrens show WAAAAAY too seriously. I'm tired of arguing it so I'm not really gonna argue canon with the extremely closed mindedness of the Dragon Ball community, which has gone on long enough in the topic solely about Super announcements. Even more closed minded than power levels, and I didn't think that was possible.

People who argue their canon such as this are as bad as the typical asshole theists. "My God is the real God. Everyone else's God is fake." Just replace God with canon, and you have got the typical canon debate. Even worse when it's a fun children series by a freaking poop joke author. But no let's take it way too seriously.

I'll leave it with this quote here by someone familiar. See if you figure out who that's from.

Oh boy... canon and power levels, it is wise to not touch them. If Toriyama or TOEI one day say that and that is canon and that isn't, then we'll know, but they honestly don't care and neither should we.

[Sodhi]

I dont even know if the argument is about GT being canon or GT being a possible continuation. If its the canon argument then I'm, sorry but GT is non-canon, it is as clear as a day, it was not in the manga and purely a toei continuation of story with toriyama's character designs(just like db and dbz movies). However GT existing or being a continuation of story is up to a person interpretation and is highly debatable. Excluding GT makes no sense anyways(for toei), so even if Super completly ends up contradicting it, toei will still say it happened or find a way to include it.

[voltlunok]

I dont even know if the argument is about GT being canon or GT being a possible continuation. If its the canon argument then I'm, sorry but GT is non-canon, it is as clear as a day, it was not in the manga and purely a toei continuation of story with toriyama's character designs(just like db and dbz movies). However GT existing or being a continuation of story is up to a person interpretation and is highly debatable. Excluding GT makes no sense anyways(for toei), so even if Super completly ends up contradicting it, toei will still say it happened or find a way to include it.

The argument was never really about 'canon' it started as a discussion more about how some were happy to see people within Toei talking about GT and kinda shattering this illusion some fans created that GT is this devilish thing Toei doesn't wanna talk about, that its this big skeleton in the closet they wanna leave buried and merely mentioning it will have Toriyama firing you into the sun. Some were happy to see them talking about it. Then it slightly spiraled from there into minor canon talk but more that people take the events of Super as ironclad right now even though the show is still running and well...things can change. Then people took that, ran with it into full canon talk while confusing what others were talking about and overall things spiraled further into what they are now...Hope that helps.

[dbzfan7]

I dont even know if the argument is about GT being canon or GT being a possible continuation. If its the canon argument then I'm, sorry but GT is non-canon, it is as clear as a day, it was not in the manga and purely a toei continuation of story with toriyama's character designs(just like db and dbz movies). However GT existing or being a continuation of story is up to a person interpretation and is highly debatable. Excluding GT makes no sense anyways(for toei), so even if Super completly ends up contradicting it, toei will still say it happened or find a way to include it.

The argument was never really about 'canon' it started as a discussion more about how some were happy to see people within Toei talking about GT and kinda shattering this illusion some fans created that GT is this devilish thing Toei doesn't wanna talk about, that its this big skeleton in the closet they wanna leave buried and merely mentioning it will have Toriyama firing you into the sun. Some were happy to see them talking about it. Then it slightly spiraled from there into minor canon talk but more that people take the events of Super as ironclad right now even though the show is still running and well...things can change. Then people took that, ran with it into full canon talk while confusing what others were talking about and overall things spiraled further into what they are now...Hope that helps.

Herms summed it up best

Most "canon" debates do end up boiling down to simply "I like this, therefore it must be canon" vs "I don't like this, therefore it can't be canon". I guess it's nice to see someone being honest about it for a change.

Also Webmaster VegettoEX put up a wonderful article on canon
http://www.VegettoEX.com/2011/12/21/the ... al-debate/

[Noah]

It's confirmed in the new summary of #42 that the monaka in the preview is fake. Its someone else in disguise

Well, I think Whis made a Monaka puppet, why not?

Actually I kinda want to draw with stick figures someone shouting "CANON!" as they shove their dick in someone's mouth as visual representation of the fandom desire to make their canon, the one true canon. But I think that wouldn't be allowed.

Do it, that would be hilarious lol

What if GT happens in U6 Earth???

Well then we could have the match of the century:

Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta vs. Whis

...the only way to fix the damage is for Goku to gather the Super Dragonballs and ask Super Shenlong to reverse time up to before Beerus awakening and have Beerus sleep much longer thereby reverting to the normal "10 years of peace" of the original manga.

Well, that would be really something interesting to happen, imagine if Goku went through a major shit that the only way to revert is not "kicking really hard" the antagonist, but using the Ultimate Dragon Balls set to restore the order, wow... That would be something actually fresh for this series.

[Sandubadear]

Anyone knows who's the voice actor of Super Shenlong?