Unpopular DB opinions

[Saiga]

Throwing ki is just another way to transfer it. Just earlier Gohan and Kuririn were doing the same to Piccolo.

There's a difference between bolstering one's spiritual energy with your own (although even that came out of the nowhere) and suddenly and instantly making it so the dying guy doesn't really need the lower half of his body anymore to survive. There's a BIG difference, and the implications are huge! I mean, if it's that easy, why didn't Goku just throw some ki on Vegeta while he was monologuing himself to death?

But that's not what happened. Freeza survived because of his own races characteristics. Vegeta doesn't have that, so it wouldn't help him. Freeza needed the energy transfer so he could get the fuck out of there.

[DarkPrince_92]

I liked Battle of Z quite a lot o.o

THIS.

[Gaffer Tape]

But that's not what happened. Freeza survived because of his own races characteristics. Vegeta doesn't have that, so it wouldn't help him. Freeza needed the energy transfer so he could get the fuck out of there.

Eh, I'm gonna have to ask for a citation on that. I mean, you might be able to reasonably assume that might be the case to patch over the lack of sense it makes, but the story never makes that implication. Freeza looks like he lost a lot of important organs, so, from a story perspective, what? His race just doesn't need any of those things to survive? Do they grow back? Apparently not since he was later given a mechanical body. So if he doesn't need any of those to survive, why does he have them to begin with? And he clearly looked like he was on death's door before Goku threw him a bone. Then he was suddenly healthy and on his... okay, not his feet, but he certainly appeared to need that energy for living, not just "getting the fuck out of there."

[RandomGuy96]

I think Freeza should have picked up his legs and folded them under his arm while hovering out of there, because he might need them later. That's a funny mental image.

[Saiga]

But that's not what happened. Freeza survived because of his own races characteristics. Vegeta doesn't have that, so it wouldn't help him. Freeza needed the energy transfer so he could get the fuck out of there.

Eh, I'm gonna have to ask for a citation on that. I mean, you might be able to reasonably assume that might be the case to patch over the lack of sense it makes, but the story never makes that implication. Freeza looks like he lost a lot of important organs, so, from a story perspective, what? His race just doesn't need any of those things to survive? Do they grow back? Apparently not since he was later given a mechanical body. So if he doesn't need any of those to survive, why does he have them to begin with? And he clearly looked like he was on death's door before Goku threw him a bone. Then he was suddenly healthy and on his... okay, not his feet, but he certainly appeared to need that energy for living, not just "getting the fuck out of there."

Isn't it said that his race can survive grievous injuries, and that that's the very reason he survived? Doesn't make the organs useless. Surviving doesn't mean surviving forever, just long enough to receive the treatment he did. And I think he was just exhausted because he didn't have enough ki, like Goku after the Genki Dama. But it isn't even hinted that transferring ki can make someone recover from injuries like that.

The idea that Goku's ki fixed him up is just completely knew to me. I've never before seen anyone think it did more than replenish lost energy.

[Gaffer Tape]

I'm glad we're having this conversation because making me really think through this is going to come in handy for DBD later down the line.

Regardless, though, it still comes off as completely illogical to me. Once Goku has fired his healing gun at him, Freeza seems perfectly fine and no worse for wear for the lack of half of his body. He is literally shown to have severed entrails hanging out of his torso, and yet he can still just banter with Goku like nothing happened. You say it never even occurred to you that transferring ki can heal grievous injuries. So you admit it's a grievous injury? So if Goku's ki didn't mend him, what did? Obviously something did, because if it's as grievous an injury as it looks, you're not just going to get up and start shooting the shit. You say that's because of freaky alien biology, and that he was just drained of energy? Well, as far as I see it, while that kinda helps spackle over what I consider to be a ridiculous plot point, it rather disarms the weight of the entire scene. Both in the manga and especially in the TV series Freeza seems to be portrayed as seriously dying and clearly in a hell of a lot of pain. And that seems to be the crux of this: Goku has been put in a terrible situation, where he's just leaving a dying man behind because he's just so damned evil. To me it loses quite a bit of narrative punch if Freeza goes from, "Help me. I've sustained a grievous injury. I'm in pain and dying," to, "Whoopsie. Give me a hand? I've fallen, and I can't get up." In fact, it becomes ridiculously Pythonesque if you ask me.

Granted, this next point ties in with my overall disappointment in the Freeza battle, but I have to ask, what is it that made him lose that much ki? He seemed to still be in great spirits right before he got sliced in half. So obviously it was the injury. So it makes him lose half of his body, but that's not a big deal, and yet somehow, while not being a big deal physically, it drains his life force?! I don't get how both can work. Does he keep his ki in the lower half of his body? Did all his ki fall out of the gaping hole in him? I can buy his ki would be exhausted if it was a mortal or grievous injury, but seemingly according to you, it's not. Or do ki attacks only drain others of their ki? Because here's the thing: if one's body is so resilient to physical damage that losing half of it is just "a flesh wound," why are these people even bothering engaging in hand-to-hand combat in the first place? Why are they beating each other's bodies at all? In the Saiyan fight, you get a clear idea of what these people are doing to themselves and each other. The attacks are fantastic, but the injuries are relatable. They take a toll on their bodies, and when it's over, they're all crumpled heaps with broken bones and other legitimate wounds. Or would you say they're just lying there because their ki has been drained? Anyway, in the Freeza fight, I don't get that sense at all. Goku and Freeza pound away at each other, even destroy a planet in the process, and, in the end, before Freeza gets sliced in half, both of them look somewhat scratched and bloody. Goku's clothes are tattered. They seem a bit tired, but, overall, they're none the worse for wear. What the hell have they been doing to each other all this time? That's bad enough as it is, but to say that even after being chopped in half Freeza is still just a bit drained, it really removes any remaining bit of tension to this fight.

[Saiga]

Now that you're saying that, I get why one would think Freeza had been healed, but I just never got that impression. It's not said anywhere, and to me it's not suggested or implied either. Like I've said, I always thought that Freeza could go on because of his unique biology. So, yeah, my stance is that he survived because of his biology, although maybe he would have died of exhaustion without Goku's ki (you can die from exhaustion, right?). Unless I misremembered, didn't Freeza think Namek's explosion would kill him like that? So Goku's still deciding to save his life.

And yeah, I think he would have lost a lot of ki from being sliced in half. Earlier in that fight, doesn't one of Piccolo, Kuririn and Gohan say Goku has lost a lot of ki from his beatings? And yet, we don't see much actual physical damage beyond cuts and bruises. All his limbs are functioning, no hints of eternal damage, lots of ki still lost. Nail lost an arm, and his battle power dropped (although that could be from regeneration). Cell lost his upper half and lost a lot of ki from that - and he's able to stand right back up after it, even before regenerating! Given the components that make up ki - Genki, Shuuki, Youki and more - it wouldn't surprise me if you can lose ki from damage and lost limbs.

I even buy the idea that some of his ki is contained in his legs, because I'd actually assume that your ki would be evenly spread out through your body, like auras envelop the entire body. But I suppose that's iffy to get into since ki isn't a physical substance. You could see it as the injury doing damage to his body and his spirit (ki), and Goku healed the spiritual damage without affecting the physical.

I still think Freeza's injuries are significant. He can survive them for an unknown time thanks to his durability, but I think his surgery was necessary to give him long-term like expectancy. And this only applies to Freeza, so I am not sure what you mean by ki attacks only draining another's ki. Like I said, I don't see Vegeta surviving his injuries even if Goku gave him ki.

[Gaffer Tape]

The point behind my questioning of ki being in his legs and ki attacks draining ki was in my desire to find out what exactly you thought caused him to lose that much ki. I agree that he lost a significant amount, nearly all of his ki, but I assume he lost that much because his life was close to being snuffed out. That's what is usually observed of characters when they're close to death. The scouters had Gohan's BP at 0 when his neck was broken. Goku sensed a ki disappearing when Piccolo was dying. While it's also shown that a character's ki can drop substantially just from using too much of it, like in the examples you mentioned, it's usually a sign they're dying or grievously injured. So it has confused me when you seem to imply the injury wasn't life-threatening, and yet, somehow, he also lost all of his ki. It just doesn't compute with me. That's why led me to throw out all of those potentials: to try and figure out where it is you think that ki went.

[ABED]

I enjoy the Garlic Jr. arc. There I said it.

[Kid Buu]

I enjoy it too; especially the Turtle Birthday Episode and the new designs. I would have liked to see Yamcha fight if they were trying to give the jobbers spotlight though.

[Kamiccolo9]

I enjoy the Garlic Jr. arc. There I said it.

It's not my favorite, but I don't dislike it either. I don't skip it when watching the series like some around here do.

[Storm]

I don't find it bad, just... boring. I watched it for the first time all the way through this summer, and expected a trainwreck; instead, I found something ambitiously mediocre.

There's some highlights to be sure, but overall it just feels like an unremarkable rehash and has a lot of wasted opportunities. I'd probably watch it over the Super 17 arc, though.

[TheGmGoken]

Not sure if this unpopular but this form(s) get a lot of love by the fans.

SSJ3 looks fucking ugly. Especially on Future Gohan and Trunks(Both Present and Future)

SSJ4 is ugly. Except for Vegeta. Gogeta look basic and boring. Goku looks....like a sex doll.

[Metalwario64]

SSJ4 is ugly. Except for Vegeta. Gogeta look basic and boring. Goku looks....like a sex doll.

...




...



Uh... I don't know and don't care to know about sex dolls but... what the HELL?

[Polyphase Avatron]

Well, yeah, but I'd say that leap in logic occurred the second Goku threw his ki at him and kept the limbless guy alive with it. Never thought that made any sense. Besides the fact that, up until now, throwing ki at someone seriously *hurt* that person, it also seems to completely invalidate senzu or any other healing item or device. I mean, just throw ki at someone. It'll stabilize any wound, including, apparently, losing half of your body, and you have a nigh-inexhaustible supply in most cases.

I thought that was more to do with Frieza's weird biology. If a human or Saiyan got cut in half like that their guts would be spilling everywhere but Frieza doesn't seem to have any internal organs.

[Gaffer Tape]

In the manga, you can see organs and entrails hanging out of his torso. They're definitely there.

[Zephyr]

And even going by the anime, you could say that the wound looks nice and clean due to it being cauterized, rather than some unique feature of his biology.

[ABED]

The dub opening theme for the DBZ movies is nice sounding.

[TheGmGoken]

The dub opening theme for the DBZ movies is nice sounding.

Which one? There are 2 I believe. Or do you mean both of them.

[Kamiccolo9]

The dub opening theme for the DBZ movies is nice sounding.

I don't remember which one that is, but I do like the opening theme music on the Orange Bricks.

Would anyone happen to know what that track is called?