Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[Kamiccolo9]

So no quote then. Good to know.

EDIT: also, give me one, one example in the manga when a fighter gets weakened by a weaker fighter to the point they can't even fend off a character that was 1/3 off him.

Vegeta when Krillin was about to stab him.

[ZombieVito]

.....?

Krillin did not hurt Vegeta... It was all Goku and Gohan.

[Kamiccolo9]

You didn't say that he had to be able to fend off the one who hurt him. Krillin was less than a 10th of Vegeta's strength, and Vegeta was weakened to the point where he was helpless by fighters weaker than him.

[TheMightyOzaru]

So no quote then. Good to know.

EDIT: also, give me one, one example in the manga when a fighter gets weakened by a weaker fighter to the point they can't even fend off a character that was 1/3 off him.

No it's a direct quote from Toriyama in the Daizenshuus. Do I have to? It's a matter of knowing how to use Ki and since Raditz is quite the noob, it makes sense that he can be hurt by someone weaker. However a good example of someone being hurt be someone not as strong would be Vegeta vs Recoome. Vegeta beat the ever loving shit out of Recoome, yeah he lost but he still did a lot of damage.

[ZombieVito]

You didn't say that he had to be able to fend off the one who hurt him. Krillin was less than a 10th of Vegeta's strength, and Vegeta was weakened to the point where he was helpless by fighters weaker than him.

But Vegeta was not weakened but a weaker fighter... It's not the same scenario as Raditz.

And no sorry but if AT never said his power level in an interview or something then no dice.

Recoome is the same as Nappa, they were never stated to get weaker. Recoome even raped Vegeta after he started to attack.

[Kamiccolo9]

You didn't say that he had to be able to fend off the one who hurt him. Krillin was less than a 10th of Vegeta's strength, and Vegeta was weakened to the point where he was helpless by fighters weaker than him.

But Vegeta was not weakened but a weaker fighter... It's not the same scenario as Raditz.

And no sorry but if AT never said his power level in an interview or something then no dice.

Recoome is the same as Nappa, they were never stated to get weaker. Recoome even raped Vegeta after he started to attack.

We know that Vegeta's power level on Earth was 18,000. On Namek, he fights Cui, who states that his power level was equal to Vegeta's before his trip to Earth, and that it was 18,000. Goku tops out at " Over 8,000" without using the Kaioken, and obviously, Gohan, Krillin, and Yajorobe are weaker than him. So, using only information that's in the manga, you have accurate views of the power levels from that fight.

[Bussani]

Like it or not Nappa and Vegeta both powered up, these instances can't be ignore

That's such an interesting subject that there was a whole podcast topic on it once. Personally, I think that if we take every quote from the manga into account, the only conclusion that fits is that when Vegeta and Nappa "power up" the Earthlings sense a change in their ki size, but the scouters don't. To use an analogy, it's like how volume can be subjective because different people or creatures hear in different frequency ranges. A simpler way that some people put it might be that the Earthlings just weren't as good at ki sensing yet (after all, just a year earlier they couldn't even find Raditz via ki sensing, but his scouter could track them from miles away) and couldn't sense the true scope of Vegeta and Nappa's powers until they were actively using them. Unless we look at it in these sorts of ways, Vegeta's conversation with Kui and all the times they make a big deal out of the Earthling's battle powers changing make very little sense; I mean, think how suppressed Vegeta would have to be for Piccolo not to be able to tell he's stronger than Nappa!

Buuut as interesting as all that is, I guess this isn't the thread for it.

[ZombieVito]

You didn't say that he had to be able to fend off the one who hurt him. Krillin was less than a 10th of Vegeta's strength, and Vegeta was weakened to the point where he was helpless by fighters weaker than him.

But Vegeta was not weakened but a weaker fighter... It's not the same scenario as Raditz.

And no sorry but if AT never said his power level in an interview or something then no dice.

Recoome is the same as Nappa, they were never stated to get weaker. Recoome even raped Vegeta after he started to attack.

We know that Vegeta's power level on Earth was 18,000. On Namek, he fights Cui, who states that his power level was equal to Vegeta's before his trip to Earth, and that it was 18,000. Goku tops out at " Over 8,000" without using the Kaioken, and obviously, Gohan, Krillin, and Yajorobe are weaker than him. So, using only information that's in the manga, you have accurate views of the power levels from that fight.

Yes and still no weaker fighter has ever weakened a stronger one with one hit. It's makes zero sense for Raditz to be 1500. If you accept that gap then Monster Zarbon rivaled Vegeta but yet trashed him. That's not rivaling.

Edit: very interesting note indeed, they needed the dragon radar to find him but if I remember correctly they did felt his Ki, mm still Vegeta knows Goku's power level and he knows Nappa's, he still said Nappa could beat him if he calmed down. That would be imposible if he was at 4000.

[Bussani]

I have a feeling you're putting more stock in these gaps than the author himself did. There's nothing wrong with that, per se--if that's how you want to analyze these things, then go for it--but I wouldn't blame other people for not taking the same approach. Maybe it's better to be flexible sometimes.

[ZombieVito]

I hate to cherry pick with the manga, those gaps were stated. Can't really be debated.

[Bussani]

I'm not saying they're not there--just that the author probably didn't put as much thought into them as you are.

[Kamiccolo9]

Goku's Warp Kamehameha injured Cell to the point where Goku noticed that Cell's power had dropped, and he was much weaker than Cell. Vegeta was much, much weaker than Cell, and his Final Flash would have crippled him if he couldn't regenerate. There's two examples of weaker fighers damaging stronger ones.

[ZombieVito]

Those attacks were amplified.... Which means they were stronger while doing them. Gohan didn't used a Ki blast with Raditz.

[Kaboom]

Zarbon and Dodoria's power levels were never given in the manga itself, only in their Daizenshuu 7 biographies. Something seems odd about using guidebook numbers as a measuring stick against which to cry foul on other guidebooks numbers.

[ZombieVito]

I don't know about that (I haven't even seen the numbers they gave them in there) but the manga states they are under 24K, I just analyze their respective fights and give a number base on their performance, 20K for Dodoria and 22K for Zarbon.

[Kamiccolo9]

I don't know about that (I haven't even seen the numbers they gave them in there) but the manga states they are under 24K, I just analyze their respective fights and give a number base on their performance, 20K for Dodoria and 22K for Zarbon.

Well, if you want to use that logic, how do you figure that Dodoria did any better than Kui? Neither managed to even hit Vegeta. Dodoria could be anywhere from 18,001-23,998.

[ZombieVito]

I don't know about that (I haven't even seen the numbers they gave them in there) but the manga states they are under 24K, I just analyze their respective fights and give a number base on their performance, 20K for Dodoria and 22K for Zarbon.

Well, if you want to use that logic, how do you figure that Dodoria did any better than Kui? Neither managed to even hit Vegeta. Dodoria could be anywhere from 18,001-23,998.

Simple really:









Vegeta used more effort to fight/kill Dodoria (Look at the veins on his head), hence Dodoria's gap << Cui's gap.

[ZombieVito]

I don't know about that (I haven't even seen the numbers they gave them in there) but the manga states they are under 24K, I just analyze their respective fights and give a number base on their performance, 20K for Dodoria and 22K for Zarbon.

Well, if you want to use that logic, how do you figure that Dodoria did any better than Kui? Neither managed to even hit Vegeta. Dodoria could be anywhere from 18,001-23,998.

Simple really:









Vegeta used more effort to fight/kill Dodoria (look at the veins on his head), hence Dodoria's gap << Cui's gap.

[Bussani]

None of your images are working (without fiddling). I don't think the that site allows hotlinking. Keep in mind that they might appear for you if they're already in your cache, just to be confusing.

[Kamiccolo9]

He also toyed with Dodoria first, obviously wanting to make him suffer. He just blew Kui up. I don't see how this would prove that Dodoria is much stronger than Kui.