"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[LightBing]

You people understand you don't need to be Jesus to tell someone he's a sinner, right? People are turning this into a character debate for no reason at all.
Also including Cell Arc Vegeta in the conversation is unfair and it's not that Vegeta the one who's talking here.

People change, current Vegeta is the one talking. Are we holding people's mistakes to eternity, ignoring everything else? Think about the slippery slope that is.

How this conversation developed is incredible disappointing. There's literal recognition that Vegeta is a good guy by Porunga and therefore by Mr.Toriyama himself.

And keep in mind while Bulma is heavily pregnant, Vegeta is off in some far region of the universe training with Whis. Shouldn't he be sticking around for the birth of his child, which could happen very soon, to, you know, at least have some kind of moral ground for calling out Goku on being absent for the birth of his children?

He literally asks Whis to bring him back because Bulma is pregnant.

[HeroR]

This fight was boring aside from a couple of panels,was it necessary, it would have been better if there was a exposition of goku and whis mentioning vegeta mastered his transformation or have tte fight last 5 pages,I was wrong about him covering episodes 77-78 in 1 chap,as of right now I'm not impressed with this & the jokes were not funny

They are some positive,let me name some

+Is always neat seeing beerus fighting & seeing a mastered ssb is not enough for beerus is kinda horrifying

+goku dominating those poacher was entertaining

+There was a cameo in this,I appreciate the little details here

The chapter has been fully translated?

You people understand you don't need to be Jesus to tell someone he's a sinner, right? People are turning this into a character debate for no reason at all.
Also including Cell Arc Vegeta in the conversation is unfair and it's not that Vegeta the one who's talking here.

People change, current Vegeta is the one talking. Are we holding people's mistakes to eternity, ignoring everything else? Think about the slippery slope that is.

How this conversation developed is incredible disappointing. There's literal recognition that Vegeta is a good guy by Porunga and therefore by Mr.Toriyama himself.

And keep in mind while Bulma is heavily pregnant, Vegeta is off in some far region of the universe training with Whis. Shouldn't he be sticking around for the birth of his child, which could happen very soon, to, you know, at least have some kind of moral ground for calling out Goku on being absent for the birth of his children?

He literally asks Whis to bring him back because Bulma is pregnant.

The line falls flat because of Vegeta's history and the fact that Vegeta is off training instead of being by his wife's side when she could give birth at any minute. Him asking Whis to take him back home also doesn't negate the fact that he went to train while Bulma could have gave birth to Bra while he was gone for even an hour. At best, the scene is hypocritical humor.

[The gr]

The chapter has been fully translated?

Nope I'm just basing this off on herms tweets and by looking at the full leaks of this,nothing interesting happened aside from the sparring match,I will add more comments once I see translation

[pacz360]

So I see there's been a lot of "passionate" reactions to Goku's and Vegeta's behavior in this new chapter. So I decided to do some digging of what the big ruckus was about and I come across this from Herms:

Goku reveals he didn't know about Gohan or Goten's births. Vegeta: "You might not be a bad guy, but as a father, you're the worst."

Yeah... that is... absolutely fucking absurd.

Not the just the fact that Goku was wasn't around for Gohan birth, but the fact that Vegeta, the same Vegeta who was willing to left his wife and infant child die in a plane and never hugged his son until he was 8 years old and was about to kill himself, is taking the high morale ground and calling out Goku for how he acts as father is gear grindingly hypocritical.

This is far from a story breaking thing for me, but damn if it's a really unnecessarily annoying addition to the story from Toyotaro. Just like how Goku never kissed his wife. Frankly I find this occasion worse than the whole "Goku never kissing Chi Chi" scenario because it was handled with far less subtlety. I mean.... where the hell was Goku when Gohan was being born?! Did Goku even know when Chi Chi was pregnant? It's just so fucking dumb. It raises more questions that it needs to.

And keep in mind while Bulma is heavily pregnant, Vegeta is off in some far region of the universe training with Whis. Shouldn't he be sticking around for the birth of his child, which could happen very soon, to, you know, at least have some kind of moral ground for calling out Goku on being absent for the birth of his children?

Ugh. This was all so bloody freakin stupid. It won't detract from the grand scope of the story in the slightest, but... did we really need to know this?

Well considered it manga only thing where in the anime goku only mentions never seeing goten birth

[pacz360]

This fight was boring aside from a couple of panels,was it necessary, it would have been better if there was a exposition of goku and whis mentioning vegeta mastered his transformation or have tte fight last 5 pages,I was wrong about him covering episodes 77-78 in 1 chap,as of right now I'm not impressed with this & the jokes were not funny

They are some positive,let me name some

+Is always neat seeing beerus fighting & seeing a mastered ssb is not enough for beerus is kinda horrifying

+goku dominating those poacher was entertaining

+There was a cameo in this,I appreciate the little details here

The chapter has been fully translated?

You people understand you don't need to be Jesus to tell someone he's a sinner, right? People are turning this into a character debate for no reason at all.
Also including Cell Arc Vegeta in the conversation is unfair and it's not that Vegeta the one who's talking here.

People change, current Vegeta is the one talking. Are we holding people's mistakes to eternity, ignoring everything else? Think about the slippery slope that is.

How this conversation developed is incredible disappointing. There's literal recognition that Vegeta is a good guy by Porunga and therefore by Mr.Toriyama himself.

And keep in mind while Bulma is heavily pregnant, Vegeta is off in some far region of the universe training with Whis. Shouldn't he be sticking around for the birth of his child, which could happen very soon, to, you know, at least have some kind of moral ground for calling out Goku on being absent for the birth of his children?

He literally asks Whis to bring him back because Bulma is pregnant.

The line falls flat because of Vegeta's history and the fact that Vegeta is off training instead of being by his wife's side when she could give birth at any minute. Him asking Whis to take him back home also doesn't negate the fact that he went to train while Bulma could have gave birth to Bra while he was gone for even an hour. At best, the scene is hypocritical humor.

Pretty much vegeta has no room to talk unlike his anime version

[LightBing]

The line falls flat because of Vegeta's history and the fact that Vegeta is off training instead of being by his wife's side when she could give birth at any minute. Him asking Whis to take him back home also doesn't negate the fact that he went to train while Bulma could have gave birth to Bra while he was gone for even an hour. At best, the scene is hypocritical humor.

Do we know if Bulma is due any time soon? We don't. Is Vegeta supposed to stop his life, as in taking a few hours to train, just because she's pregnant. C'mon...
I'll retract my statement if she's supposed to give birth that day or the next, as it stands people are adding unknown information to fit their argument.

There's nothing hypocritical about the scene, since Vegeta returns home and stops his training to be with his wife. It's beyond me how people can't see the context of the line. It's right there.

That being said the line is pretty bad. Goku was around(alive) when Gohan as born. It really insists on the point that Goku sucks as a family man, something we already know, we don't need the redundancy.

[HeroR]

Do we know if Bulma is due any time soon? We don't. Is Vegeta supposed to stop his life, as in taking a few hours to train, just because she's pregnant. C'mon...
I'll retract my statement if she's supposed to give birth that day or the next, as it stands people are adding unknown information to fit their argument.

There's nothing hypocritical about the scene, since Vegeta returns home and stops his training to be with his wife. It's beyond me how people can't see the context of the line. It's right there.

That being said the line is pretty bad. Goku was around(alive) when Gohan as born. It really insists on the point that Goku sucks as a family man, something we already know, we don't need the redundancy.

From my understanding, Bulma is late. So yeah, she's due at any time. And he could have train at home. Nothing is stopping him from using the gravity room, unless Bulma is using it like the anime. He didn't have to specifically go to Whis' planet.

It is hypocritical since Bulma is close to due and it is possible to give birth earlier than expected when it's around that time. So Vegeta could have easily missed his daughter's birth, even if he believed Bulma should't give birth for another week. And again, he could have trained at home. Heck, he could have trained with his son.

[Rhuagh]

Vegeta is very much in character. He is the biggest jerk, especially towards Goku. Doesn't mean he is right, doesn't mean the author wants you to think he is right.

[TheSaiyanGod]

It is obvious that Goku did not know that Chichi was pregnant.

When he saw Bulma in this chapter (and EP 77), he thought she had eaten too much.
The difference is that in the manga it was said explicitly that he did not know about Gohan's birth, while in the anime he was only Implied

If on seeing a pregnant woman, Goku thinks she ate too much, then how could we think Goku knows what a pregnancy is?

[Kanassa]

If on seeing a pregnant woman, Goku thinks she ate too much, then how could we think Goku knows what a pregnancy is?

I've seen pregnant woman, and I've seen people fat enough to look similar. You can know what pregnancy is and still make the mistake.

[HeroR]

If on seeing a pregnant woman, Goku thinks she ate too much, then how could we think Goku knows what a pregnancy is?

I've seen pregnant woman, and I've seen people fat enough to look similar. You can know what pregnancy is and still make the mistake.

I can vouch for this....I made that mistake.

So Goku thinking Bulma got fat doesn't necessarily means he doesn't know what being pregnancy is.

[Basako]

I liked the chapter, waiting for the full translation now.

Goku as a farmer is fun and all with the robbers and the police. Hey, I didn't catch that Cashman policemen cameo, that was cool. I remember DB anime fillers brought Tomato once, but that was more like a stunt.

Not knowing about Gohan's birth isn't good, I want to see how it is translated. In any case, it's not a major thing, just a detail. It's not worse than not knowing what a kiss is.

Vegeta's training is cool, first with Whis, the gap is huge, it's like Vegeta can't even dream to touch him and Whis could annihilate him with zero effort if he wanted. On the other hand, there could be a fight with Beerus, mostly when he gets MSSB. Anyhow, Beerus is clearly superior yet when he wants to.

The Oracle fish is there too, what weird character. For when another of his predictions?

[LightBing]

Do we know if Bulma is due any time soon? We don't. Is Vegeta supposed to stop his life, as in taking a few hours to train, just because she's pregnant. C'mon...
I'll retract my statement if she's supposed to give birth that day or the next, as it stands people are adding unknown information to fit their argument.

There's nothing hypocritical about the scene, since Vegeta returns home and stops his training to be with his wife. It's beyond me how people can't see the context of the line. It's right there.

That being said the line is pretty bad. Goku was around(alive) when Gohan as born. It really insists on the point that Goku sucks as a family man, something we already know, we don't need the redundancy.

From my understanding, Bulma is late. So yeah, she's due at any time. And he could have train at home. Nothing is stopping him from using the gravity room, unless Bulma is using it like the anime. He didn't have to specifically go to Whis' planet.

It is hypocritical since Bulma is close to due and it is possible to give birth earlier than expected when it's around that time. So Vegeta could have easily missed his daughter's birth, even if he believed Bulma should't give birth for another week. And again, he could have trained at home. Heck, he could have trained with his son.

From your understanding..., care to provide a source? I believe the chapter still hasn't been fully translated.
Training at home is not the same as training with the guy who trains Hakaishins, that's a moot point.

[Totamo]

It's ironic you cite the Buu Saga, because it's the one of the only sagas you can't really call Goku a "reckless douche" as that's one of the sagas where he thought things out pragmatically in his sense of the word. Furthermore, I know he isn't some perfect gentleman, but it wouldn't for hurt a little bit of consistent characterization and not outrageously double down on his existing flaws. However, this is Super though the show is shit and the manga isn't quite that far apart.

Thats a lie. Goku was half the reason Buu was revived, it was his responsibility. Not to mention he did that exact same nonsense with Gohan which literally blew up in his face.


Goku's plans have been dumb since Cell.


I don't think people really realize how Goku's character changed from Ball to Z.

I'm just gonna past what I typed previously, because for some reason you ignored it, even though it was on the same page.

Hence, why I said in his sense of the word, Goku left Buu to Trunks and Goten because he knew that he wouldn't be always there to fight off the next villain. So he wanted the next generation to learn how to protect themselves, he definitely had the right idea, but he went at the wrong way of executing it. In his mind, he thought what no better chance for them to get experience they need, than to defeat something of equal equivalance of what they someday be fighting in the future. In addition, you can't the blame the Resurrection of Majin Buu on Goku, as it was Vegeta who incited the whole thing by submitting his mind to Babdi and killing a half of stadium full of innocent citizens to force Goku to fight him. Whats more, Goku was gonna end the fight quickly as he said himeself in the beginning of the fight, but unbeknownst to him since Vegeta submitted himself to Babdi he got a power boost putting him on equal footing to Goku, that otherwise would have been a quick stomp. In conclusion there's was pretty much nothing Goku could do that in situation, going SSJ3 humiliating Vegeta who was already standing on a thread between Good and Evil would have been a bad choice, as he only needed one nudge to push him to either side.

To be honest, I think you don't get Goku's character and it doesn't matter if his plans are dumb to you,( as they will be certain people) it's the fact that he took into consideration to make a plan.

It was a dumb plan and You don't get credit for that. Why should he get credit for that? They got people killed including himself . This is like giving a participation award for doing the bare minimum and they sucked. All those plans proved was Goku was an idiot, who got extremely lucky 16 was there.


Also do you know Vegeta? He rather be crushed than pitied. He was far more angry that Goku tricked him into thinking he could win. Not to mention, Vegeta only did what he did to fight Goku. Yet Goku chose to fight him evenly and THREATEN someone just trying to do his job.



Goku was directly responsible for both the Cell and Buu saga. And instead of fighting until he is barely breathing like he would have in ball, he throws it on children, more importantly his own children and it only made matters worse.

Now Ball Goku didn't have this problem,a guy did something bad, he did everything he could to stop them even if he was weaker. He never put any problem on anyone else. More importantly, his actions never got anyone murdered. Did I also forget that he didn't let people go except one who really didn't do anything wrong.

[Noah]

My main problem is Vegeta is the one calling Goku out. The person who not only missed Trunks' birth, but also left him and his mother to die to Android 20, and mentally and physically abused Future Trunks. Just because he's a better person now doesn't wash away the BS he pulled in the Androids/Cell Saga.

The joke is terrible, but Vegeta calling him out is even worse, this just proves how bad is Toyotaro as a writer, for god's sake.

[HeroR]

From your understanding..., care to provide a source? I believe the chapter still hasn't been fully translated.
Training at home is not the same as training with the guy who trains Hakaishins, that's a moot point.

So, not training with Whis for a week or two is out of the question when his wife is about to have a baby? This isn't the same as going to work everyday.

[Basako]

My main problem is Vegeta is the one calling Goku out. The person who not only missed Trunks' birth, but also left him and his mother to die to Android 20, and mentally and physically abused Future Trunks. Just because he's a better person now doesn't wash away the BS he pulled in the Androids/Cell Saga.

The joke is terrible, but Vegeta calling him out is even worse, this just proves how bad is Toyotaro as a writer, for god's sake.

No man, Toyotaro is not pefect, but he is far from being bad, he is really good as a writer and as an artist. He keeps coherency mostly right, it is always totally interesting to read and his battles are great. The sparring in this chapter is not a major fight to open mouths, that would be pointless just begining the arc, but there are some cool moves and it establishes further the power levels and characterizations.

About Vegeta's words, I don't see the problem, it's just an unimportat comment he makes in that moment surprised by Goku's past. Even if he was a terrible father and person before, he is talking now, it's not like he can't ever say anything about other people's parenting because his past. If it was any other but Goku there, the response to him would be like: 'Ok Vegeta, but where were you when Trunks was born?' or 'Shut up Vegeta, you let Dr. Gero kill your wife and baby once'. Of course, that wouldn't be Goku's natural answer.

[Noah]

No man, Toyotaro is not pefect, but he is far from being bad, he is really good as a writer and as an artist. He keeps coherency mostly right, it is always totally interesting to read and his battles are great. The sparring in this chapter is not a major fight to open mouths, that would be pointless just begining the arc, but there are some cool moves and it establishes further the power levels and characterizations.

About Vegeta's words, I don't see the problem, it's just an unimportat comment he makes in that moment surprised by Goku's past. Even if he was a terrible father and person before, he is talking now, it's not like he can't ever say anything about other people's parenting because his past. If it was any other but Goku there, the response to him would be like: 'Ok Vegeta, but where were you when Trunks was born?' or 'Shut up Vegeta, you let Dr. Gero kill your wife and baby once'. Of course, that wouldn't be Goku's natural answer.

I'm not saying he should be perfect, but I believe many here think that Toyotaro function is to remember stuff Toriyama forgets and know the original manga point by point as the hardcore fan we presume he is.

I recognize that he's a good artist, but his battles are repetitive with the same poses all the way around and homages to the original work and other stuff. I congratulate him for trying to provide information the anime doesn't care to give to the audience, but he can't do without feeling like a exposition dump.

Even though we all know Vegeta had changed, it doesn't change things he had done in the past, sure he could be annoyed by Goku's attitude, but calling him out a "terrible father" like he was always a good one, it's ridiculous.

[Basako]

No man, Toyotaro is not pefect, but he is far from being bad, he is really good as a writer and as an artist. He keeps coherency mostly right, it is always totally interesting to read and his battles are great. The sparring in this chapter is not a major fight to open mouths, that would be pointless just begining the arc, but there are some cool moves and it establishes further the power levels and characterizations.

About Vegeta's words, I don't see the problem, it's just an unimportat comment he makes in that moment surprised by Goku's past. Even if he was a terrible father and person before, he is talking now, it's not like he can't ever say anything about other people's parenting because his past. If it was any other but Goku there, the response to him would be like: 'Ok Vegeta, but where were you when Trunks was born?' or 'Shut up Vegeta, you let Dr. Gero kill your wife and baby once'. Of course, that wouldn't be Goku's natural answer.

I'm not saying he should perfect, but I believe many here think that Toyotaro function is to remember stuff Toriyama forgets and know the original manga point by point as the hardcore fan we presume he is.

I recognize that he's a good artist, but his battles are repetitive with the same poses all the way around and homages to the original work and other stuff. I congratulate him for trying to provide information the anime doesn't care to give to the audience, but he can't do without feeling like a exposition dump.

Even though we all know Vegeta had changed, it doesn't change things he had done in the past, sure he could be annoyed by Goku's attitude, but calling him out a "terrible father" like he was always a good one, it's ridiculous.

He sometimes makes exposition dump, because sometimes the story needs to establish some important context that need words, not just images. Toriyama used to do it too and it was fine. But he doesn't always do it, mostly the images speak from themselves, we have just Vegeta mastering the Blue now and the power levels of the characters have been established without any need of words.

Homeges are just homages, like when Frost used Freeza's pose or Goku and Vegeta repeated their first fight ones. That's not even a problem and it's not like he couldn't give them other ones, they are conscious decisions. If fights are repetitive, it's in the sense they are DB fights, he knows how Toriyama used to do them and he continues that style. But they have been interesting so far, since Goku and Beerus, Champa and Zamasu arcs, there have been so many things that made a lot of them unique. In this very fight we have Vegeta and Beerus both drawn from a wide variety of angles and positions, sometimes like four different ones in the same page for the same attack. But it's not the first time Vegeta attacks with his fists, please, of course similar poses can be found before too, it's a fighting pose and he is a martial artist, that's what DB is about. If you search, you can find repeated poses in Toriyama's work and, of course, in the anime too. Did anyone say about Gohan when he was fighting Botamo, 'Hey, he used that pose in the fight against Boo'. It's absurd.

[SaiyanGod117]

It was a dumb plan and You don't get credit for that. Why should he get credit for that? They got people killed including himself . This is like giving a participation award for doing the bare minimum and they sucked. All those plans proved was Goku was an idiot, who got extremely lucky 16 was there.

First of all, I don't even know what your talking about right here, I thought we're talking about the Buu Saga.

Also do you know Vegeta? He rather be crushed than pitied. He was far more angry that Goku tricked him into thinking he could win. Not to mention, Vegeta only did what he did to fight Goku. Yet Goku chose to fight him evenly and THREATEN someone just trying to do his job.

"Vegeta only did what he did to fight Goku" You know how twisted that sounds right, so he knowingly put the Earth in Jeopardy, submit his mind to even a warlock knowing that would help his plans to revive an evil mosnter, and killed half a stadium full spectators to fight with Goku and satisfy his pride. All of these actions were out of Goku's control, the only action that was in his control was during his fight Vegeta, but that would be without major repercussions, when you take into account Vegeta's state of mind at the time and his track record of the following courses of actions he does after being humiliated.

Goku was directly responsible for both the Cell and Buu saga. And instead of fighting until he is barely breathing like he would have in ball, he throws it on children, more importantly his own children and it only made matters worse.

You must mean Vegeta? As he let Andriod 18 be absorbed, and as I said before about Trunks and Goten, he had the right idea, though went at the wrong way of executing it. In theory it wasn't bad at all, though Majin Buu was too big of a villain for beginners like them to handle, on the flip side they almost beat him but unfortunately the fusion ran out. Moreover, it would be disingenuous to say the sole magnitude and responsibility to defeat Majin Buu was all there's, as they did have Piccolo for guidance and key resources at their disposal like the Timechamber with added bonus of already being prodigious Super Saiyans.

Now Ball Goku didn't have this problem,a guy did something bad, he did everything he could to stop them even if he was weaker. He never put any problem on anyone else. More importantly, his actions never got anyone murdered. Did I also forget that he didn't let people go except one who really didn't do anything wrong.

Two different stories really as Kid Goku was mainly entering in tournaments and traveling the world. Plus he was a child, you see things differently as a child, if anything Kid Goku was more reckless.