Hakaishin Liquir wrote:The Piccolo vs Rubarut fight was confusing. Rubarut was dominating Piccolo and then he got KO'ed by Hellzone Grenade. How could he get KO'ed by that attack if he was dominating Piccolo? I don't recall Piccolo being the type to hold back significantly and test his opponents like Goku does.
Yeah, that was super weird. Maybe the subtitles will clear things up, but it looked like Rubarut was kicking Piccolo's ass, but, no Piccolo just no sells his assault entirely. I can only imagine Piccolo did that to lure Rubarut into a false sense of security, while also creating a decent amount of distance between him and Rubarut, and that made the attack of Hellzone Grenade all the more unexpected, and thus making the elimination easier for him. Sounds really over-complicated, but the main cast loving making any kind of fighting situation more challenging than it has to be.
This is exactly what the subs imply.
Piccolo wasn't even damaged after all those attacks.
Lord Beerus wrote:- Android 17 and Ribrianne fight evenly
- Rozie has her fighting style used against her and Goku get the advantage on her.
- Opni use a unique afterimage technique to get advantage against Base Gohan
- Rubarut beats around Piccolo, but Piccolo no sells his assault and Piccolo casually knocks out Rubarut with his Hellzone Grenade attack
- Gohan powers up into his Ultimate form and absolutely clobbers Opni for an extend period of time and eliminates his easily with a Kamehameha.
- The NEP also shows that Dyspo is using his speed to blitz attack Hit and SSJG Goku and seems to be able to have advantage against the both of them.
I'm glad that they made Ribrianne ~SSB level (unless 17 was holding back or some bs like that).
Rozie is disappointing. She is one of U2's top 3 fighters and she was losing to base Goku? Wtf is that?
I'm hoping that Ultimate Gohan wasn't holding back. I want U10 to have at least one SSJ3 level fighter, and that's where Opni would be if Gohan was going all out (but knowing Toei Gohan was probably holding back)
The Piccolo vs Rubarut fight was confusing. Rubarut was dominating Piccolo and then he got KO'ed by Hellzone Grenade. How could he get KO'ed by that attack if he was dominating Piccolo? I don't recall Piccolo being the type to hold back significantly and test his opponents like Goku does.
Piccolo was luring him into a position where he could trap him for his Hellzone Grenade attack. He says so in the subs. I'm not sure if you wrote this without watching the subbed episode. He also holds back his full power like all fighters do. Maybe not to the extent Goku does when he purposely misleads opponents into thinking he's at his max, but there's no need for a fighter to use the full extent of their power until necessary because of stamina loss. Even fighters like 17, who don't have to worry about stamina loss, don't tip their hand by showing their full power until needed.
Hakaishin Liquir wrote:The Piccolo vs Rubarut fight was confusing. Rubarut was dominating Piccolo and then he got KO'ed by Hellzone Grenade. How could he get KO'ed by that attack if he was dominating Piccolo? I don't recall Piccolo being the type to hold back significantly and test his opponents like Goku does.
Yeah, that was super weird. Maybe the subtitles will clear things up, but it looked like Rubarut was kicking Piccolo's ass, but, no Piccolo just no sells his assault entirely. I can only imagine Piccolo did that to lure Rubarut into a false sense of security, while also creating a decent amount of distance between him and Rubarut, and that made the attack of Hellzone Grenade all the more unexpected, and thus making the elimination easier for him. Sounds really over-complicated, but the main cast loving making any kind of fighting situation more challenging than it has to be.
This is exactly what the subs imply.
Piccolo wasn't even damaged after all those attacks.
There was a little dent in Piccolo's face. I thought that was from the punch. Or was that just bad animation?
Hakaishin Liquir wrote:
I'm glad that they made Ribrianne ~SSB level (unless 17 was holding back or some bs like that).
Rozie is disappointing. She is one of U2's top 3 fighters and she was losing to base Goku? Wtf is that?
I'm hoping that Ultimate Gohan wasn't holding back. I want U10 to have at least one SSJ3 level fighter, and that's where Opni would be if Gohan was going all out (but knowing Toei Gohan was probably holding back)
The Piccolo vs Rubarut fight was confusing. Rubarut was dominating Piccolo and then he got KO'ed by Hellzone Grenade. How could he get KO'ed by that attack if he was dominating Piccolo? I don't recall Piccolo being the type to hold back significantly and test his opponents like Goku does.
No.
Helles said that the kamikaze fireball normal power was not enough(She knew they were weak), only their love power was said to be the highest in all multiverse.
Pell implied that they have strong men in their team to defend the maidens(kamikaze fireballs).
Gohan only defeated Obni because Obni gassed out for overusing his technique.
Hakaishin Liquir wrote:
I'm glad that they made Ribrianne ~SSB level (unless 17 was holding back or some bs like that).
Rozie is disappointing. She is one of U2's top 3 fighters and she was losing to base Goku? Wtf is that?
I'm hoping that Ultimate Gohan wasn't holding back. I want U10 to have at least one SSJ3 level fighter, and that's where Opni would be if Gohan was going all out (but knowing Toei Gohan was probably holding back)
The Piccolo vs Rubarut fight was confusing. Rubarut was dominating Piccolo and then he got KO'ed by Hellzone Grenade. How could he get KO'ed by that attack if he was dominating Piccolo? I don't recall Piccolo being the type to hold back significantly and test his opponents like Goku does.
No.
Helles said that the kamikaze fireball normal power was not enough(She knew they were weak), only their love power was said to be the highest in all multiverse.
Pell implied that they have strong men in their team to defend the maidens(kamikaze fireballs).
Gohan only defeated Obni because Obni gassed out for overusing his technique.
Obni only ever had a chance because of his technique in the first place. Mystic Gohan was able to Obni's strikes on purpose with minimal damage just to find out where he was.
Lord Beerus wrote:- Android 17 and Ribrianne fight evenly
- Rozie has her fighting style used against her and Goku get the advantage on her.
- Opni use a unique afterimage technique to get advantage against Base Gohan
- Rubarut beats around Piccolo, but Piccolo no sells his assault and Piccolo casually knocks out Rubarut with his Hellzone Grenade attack
- Gohan powers up into his Ultimate form and absolutely clobbers Opni for an extend period of time and eliminates his easily with a Kamehameha.
- The NEP also shows that Dyspo is using his speed to blitz attack Hit and SSJG Goku and seems to be able to have advantage against the both of them.
I'm glad that they made Ribrianne ~SSB level (unless 17 was holding back or some bs like that).
Rozie is disappointing. She is one of U2's top 3 fighters and she was losing to base Goku? Wtf is that?
I'm hoping that Ultimate Gohan wasn't holding back. I want U10 to have at least one SSJ3 level fighter, and that's where Opni would be if Gohan was going all out (but knowing Toei Gohan was probably holding back)
The Piccolo vs Rubarut fight was confusing. Rubarut was dominating Piccolo and then he got KO'ed by Hellzone Grenade. How could he get KO'ed by that attack if he was dominating Piccolo? I don't recall Piccolo being the type to hold back significantly and test his opponents like Goku does.
Thats the same thing he did against Drgero where he pretended to be knocked out so he could surprise attack the androids since he could not sense their power levels.
Granted it was a little weird that he did not even try to punch Rubarut before using his hellzone grenade for a quick finish.
Lord Beerus wrote:- Android 17 and Ribrianne fight evenly
- Rozie has her fighting style used against her and Goku get the advantage on her.
- Opni use a unique afterimage technique to get advantage against Base Gohan
- Rubarut beats around Piccolo, but Piccolo no sells his assault and Piccolo casually knocks out Rubarut with his Hellzone Grenade attack
- Gohan powers up into his Ultimate form and absolutely clobbers Opni for an extend period of time and eliminates his easily with a Kamehameha.
- The NEP also shows that Dyspo is using his speed to blitz attack Hit and SSJG Goku and seems to be able to have advantage against the both of them.
I'm glad that they made Ribrianne ~SSB level (unless 17 was holding back or some bs like that).
Rozie is disappointing. She is one of U2's top 3 fighters and she was losing to base Goku? Wtf is that?
I still highly doubt 17 is SSB level.
And I wouldn't say losing to base Goku is a bad thing. His power tends to fluctuate. Sometimes he is really strong taking on final form Frieza, he even kept up with Golden Frieza for a few seconds, he fought Beerus in the Monaka suit, and he fought copy Vegeta who stomped ssj3 Gotenks, and he kept up with skinny Buu. But then other times base Goku jobs to people and even had trouble with Krillin.
Didn't search in every little nook and cranny, but I don't see pretty much anything definite (or everything open to the interpretation) in this episode if not for the preview of Dyspo being almost certainly around Hit's and SSG's raw strength.
I'm instinctually leaning a little more towards the idea that #17 is on the lower end of the "SS - SSB" spectrum, but it's obviously gonna be open to (fierce?) debates, I guess.
Once again, my conclusion is that fights in this tournament have relaxed on the domination of power levels and played up the importance of strategy, skill, and style.
That means taking hits is a no-no, reading your opponent's movements is key, and dishing out hits is a go-go. REGARDLESS OF POWER LEVELS. Because these are martial arts fights, not just DBZ slugfests.
Seems the anime is going the manga route. With Hit being ssg lvl and not ssj blue. I guess, the reason ssg is back is because it is perhaps linked to Goku's new form or technique.
Maybe we should use the manga for powerscaling, since the anime is all over the place.
Hakaishin Liquir wrote:The Piccolo vs Rubarut fight was confusing. Rubarut was dominating Piccolo and then he got KO'ed by Hellzone Grenade. How could he get KO'ed by that attack if he was dominating Piccolo? I don't recall Piccolo being the type to hold back significantly and test his opponents like Goku does.
Yeah, that was super weird. Maybe the subtitles will clear things up, but it looked like Rubarut was kicking Piccolo's ass, but, no Piccolo just no sells his assault entirely. I can only imagine Piccolo did that to lure Rubarut into a false sense of security, while also creating a decent amount of distance between him and Rubarut, and that made the attack of Hellzone Grenade all the more unexpected, and thus making the elimination easier for him. Sounds really over-complicated, but the main cast loving making any kind of fighting situation more challenging than it has to be.
This is exactly what the subs imply.
Piccolo wasn't even damaged after all those attacks.
When do characters ever get damaged In Super? Gohan's Kamehameha didn't even damage Obuni, all it did was knock him out the arena.
buutenks wrote:
Maybe we should use the manga for powerscaling, since the anime is all over the place.
In definitive terms, for sure. The anime version of the ToP is all we've got right now, so I'm merely using it as the means for determining what the writers might have intended in their own attempts to keep everything consistent with the original drafts. They're not infallible though, and having a team of multiple writers taking turns with each episode can certainly increase the chances of a mistake or some other outlier in the overarching scaling.
I feel like it's not just power comparisons the manga will end up clarifying though -- probably background elements for some of these newer characters, too (e.g. are all of the Angels siblings, why is there a Yardrat character in Universe 2, why does Dyspo strongly resemble Beerus/Champa in appearance, etc.). Thus far, the anime doesn't seem to be overly concerned with series lore in this arc.
Last edited by Marlowe89 on Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:11 am, edited 2 times in total.
AvatarReiko wrote:So has Super reached GT levels of "power scalling/inconsistency yet?
We passed that a long time ago mate.
Episode 57 to be exact. Ironically, Dragon Ball Super's inconsistent power scaling has somehow worked in the advantage of supporting cast rather than against them like in GT.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
dragon boss z wrote:
Obni only ever had a chance because of his technique in the first place. Mystic Gohan was able to Obni's strikes on purpose with minimal damage just to find out where he was.
Gohan used the old school tanking the opponents attack on purpose to catch him, giving that Mystic gave Gohan much durability all he had to do was tank the attack in order to worn out Obni and it worked.
Its kinda funny that Obni couldve defeated the likes of Caulifla or Non Berserk Kale.
AvatarReiko wrote:So has Super reached GT levels of "power scalling/inconsistency yet?
We passed that a long time ago mate.
Episode 57 to be exact. Ironically, Dragon Ball Super's inconsistent power scaling has somehow worked in the advantage of supporting cast rather than against them like in GT.
I would say Ep 8 combined with Ep 39 fucks everything nice and hard with LOL Rageta forcing Beerus to use 10% of his power and Goku Blue KKX10 being inferior to Beerus well before 57
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Absolute Zamasu(my name for their fusion) wins. He fulfils his utopia and dwells in his loneliness(x amount of time for this to happen). He starts to doubt of his achievements, Goku's body influences him to seek out challenges but there's nothing. Perfection becomes a curse. Absolute Zamasu starts to dread his existence and presents himself to the Omni-King, detailing on his actions.
Using his powers the Omni-King restores everything to the moment before Goku and Vegeta perish, humanity's last barrier. Zamasu concedes. He ask for forgiveness(mainly to Goku, Gowasu and Trunks) and understands that his justice isn't justice at all. He asks for judgement and the Omni-King delivers.
Trunks is forced never to travel in time ever again, all the time-machines are destroyed.
JazzMazz wrote:
We passed that a long time ago mate.
Episode 57 to be exact. Ironically, Dragon Ball Super's inconsistent power scaling has somehow worked in the advantage of supporting cast rather than against them like in GT.
I would say Ep 8 combined with Ep 39 fucks everything nice and hard with LOL Rageta forcing Beerus to use 10% of his power and Goku Blue KKX10 being inferior to Beerus well before 57
I think Beerus was lying about the 10% line. I mean, he was constantly lying about how much power he was using in the BOG.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
Whatever wrote:
Thats the same thing he did against Drgero where he pretended to be knocked out so he could surprise attack the androids since he could not sense their power levels.
Granted it was a little weird that he did not even try to punch Rubarut before using his hellzone grenade for a quick finish.
Same against Cell when they first meet. He lets his arm get absorbed and pretends to be disadvantaged enough that Cell lowers his guard and starts talking.
Seems like he likes this tactic.
I mean, it'd be neat if that's what they were thinking when writing this fight.
The preview does refer to Dyspo as a super powerful enemy. It wouldn't be far fetched for him to be God level considering Toppo and Jiren's strength.
It doesn't say anything about him being faster than light though not does the name of the episode itself (at least in the subs I'm looking at) so hopefully that ain't a thing.
