Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Miracles]

Yeah, if Beerus is stronger than MSSB Goku and MSSB Vegeta, who took on Merged Zamasu, then it should go: Beerus > SSB Vegito > Merged Zamasu ~=~ MSSB Goku ~=~ MSSB Vegeta

In the anime's case it would be: Beerus > SSB Vegito > Merged Zamasu ~=~ SSB KK Goku > SSB Vegeta

The manga stated that Vegetto surpassed Beerus when powering up.

[ZombieVito]

For the people that use one base, please explain to me how SSR Black is comparable to SSB Goku when the former's base is 400 times stronger than the latter.

[ekrolo2]

For the people that use one base, please explain to me how SSR Black is comparable to SSB Goku when the former's base is 400 times stronger than the latter.

Make Blue a bigger multiplier and have SSR be a fifty times boost. The anime already implies that Rose is just Black's version of a regular SS and not Blue. The manga's something I'll get back to you later.

[Doctor.]

For the people that use one base, please explain to me how SSR Black is comparable to SSB Goku when the former's base is 400 times stronger than the latter.

The anime outright states that SSR is Black's Super Saiyan form.

[ekrolo2]

For the people that use one base, please explain to me how SSR Black is comparable to SSB Goku when the former's base is 400 times stronger than the latter.

The anime outright states that SSR is Black's Super Saiyan form.

It does?

[ZombieVito]

The anime outright states that SSR is Black's Super Saiyan form.

That sort of works, I guess. This should confirm SSB's multiplier is at least 200,000.

I suppose all the times Goku and Vegeta fought in base with weaker characters they held back a great deal.

Frost was way weaker than we thought after Goku's battle.

Future Trunks got that strong thanks to Zenkais.

Now the only problem remaining is Basil. He's outright shown to be on the same realm of power as base Goku but a stronger Basil was weaker than Boo who is weaker than base Goku.

[Doctor.]

For the people that use one base, please explain to me how SSR Black is comparable to SSB Goku when the former's base is 400 times stronger than the latter.

The anime outright states that SSR is Black's Super Saiyan form.

It does?

Episode 62. Vegeta states that Black can turn into a "Super Saiyan" on top of being able to increase his battle power. I guess you can interpret it as something more general, just the Super Saiyan form hierarchy in general, but I think it's pretty clear here he means SS1.

[ekrolo2]

Future Trunks got that strong thanks to Zenkais.

[ZombieVito]

Future Trunks got that strong thanks to Zenkais.

Well that and training but considering he was comparable to Dabra a few years before it's obvious the majority of his power came from him getting his ass kicked by Black for a year.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

As we see with SSRage, Future Trunks DOES have some massive potential power. He's also a half-breed Saiyan, which means his potential and power growth were already much greater than that of most pure-blood Saiyans.

Plus, he got his ass kicked A LOT by Goku Black and yet hadn't died. He could training himself up as well when he can, and he's got all of the above going for him for several years.

As for Goku Black himself, it's actually pretty smart of the anime staff to exclude the yellow-haired SS form from their version of the Future Trunks Arc, as it means that they don't have to deal with potential issues regarding SSR being equal to SSB whilst Goku Black in base is equal to or greater than SS3 Goku. As well, if SSR is meant to basically just be Goku Black's SS form, and if it holds the same 50 times boost that its yellow-haired counterpart has as established when SS2 Goku fought Present Zamasu, we also have a neat scale for how strong gods like SSG, SSB, etc., are compared to Goku and Vegeta currently.

[ekrolo2]

Future Trunks got that strong thanks to Zenkais.

Well that and training but considering he was comparable to Dabra a few years before it's obvious the majority of his power came from him getting his ass kicked by Black for a year.

That's if Zenkai happen anymore which, considering several beat downs that occur later on with no apparent gains at all, I'd sooner chalk up Trunks' strength gains to nothing more than badly explained plot contrivances.

[Bullza]

For the people that use one base, please explain to me how SSR Black is comparable to SSB Goku when the former's base is 400 times stronger than the latter.

Apparently Super Saiyan God or Super Saiyan isn't a set multiplier.

Their God Ki and their normal Ki are two different sources of power. So I imagine that just because Blacks Ki is over 400 times greater than Goku's, doesn't mean that has to be true when it comes to God Ki.

Current Base Goku should be thousands of times stronger than he was during the Battle of Gods saga but would anyone say the current Super Saiyan God from the latest episode was thousands of times stronger than back when he fought Beerus? He isn't.

[ZombieVito]

That's if Zenkai happen anymore which, considering several beat downs that occur later on with no apparent gains at all, I'd sooner chalk up Trunks' strength gains to nothing more than badly explained plot contrivances.

Zenkai's only stop when a Saiyan reaches all the potential their bodies have. This was explained by Trunks in the manga.

Apparently Super Saiyan God or Super Saiyan isn't a set multiplier.

Their God Ki and their normal Ki are two different sources of power. So I imagine that just because Blacks Ki is over 400 times greater than Goku's, doesn't mean that has to be true when it comes to God Ki.

Current Base Goku should be thousands of times stronger than he was during the Battle of Gods saga but would anyone say the current Super Saiyan God from the latest episode was thousands of times stronger than back when he fought Beerus? He isn't.

This honestly sounds like two bases.

[ekrolo2]

That's if Zenkai happen anymore which, considering several beat downs that occur later on with no apparent gains at all, I'd sooner chalk up Trunks' strength gains to nothing more than badly explained plot contrivances.

Zenkai's only stop when a Saiyan reaches all the potential their bodies have. This was explained by Trunks in the manga.

Then why doesn't anyone get Zenkai after Namek? Why doesn't Vegeta power up some more after Cell kicks his ass? Or Goku when he gets beaten down by a Cell Jr? Or Goku after he and Vegeta beat the shit out of each other? Or Vegeta again when he's healed after getting his teeth kicked in by Kid Boo?

[ZombieVito]

Then why doesn't anyone get Zenkai after Namek? Why doesn't Vegeta power up some more after Cell kicks his ass? Or Goku when he gets beaten down by a Cell Jr? Or Goku after he and Vegeta beat the shit out of each other? Or Vegeta again when he's healed after getting his teeth kicked in by Kid Boo?

I already said why.

[ekrolo2]

Then why doesn't anyone get Zenkai after Namek? Why doesn't Vegeta power up some more after Cell kicks his ass? Or Goku when he gets beaten down by a Cell Jr? Or Goku after he and Vegeta beat the shit out of each other? Or Vegeta again when he's healed after getting his teeth kicked in by Kid Boo?

I already said why.

I know what you said, I'm saying it doesn't make sense as Trunks is already as strong as Goku & Vegeta post-God training when he shows up but Goku & Vegeta stopped getting Zenkai back in the low millions range and hadn't surpassed Freeza until BoG in Base.

[Bullza]

This honestly sounds like two bases.

Well I suppose it kinda is in a way. Super Saiyan God is Base Goku with God Ki and Super Saiyan Blue is Super Saiyan Goku with God Ki.

Their Base power and their Super Saiyan power is all just their own normal Ki but Super Saiyan God is its own separate God Ki.

Training their body and increasing the power of their normal Ki might do nothing at all for their God Ki.

[ZombieVito]

I know what you said, I'm saying it doesn't make sense as Trunks is already as strong as Goku & Vegeta post-God training when he shows up but Goku & Vegeta stopped getting Zenkai back in the low millions range and hadn't surpassed Freeza until BoG in Base.

Well, half breeds have way more potential than pure Saiyans. Nothing really contradicts this.

Training their body and increasing the power of their normal Ki might do nothing at all for their God Ki.

That doesn't sound right. Why even bother to train in base if that's true?

[ekrolo2]

I already said why.

I know what you said, I'm saying it doesn't make sense as Trunks is already as strong as Goku & Vegeta post-God training when he shows up but Goku & Vegeta stopped getting Zenkai back in the low millions range and hadn't surpassed Freeza until BoG in Base.

Well, half breeds have way more potential than pure Saiyans. Nothing really contradicts this.

Where's all this massive potential in stuff from beforehand, though? Why isn't Trunks Boohan tier from spending an entire life time with the Androids around? Why isn't he a lot stronger than Vegeta in Base when they exit the ROSAT with him?

I've a simpler answer for these questions: Super's anime writers are Trunks fanboys and as DB fanboys do when they write DB (see Episode of Bardock) their favorite gets magic bullshit power ups to make him look extra cool, logical sense be damned.

[ZombieVito]

Where's all this massive potential in stuff from beforehand, though? Why isn't Trunks Boohan tier from spending an entire life time with the Androids around? Why isn't he a lot stronger than Vegeta in Base when they exit the ROSAT with him?

I've a simpler answer for these questions: Super's anime writers are Trunks fanboys and as DB fanboys do when they write DB (see Episode of Bardock) their favorite gets magic bullshit power ups to make him look extra cool, logical sense be damned.

Well if Zenkais aren't a sufficient answer for you then we can also use what Toriyama said a few years back in an interview.

He said something like: The stronger the opponent is the stronger the Saiyan gets during the battle.

All 3 of those explanations combined is enough for me.