Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Base Goku's strength has been retconned.

Freeza was equal to F arc base Goku, he's not equal to current base Goku who's much weaker.

There's no in-universe explanation but people just need to accept that the writers never portrayed Goku's strength consistently.

Retcon is thrown around willy-nilly around here, especially when there is no in or out of universe evidence that Goku's base form is much weaker other than downplay.

It's especially egregious when people CONTINUE to conflate power with performance, as though the latter is only possible because of the former and must unequivocably be the case. It's starting to get to me, I must say.

[LowRyder2005]

I always like the mileage involved in these kind of accusations. Because, let's be honest, making theories about Goku's Super Saiyan being whimsically, and pretty randomly, suppressed to lower than base levels when the guy has no logical reason not to suppress his base directly is more intellectually honest... wait, how?

As far as we know, we've been left at the point when base Goku can't fend off Basil on his own (all the while, Mr. Buu can tank everything a powered-up Basil throws at him), a powered-up Roshi is no finger-flick material (and worthy of praise) and #18 saves Goku by virtue of lifting way more than he can. Oh, I forgot that a "weaker than Ultimate" Super Saiyan Gohan can still fight it out without Gohan being killed by a fart of the "not that much weaker than Super Saiyan God" Super Saiyan Goku.

Before, I think I remember we had base Vegeta destroying SS3 Gotenks and eclipsing Super Saiyan Gohan's power.

But yeah, God forbade we talk about a retcon! It's clear these folks just really like to take things out of context and downplay the characters they don't like.

[Marlowe89]

"Downplay" has become such a disingenuously hilarious non-argument that I've pretty much come to ignore it on principle now, especially when the posters regurgitating it have absolutely no counter or substance to anything they're saying. If my posts were as petty and shallow as some of these other ones, I could just as easily accuse people of wanking base Goku if I really wanted.

Even more amusingly, it almost seems as if those so offended by the idea are really just subconsciously bothered by whatever's portrayed in the actual show rather than what some of us are simply pointing out.

[JazzMazz]

I always like the mileage involved in these kind of accusations. Because, let's be honest, making theories about Goku's Super Saiyan being whimsically, and pretty randomly, suppressed to lower than base levels when the guy has no logical reason not to suppress his base directly is more intellectually honest... wait, how?

As far as we know, we've been left at the point when base Goku can't fend off Basil on his own (all the while, Mr. Buu can tank everything a powered-up Basil throws at him), a powered-up Roshi is no finger-flick material (and worthy of praise) and #18 saves Goku by virtue of lifting way more than he can. Oh, I forgot that a "weaker than Ultimate" Super Saiyan Gohan can still fight it out without Gohan being killed by a fart of the "not that much weaker than Super Saiyan God" Super Saiyan Goku.

Before, I think I remember we had base Vegeta destroying SS3 Gotenks and eclipsing Super Saiyan Gohan's power.

But yeah, God forbade we talk about a retcon! It's clear these folks just really like to take things out of context and downplay the characters they don't like.

Though I do agree with what your saying, I feel like some of your examples you used were a little flimsy.

How about Tagoma who Gohan described as being "as good as him at his best", got 2 shotted by SS Gohan who hadn't been training.

How was Piccolo able to fight Frost, even in his weakened state when he had previously been killed effortlessly by first form Freeza. Frost even commented that if Piccolo had landed his DKLPC, than Frost would have lost.

Or how Gohan who hadn't been training was a good sparring partner for Goku who is apparently more powerful than Gotenks SS3 in base.

There are any number of inconsistencies that occur throughout the show. It's not hard to come to the conclusion that they retro-actively ret-con Goku's strength to fit the "scenario" his in.

[Doctor.]

Retcon is thrown around willy-nilly around here, especially when there is no in or out of universe evidence that Goku's base form is much weaker other than downplay.

Piccolo was able to handle Frost, someone that both Goku AND Vegeta thought going SS was necessary to deal with. That same Piccolo was the last choice on Goku and Vegeta's mind when choosing members for the tournament, whilst Boo was their first choice. Future Trunks was comparable to SS2 Goku when just a few years back he was having trouble dealing with Dabura. Zamasu was comparable to SS2 Goku when Beerus knew of his existence and he had been searching for a powerful opponent for ages. Gohan was comparable to base and SS Goku yet the same Gohan was stated to have been weaker than his Boo arc self. Kuririn was comparable to base Gohan, enough to smack him around, and comparable to base Goku, enough to push him and force him to transform. Basil could handle base Goku yet Mr. Boo was completely tanking hits from a powered-up Basil. #18 was able to lift an opponent that base Goku was having too much trouble with.

If we choose to believe that Goku is stronger than SS3 Gotenks in base (and this Gotenks is at the same level he was back in the Boo arc), then you are admitting that every character in U7's Tournament of Power team has gotten exponentially stronger than most Boo arc characters in mere hours; this is because every character in the team is in some way comparable to base Goku.

Honestly, I don't even care, this series has no consistency, I personally believe that each writer just has their own idea of base Goku's strength and writes each episode around it (I'm sure you can spot some patterns if you go back and check which episodes have been written by who) but you can believe that Goku's base is super strong, there's evidence for it. But completely ignoring and refusing to accept the possibility that there has been a retcon is the most extremist point of view I've ever seen anyone take in regards to this series, and that's saying something.

[LowRyder2005]

I always like the mileage involved in these kind of accusations. Because, let's be honest, making theories about Goku's Super Saiyan being whimsically, and pretty randomly, suppressed to lower than base levels when the guy has no logical reason not to suppress his base directly is more intellectually honest... wait, how?

As far as we know, we've been left at the point when base Goku can't fend off Basil on his own (all the while, Mr. Buu can tank everything a powered-up Basil throws at him), a powered-up Roshi is no finger-flick material (and worthy of praise) and #18 saves Goku by virtue of lifting way more than he can. Oh, I forgot that a "weaker than Ultimate" Super Saiyan Gohan can still fight it out without Gohan being killed by a fart of the "not that much weaker than Super Saiyan God" Super Saiyan Goku.

Before, I think I remember we had base Vegeta destroying SS3 Gotenks and eclipsing Super Saiyan Gohan's power.

But yeah, God forbade we talk about a retcon! It's clear these folks just really like to take things out of context and downplay the characters they don't like.

Though I do agree with what your saying, I feel like some of your examples you used were a little flimsy.

How about Tagoma who Gohan described as being "as good as him at his best", got 2 shotted by SS Gohan who hadn't been training.

How was Piccolo able to fight Frost, even in his weakened state when he had previously been killed effortlessly by first form Freeza. Frost even commented that if Piccolo had landed his DKLPC, than Frost would have lost.

Or how Gohan who hadn't been training was a good sparring partner for Goku who is apparently more powerful than Gotenks SS3 in base.

There are any number of inconsistencies that occur throughout the show. It's not hard to come to the conclusion that they retro-actively ret-con Goku's strength to fit the "scenario" his in.

There's a... well, fairly extensive coverage on Gohan's statement, especially multiple clarification on Herms' part, pointing out that the confusion stems from the wording of the translation. The original Japanese implements a specific figure of speech - to make it short - indicating that Tagoma would've only been as strong as a non-tired/fresh ROF Gohan; the formula is universally used to indicate your top form on a particular day in the present.

This tidbit keeps resurfacing periodically in this topic alone; yet, the "Tagoma = Ultimate Gohan from the Buu arc" because of Gohan supposedly stating that his enemy is strong as he was at his "physical apex" is a technically baseless theory -- which can't really work, of course, also because the Ultimate Gohan seen later is treated as much, much stronger than Super Saiyan Gohan.

Other than that, I don't really get the other examples. When I say that there's quite the big possibility that a retcon happened along the way I'm also agreeing with the notion that the series is inconsistent in general terms, and I'd make pretty much your exact same references.

[pacz360]

Base Goku's strength has been retconned.

Freeza was equal to F arc base Goku, he's not equal to current base Goku who's much weaker.

There's no in-universe explanation but people just need to accept that the writers never portrayed Goku's strength consistently.

Retcon is thrown around willy-nilly around here, especially when there is no in or out of universe evidence that Goku's base form is much weaker other than downplay.

Exactly trying to say base goku strength has been recton is ridiculous considering he...
traded blows with slim buu
Tanking an attack from piccolo
Surviving sidra energy ball til beerus came
Keeping up with golden freeza right before they powered up

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Once again, I have to bring this up..........

Why does performance have to be conflated with power?

In many examples brought up thus far, the key point missing is the application of the narrative at hand, and what the outline highlights on a per-episode basis. For example, SS Gohan and SS Goku were fighting so evenly because they were having fun doing so and lost track of their surroundings, as the narrative showcased was Goku being bored and wanting someone to spar with. Similarly, Krillin did so well against Goku and Gohan because he was a smart fighter that used different strategies to get around the fact that Gohan and Goku were stronger than him, as the narrative showcased was Krillin being a valuable fighter on the team because of his experience and outside-the-box thinking.

In these kinds of examples, the narrative squeezes the old rules to pave the way for its outline. That's not to say the old rules are completely out the window, though. In past arcs in the current anime, the old rules HAVE been applied to fit the narrative. For example, SS3 Gotenks could do nothing to Copy-Vegeta, as the narrative showcased was Copy-Vegeta being Vegeta's equal and thus a serious threat because of how strong he's gotten.

And in the Tournament of Power, we have more narrative application to factor in. For example, with Roshi vs. the Universe 4 fighters, the narrative showcased was Roshi's experience as a martial artist being used to overcome 3 uniquely different types of opponents. Similarly, with Goku vs. the Trio De Dangers, the narrative showcased was Goku being in trouble because he was being tag-teamed and thus unable to effectively fight them all off at once.

When the series calls to attention specific power-rankings in the style of the old material, THEN we can truly determine strength. But for these other instances? It might be easier to just view it with the mindset that power levels aren't being factored in at all, only how the martial arts themselves are being displayed.

[Bullza]

I don't think they'd have retconned it. At least I try to watch the show thinking they wouldn't have suddenly changed something they made evident numerous times beforehand.

Sometimes he seems weak and then other times he seems strong. I don't know if it's just an inconsistency or it depends on the writers or what.

Goku definitely does hold back. I'm not saying that every time he seems weak it's because he's holding back because that would be like a convenient excuse but they have made it clear that he does start slow and does let his guard down.

Like I mentioned before in the manga during the Universe 6 saga we saw Base Goku go from having trouble with Botamo all the way up to giving Hit some trouble.

[HeroR]

Retcon is thrown around willy-nilly around here, especially when there is no in or out of universe evidence that Goku's base form is much weaker other than downplay.

Piccolo was able to handle Frost, someone that both Goku AND Vegeta thought going SS was necessary to deal with. That same Piccolo was the last choice on Goku and Vegeta's mind when choosing members for the tournament, whilst Boo was their first choice. Future Trunks was comparable to SS2 Goku when just a few years back he was having trouble dealing with Dabura. Zamasu was comparable to SS2 Goku when Beerus knew of his existence and he had been searching for a powerful opponent for ages. Gohan was comparable to base and SS Goku yet the same Gohan was stated to have been weaker than his Boo arc self. Kuririn was comparable to base Gohan, enough to smack him around, and comparable to base Goku, enough to push him and force him to transform. Basil could handle base Goku yet Mr. Boo was completely tanking hits from a powered-up Basil. #18 was able to lift an opponent that base Goku was having too much trouble with.

If we choose to believe that Goku is stronger than SS3 Gotenks in base (and this Gotenks is at the same level he was back in the Boo arc), then you are admitting that every character in U7's Tournament of Power team has gotten exponentially stronger than most Boo arc characters in mere hours; this is because every character in the team is in some way comparable to base Goku.

Honestly, I don't even care, this series has no consistency, I personally believe that each writer just has their own idea of base Goku's strength and writes each episode around it (I'm sure you can spot some patterns if you go back and check which episodes have been written by who) but you can believe that Goku's base is super strong, there's evidence for it. But completely ignoring and refusing to accept the possibility that there has been a retcon is the most extremist point of view I've ever seen anyone take in regards to this series, and that's saying something.

The show itself explained why it Piccolo did as well as he did against Frost. It wasn't because Piccolo was suddenly up to par with base form Goku and Vegeta. If it isn't clear at this point, there isn't much I can tell you since this has been explained to death since 2016.

Super Saiyan 2 Future Trunks wasn't comparable to Super Saiyan 2 Goku. Goku literally did nothing but block Trunks' attack and easily caught his fists. Krillin did better against base form Goku since he actually made Goku move. Also, Black easily beat up Super Saiyan 2 Trunks, yet he was impressed by Super Saiyan 2 Goku's power, which makes little sense if Super Saiyan 2 was comparable to Trunks.

Present Zamasu was comparable to Super Saiyan 2 Goku, which I don't see the problem with this. He was prodigy Supreme Kai that Goku said could surpassed Beerus one day. And why would Beerus go into a different universe to fight someone else's Supreme Kai? That is like asking why did Beerus want to fight a Super Saiyan God since he had the other Gods of Destruction to fight.

Gohan wasn't comparable to Super Saiyan Goku in Episode 77 because Episode 90 said that Gohan got stronger overall thought his training with Piccolo, not just getting his Ultimate form back. If Goku was even with Gohan in Episode 77, Piccolo would have beating Goku since he strangled Super Saiyan 2 Gohan. Yet, Piccolo with a charged attack didn't do a thing to base form Goku. In comparison, Gohan really pushed base form Goku in just his base form.

Krillin is also not comparable to base form Goku. It was stated I Episode 83 that Krillin was much weaker than base form Gohan, but won thanks to trickery. Which again goes back to Gohan not being comparable to base form Goku because Gohan got stronger after Episode 88 and he was equal to base form Goku then.

Basil couldn't do anything to base form Goku and only did as well as he did because he had an entire team backing him. Goku also fought a stronger and faster Slim Buu in his base form and Buu only 'tanked' Basil's attack because how how Buu's body and regeneration works.

Goku didn't lift that guy from U10 because the guy is literally on his back and we don't even know if he was the same weight he tried to crust 18. It's the different between lifting 100lbs and having 100lbs stepped onto your body.

I don't have to 'chose to believe'. The show showed us that base form Goku in the Champa Saga is stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks and the show also stated that Goku has gotten stronger since then.

Each writer don't 'retcon' the power level since everything the writers do goes through a producer who approved everything. Your statements also ignores statements in the show as well as context. So there is no 'retcon' other than fans not believing certain characters got stronger or not understanding how strong a character was at this point in the series, which caused them to downplay or overplay characters. To say Goku's base form got 'retcon' goes against what have been said in the show, which 'Goku has gotten stronger'. We saw it in the Future Trunks Saga, we saw it in the Hit fight where Goku could fight and counter Hit with the Kaioken and Goku said Hit got stronger, we saw it again in 104 where Goku said that Hit got stronger again. Nothing suggests that everyone suddenly regressed.

And "But completely ignoring and refusing to accept the possibility that there has been a retcon is the most extremist point of view I've ever seen anyone take in regards to this series". That just tells me just how mess up this fandom is. A retcon is something that is acknowledge within the story or even outside by the creator. Not something fans 'think' happened.

[Doctor.]

Exactly trying to say base goku strength has been recton is ridiculous considering he...
traded blows with slim buu
Tanking an attack from piccolo
Surviving sidra energy ball til beerus came
Keeping up with golden freeza right before they powered up

There's evidence for both sides, but none of those feats prove that Goku's stronger than SS3 Gotenks. There's a long way to go from tanking Piccolo's attack to beating Gotenks.

For example, SS Gohan and SS Goku were fighting so evenly because they were having fun doing so and lost track of their surroundings, as the narrative showcased was Goku being bored and wanting someone to spar with.

And Goku wouldn't have fun if he was suppressing himself so much. Why would he turn Super Saiyan only to suppress himself even MORE? He'd stay in base form and fight Gohan's Super Saiyan form for a more even fight. Your only argument here is an out-of-universe one, the crew thought that a Super Saiyan duel would look cool. There's no in-universe explanation, Goku may have been going easy but he wouldn't have transformed if Gohan and him weren't comparable.

Similarly, Krillin did so well against Goku and Gohan because he was a smart fighter that used different strategies to get around the fact that Gohan and Goku were stronger than him

And you're ignoring the fact that Kuririn still managed to smack Goku and Gohan around. He wouldn't have done that if his power wasn't comparable to theirs. Do you see Saiyan arc Kuririn pushing Freeza around because he's a "smart fighter with different strategies"? No. Every punch or Ki blast he'd throw would be effortlessly tanked. Kuririn's strategies were only effective because his power was already comparable to his opponents. He was weaker but not by a ton.

The narrative that you're (and everyone else, in an effort to *cough* "downplay") ignoring is that Kuririn FORCED Goku to turn Super Saiyan. If that isn't obvious, I don't know what is.

It might be easier to just view it with the mindset that power levels aren't being factored in at all

You're pretty much asking us to throw away everything we know about Dragon Ball to justify DBS' awful consistency.

[HeroR]

"Downplay" has become such a disingenuously hilarious non-argument that I've pretty much come to ignore it on principle now, especially when the posters regurgitating it have absolutely no counter or substance to anything they're saying. If my posts were as petty and shallow as some of these other ones, I could just as easily accuse people of wanking base Goku if I really wanted.

Even more amusingly, it almost seems as if those so offended by the idea are really just subconsciously bothered by whatever's portrayed in the actual show rather than what some of us are simply pointing out.

While downplay is overused, I wouldn't call it disingenuous since a lot of fans do used it because, 'they can't believe a character be this strong'. We just have to look how some fans downplay 17 into being only as strong as Super Saiyan 3, despite Goku saying 17 made him go Blue. The same with Kale who I wouldn't put above Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku, I would put her within the power range of him since she did tanked a Kamehameha.

Overplay also happens, like fans thinking Krillin is equal to base form Goku despite statements in the show.

The point is that Super does have 'off-moments' in the power scale, but that doesn't mean a 'retcon' happened. It's more that Toei, for the sake of story and drama will used 'Rule of Cool' over power levels. Like how did Super Saiyan 2 Trunks parry and kick Black Rose into a building and survived a Kamehameha from him that critically injured Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku? Is it because he's actually on par with Black or Goku. No, it's because Toei in that moment chose to make Trunks look cool and they couldn't kill him in that episode. When the proper power scale was put back in place, Trunks got destroyed by Black and Zamasu, and Goku and Vegeta needed to protect him.

The same with Goku vs. Genos. Genos was able to take a punch from Goku and not be sent flying out of the ring since a stronger Genos wasn't much higher than Roshi (high in the sense that his strength would render Roshi's experience moot). Why is that? Is it because Roshi is base form Goku's level? No, it was more that Toei didn't want Goku to send Genos flying out of the ring and they highlighted why Roshi did well by making Genos look like a noob.

PerhapsTheOtherOne explained this point best.

[LowRyder2005]

Basil couldn't do anything to base form Goku and only did as well as he did because he had an entire team backing him. Goku also fought a stronger and faster Slim Buu in his base form and Buu only 'tanked' Basil's attack because how how Buu's body and regeneration works.

That's arguably a gross misrepresentation. Even if wanted to agree that three weak guys attacking Goku is now enough to make Goku unable to slap away a single foe, someone dozens of times weaker (subverting stuff like what happened against the Ginyu force), Goku also trades fist with Basil one on one when Vegeta arrives and each party is trying to eliminate the other. What happens is that they're both dead even, when one of a "Ultimate Gohan-tier" Goku's punches should've sufficed into killing Basil or pushing him out of bounds, and the plot direction makes it crystal clear the two needed Super Saiyan to one-shot everyone else.

It's also been made abundantly clear, also, that Buu cannot "tank" hits from opponents vastly stronger than him and that he can be helpless in getting any kind of advantage if the opponent is appreciably above him. Never mind that the context is that a dramatically powered-up Basil still can't hurt Mr. Buu and is told by Buu himself that he's "much, much weaker"; the gap between a "serious" base Goku and regular Basil should be even more gigantic.

Goku didn't lift that guy from U10 because the guy is literally on his back and we don't even know if he was the same weight he tried to crust 18. It's the different between lifting 100lbs and having 100lbs stepped onto your body.

So lifting a backpack is harder than lifting dumbbells? Because no, it doesn't work that way. And it still doesn't answer the question of how a character with a battle power of 1 can easily lift more than a guy with a battle power of 100, 1,000 or 10,000. Or how the guy with the gigantic power level needed to be saved by the guy with a power level of 1 in the first place.

Gohan wasn't comparable to Super Saiyan Goku in Episode 77 because Episode 90 said that Gohan got stronger overall thought his training with Piccolo, not just getting his Ultimate form back. If Goku was even with Gohan in Episode 77, Piccolo would have beating Goku since he strangled Super Saiyan 2 Gohan. Yet, Piccolo with a charged attack didn't do a thing to base form Goku. In comparison, Gohan really pushed base form Goku in just his base form.

This also doesn't answer his question, nor does it address his concern. Gohan doesn't need to be comparable to Super Saiyan Goku to prove his point, making Goku *transform* is enough.
If Goku wants to handicap himself to Gohan's level he can do it by lowering his power in base form; arguing that we're supposed to autonomously reach the conclusion reach he raised his power and then lowered it to some ridiculously tiny fraction while keeping his Super Saiyan form, when this is not even expressly stated or implied, and that otherwise we're "biased" is, frankly, complete nonsense and almost offensive for any of the parties involved.
And it's not like one can't make less strange theories (compared to all of which we've theorized above to circumvent dozens of other implications and comparatively absurd behavior) about Piccolo -- since he'd have no reason to hurt Goku anyway, to begin with, and the tag is a mock fight in which they're testing their tactics, not a full-blown battle to the death.

[Loputousu]

Can't wait to see what will happen to this topic if we see Base Goku vs Jiren straight out of the OP.

[Doctor.]

Can't wait to see what will happen to this topic if we see Base Goku vs Jiren straight out of the OP.

It would mean absolutely nothing because Jiren supposedly is above Super Saiyan Blue, and if he can suppress himself to >SS3 Gotenks levels to fight evenly with Goku, then surely he can also suppress himself to Boo arc base levels.

[pacz360]

Exactly trying to say base goku strength has been recton is ridiculous considering he...
traded blows with slim buu
Tanking an attack from piccolo
Surviving sidra energy ball til beerus came
Keeping up with golden freeza right before they powered up

There's evidence for both sides, but none of those feats prove that Goku's stronger than SS3 Gotenks. There's a long way to go from tanking Piccolo's attack to beating Gotenks.

For example, SS Gohan and SS Goku were fighting so evenly because they were having fun doing so and lost track of their surroundings, as the narrative showcased was Goku being bored and wanting someone to spar with.

And Goku wouldn't have fun if he was suppressing himself so much. Why would he turn Super Saiyan only to suppress himself even MORE? He'd stay in base form and fight Gohan's Super Saiyan form for a more even fight. Your only argument here is an out-of-universe one, the crew thought that a Super Saiyan duel would look cool. There's no in-universe explanation, Goku may have been going easy but he wouldn't have transformed if Gohan and him weren't comparable.

Similarly, Krillin did so well against Goku and Gohan because he was a smart fighter that used different strategies to get around the fact that Gohan and Goku were stronger than him

And you're ignoring the fact that Kuririn still managed to smack Goku and Gohan around. He wouldn't have done that if his power wasn't comparable to theirs. Do you see Saiyan arc Kuririn pushing Freeza around because he's a "smart fighter with different strategies"? No. Every punch or Ki blast he'd throw would be effortlessly tanked. Kuririn's strategies were only effective because his power was already comparable to his opponents. He was weaker but not by a ton.

The narrative that you're (and everyone else, in an effort to *cough* "downplay") ignoring is that Kuririn FORCED Goku to turn Super Saiyan. If that isn't obvious, I don't know what is.

It might be easier to just view it with the mindset that power levels aren't being factored in at all

You're pretty much asking us to throw away everything we know about Dragon Ball to justify DBS' awful consistency.

Surviving sidra energy ball that had golden freeza panting to compress alone shits on anything from buu saga high tiers

[LowRyder2005]

Exactly trying to say base goku strength has been recton is ridiculous considering he...
traded blows with slim buu
Tanking an attack from piccolo
Surviving sidra energy ball til beerus came
Keeping up with golden freeza right before they powered up

There's evidence for both sides, but none of those feats prove that Goku's stronger than SS3 Gotenks. There's a long way to go from tanking Piccolo's attack to beating Gotenks.

For example, SS Gohan and SS Goku were fighting so evenly because they were having fun doing so and lost track of their surroundings, as the narrative showcased was Goku being bored and wanting someone to spar with.

And Goku wouldn't have fun if he was suppressing himself so much. Why would he turn Super Saiyan only to suppress himself even MORE? He'd stay in base form and fight Gohan's Super Saiyan form for a more even fight. Your only argument here is an out-of-universe one, the crew thought that a Super Saiyan duel would look cool. There's no in-universe explanation, Goku may have been going easy but he wouldn't have transformed if Gohan and him weren't comparable.

Similarly, Krillin did so well against Goku and Gohan because he was a smart fighter that used different strategies to get around the fact that Gohan and Goku were stronger than him

And you're ignoring the fact that Kuririn still managed to smack Goku and Gohan around. He wouldn't have done that if his power wasn't comparable to theirs. Do you see Saiyan arc Kuririn pushing Freeza around because he's a "smart fighter with different strategies"? No. Every punch or Ki blast he'd throw would be effortlessly tanked. Kuririn's strategies were only effective because his power was already comparable to his opponents. He was weaker but not by a ton.

The narrative that you're (and everyone else, in an effort to *cough* "downplay") ignoring is that Kuririn FORCED Goku to turn Super Saiyan. If that isn't obvious, I don't know what is.

It might be easier to just view it with the mindset that power levels aren't being factored in at all

You're pretty much asking us to throw away everything we know about Dragon Ball to justify DBS' awful consistency.

Surviving sidra energy ball that had golden freeza panting to compress alone shits on anything from buu saga high tiers

A fine contention. May I ask where your relation on how the aforementioned "destructive energy ball" factors into unequivocally determining one's power level is for us mortals? There might be enough for a PhD in fictional science.

[BlueBasilisk]

In the case of Goku vs. Tupper, Tupper was actively boosting his weight with the intention of dragging them both down through the arena. He's surrounded by a red aura when he's boosting his weight against Goku that disappears after 18 drives him off but not at any other point in the fight, which suggests he isn't as heavy after letting go of Goku as he is when they're grappling. There's also the fact that he's able to jump, move and turn into a wheel without sinking or cutting furrows into the arena anymore.

[LowRyder2005]

In the case of Goku vs. Tupper, Tupper was actively boosting his weight with the intention of dragging them both down through the arena. He's surrounded by a red aura when he's boosting his weight against Goku that disappears after 18 drives him off but not at any other point in the fight, which suggests he isn't as heavy after letting go of Goku as he is when they're grappling. There's also the fact that he's able to jump, move and turn into a wheel without sinking or cutting furrows into the arena anymore.

As far as we know it could also mean Tupper stops emitting light when he stops increasing his weight, just saying.

I don't think really your idea is that unreasonable, to be honest, but it would still bring forth some extra questionable writing: why would Tupper let himself be eliminated?
Let's admit he lowered his weight to actively attack the duo of Goku and #18, it can make sense. Then, what exactly would have stopped him from using the same weight which would easily crush #18, since it can crush the overwhelmingly stronger base Goku? If not when he jumps on her because, let's say, he's careless, when she lifts him and she's about to eliminate him? Is it supposed to be CIS on Tupper's part or something else?

Also, do note that the real cause of Tupper's elimination is that the super durable Kachi Katchin breaks right after he steps on the edge of the arena; the implication obviously being that Tupper is still weighing an awful lot (for comparison purposes, the Kachi Katchin started breaking long after Goku couldn't move with Tupper on his shoulders).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jna3UQoCik

[supercat]

Base Goku has already shown so many feats that strongly imply that he has far surpassed anything from the Buu saga.

-Being able to contend with Final Form Frieza.
-Fighting better against Monaka-Beerus than his SSJ3 incarnation had ever hoped to dream of back on King Kai's. Not to mention, this Beerus was apparently enjoying himself.
-Casually surviving a new and improved Piccolo's attack.
-Base Copy Vegeta utterly humiliating Gotenks, effortlessly might I add.
-Surviving Sidra's attack.

The Buu saga is really so far behind now, I don't see how people could even hold power levels from said time period so highly.

Based on power scaling and feats alone, Base Goku / Vegeta along with Final Form Frieza are at least several times stronger than SSJ Vegetto (Buu saga) and even far greater than the now fodder Buuhan. Then there's their SSJ forms, which should be 50x stronger than all of that.

SSB Goku = Golden Frieza > SSB Vegeta > Android 17 (mid SSB-tier) > / = Ultimate Gohan (low to mid SSB-tier) > Future Zamasu (low SSB-tier) >>>>>>> SSJ Goku >>>>>>> Base Goku > Final Form Frieza >>> SSJ Vegetto > / = First Form Frieza > Buuhan > Buutenks > Ultimate Gohan (Buu saga) > SSJ3 Gotenks > / = Super Buu >> Mr. Buu

Upper SSB-tier:
Jiren
SSB Goku
Golden Frieza
SSB Vegeta
Toppo
Full power Kale
Goku Black

Mid SSB-tier:
Hit
Android 17
Ultimate Gohan
Dyspo

Low SSB-tier:
Future Zamasu

Leagues above the Buu saga-tier:
SSJ3 Goku
SSJ2 Goku / Vegeta
Present Zamasu
SSJ2 Caulifla
SSJ Goku / Vegeta
Obuni
Final Form Frost
SSJ Caulifla
SSJ Cabba
Base Goku / Vegeta
Final Form Frieza

Slightly above the Buu saga:
First Form Frieza (could be close to SSJ Vegetto but stronger than Buuhan)
Piccolo (debatable)

No longer relevant:
Buuhan
Buutenks
Ultimate Gohan
SSJ3 Goku (Buu saga)
SSJ3 Gotenks
Kid Buu
Super Buu
Mr. Buu