"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[micah007]

Do you guys think the spirit bomb struggle will be kept in the manga? Seems crucial.

[Miracles]

I understand complaints about Toyo's fight choreography sometimes producing visually boring fights. So with that being said I really hope he brings his A game to the upcoming fights we'll see in the manga, especially Goku vs Jiren after the anime did a phenomenal job.

Goku vs Frost, Vegeta vs SS Black, and Goku vs Merged Zamasu was pretty good, so hopefully we have that kinda quality.

Those were well choreographed. Toyotaro has shown that he is capable.

Do you guys think the spirit bomb struggle will be kept in the manga? Seems crucial.

It was the trigger for Goku's "ultra instinct." However, Goku can even use "Hakai" in Full-power Blue. Don't know if it will be necessary.

[batistabus]

Do you guys think the spirit bomb struggle will be kept in the manga? Seems crucial.

I'm inclined to say yes because absorbing the Genki Dama seems to be a nod to what Goku did as a Super Saiyan God in his fight against Beerus.

...although, that wasn't depicted in Toyotaro's telling of Battle of Gods. Then again, neither was Beerus mentioning a person stronger than Goku (until it was added in as a bonus image in the tankobon).

[Miracles]

Do you guys think the spirit bomb struggle will be kept in the manga? Seems crucial.

I'm inclined to say yes because absorbing the Genki Dama seems to be a nod to what Goku did as a Super Saiyan God in his fight against Beerus.

...although, that wasn't depicted in Toyotaro's telling of Battle of Gods. Then again, neither was Beerus mentioning a person stronger than Goku (until it was added in as a bonus image in the tankobon).

Was that the only major difference in the tankobon?

[batistabus]

Do you guys think the spirit bomb struggle will be kept in the manga? Seems crucial.

I'm inclined to say yes because absorbing the Genki Dama seems to be a nod to what Goku did as a Super Saiyan God in his fight against Beerus.

...although, that wasn't depicted in Toyotaro's telling of Battle of Gods. Then again, neither was Beerus mentioning a person stronger than Goku (until it was added in as a bonus image in the tankobon).

Was that the only major difference in the tankobon?

In terms of foreshadowing done by Toriyama? The DBS manga didn't have Whis' bit from RoF about self-movement until Chapter 27, but Toyotaro did include it in Chapter 2 of his RoF promo manga.

If you're asking about tidbits form BoG specifically, a lot had to be cut. The other most important thing missing for me was Goku's speech about hating that he couldn't get to the level of God on his own.

[Analytical Delusion]

I'm inclined to say yes because absorbing the Genki Dama seems to be a nod to what Goku did as a Super Saiyan God in his fight against Beerus.

...although, that wasn't depicted in Toyotaro's telling of Battle of Gods. Then again, neither was Beerus mentioning a person stronger than Goku (until it was added in as a bonus image in the tankobon).

Was that the only major difference in the tankobon?

In terms of foreshadowing done by Toriyama? The DBS manga didn't have Whis' bit from RoF about self-movement until Chapter 27, but Toyotaro did include it in Chapter 2 of his RoF promo manga.

If you're asking about tidbits form BoG specifically, a lot had to be cut. The other most important thing missing for me was Goku's speech about hating that he couldn't get to the level of God on his own.

This has been said 1000x, but ugh, it's frustrating in retrospect that Toyotaro skipped the RoF arc. I'm very curious about how he would've written it. I guess he didn't start doing his own thing until the U6 arc, but I'm sure he would've had an interesting take.

[Miracles]

I'm inclined to say yes because absorbing the Genki Dama seems to be a nod to what Goku did as a Super Saiyan God in his fight against Beerus.

...although, that wasn't depicted in Toyotaro's telling of Battle of Gods. Then again, neither was Beerus mentioning a person stronger than Goku (until it was added in as a bonus image in the tankobon).

Was that the only major difference in the tankobon?

In terms of foreshadowing done by Toriyama? The DBS manga didn't have Whis' bit from RoF about self-movement until Chapter 27, but Toyotaro did include it in Chapter 2 of his RoF promo manga.

If you're asking about tidbits form BoG specifically, a lot had to be cut. The other most important thing missing for me was Goku's speech about hating that he couldn't get to the level of God on his own.

That's good. Then that bit from RoF is in the manga too then.
Thank you.

[OLKv3]

I'm inclined to say yes because absorbing the Genki Dama seems to be a nod to what Goku did as a Super Saiyan God in his fight against Beerus.

...although, that wasn't depicted in Toyotaro's telling of Battle of Gods. Then again, neither was Beerus mentioning a person stronger than Goku (until it was added in as a bonus image in the tankobon).

Was that the only major difference in the tankobon?

In terms of foreshadowing done by Toriyama? The DBS manga didn't have Whis' bit from RoF about self-movement until Chapter 27, but Toyotaro did include it in Chapter 2 of his RoF promo manga.

If you're asking about tidbits form BoG specifically, a lot had to be cut. The other most important thing missing for me was Goku's speech about hating that he couldn't get to the level of God on his own.

That was taken from the anime too. The anime even changed it enough to make him excited and happy during the fight, compared to how he acted in the movie. I hate that it was removed and changed, because it perfectly explained Goku's personality. He was happy to fight Beerus, but upset by how he needed help to reach the power

[Kanassa]

It was the trigger for Goku's "ultra instinct." However, Goku can even use "Hakai" in Full-power Blue. Don't know if it will be necessary.

What? Do you think the Grand Priest will rule that as 'technically' not killing?

[Whatever]

Was that the only major difference in the tankobon?

In terms of foreshadowing done by Toriyama? The DBS manga didn't have Whis' bit from RoF about self-movement until Chapter 27, but Toyotaro did include it in Chapter 2 of his RoF promo manga.

If you're asking about tidbits form BoG specifically, a lot had to be cut. The other most important thing missing for me was Goku's speech about hating that he couldn't get to the level of God on his own.

That was taken from the anime too. The anime even changed it enough to make him excited and happy during the fight, compared to how he acted in the movie. I hate that it was removed and changed, because it perfectly explained Goku's personality. He was happy to fight Beerus, but upset by how he needed help to reach the power

Well i think that was for the best,considering Goku uses the ssjg form in both versions of the story now,him being upset about a form that represents that he needed help and he is still using it,kinda ruins this aspect.

[TheMikado]

Do you guys think the spirit bomb struggle will be kept in the manga? Seems crucial.

I'm inclined to say yes because absorbing the Genki Dama seems to be a nod to what Goku did as a Super Saiyan God in his fight against Beerus.

...although, that wasn't depicted in Toyotaro's telling of Battle of Gods. Then again, neither was Beerus mentioning a person stronger than Goku (until it was added in as a bonus image in the tankobon).

Not sure, if it is in the manga then it will definitely not play out the same or have more information and likely play out differently.

[Pannaliciour]

That's not at all what I'm understanding. It says it just awakened his mastery of move without thinking. Not that he absorbed the power of the Spirit Bomb. Nothing is said that he's any stronger than before and the only way we know this is because hes able to tank Toppo and fight Jiren.

It was literally said that the Genki Dama restored his lost power, and the clash of his own power with the Genki Dama's power awakened even more dormant power. He didn't just gain faster reflexes, he also became stronger & closed the gap between him and Jiren.

No one said anything like that. We know exactly what moving without thinking consisted of when Whis first started talking about it. Now it seems to have been redefined into some kind of potential unlock in order to make Goku as “powerful” as Jiren. It’s been redefined as something else without them stating as such entirely for plot convenience.

How can people say he was not stronger? Goku kaioken him with a kick and didnt do anything to Jiren. Ultra instinct Goku knees Jiren in his belly and felt it really good! So upgrade in power? Hell yesss!

BTW felt strange that the Gods couldn't see the difference between Beerus and Champa in the manga. They are freaking gods!

[Miracles]

It was the trigger for Goku's "ultra instinct." However, Goku can even use "Hakai" in Full-power Blue. Don't know if it will be necessary.

What? Do you think the Grand Priest will rule that as 'technically' not killing?

Of course. My point is that I doubt "ultra instinct" will be achieved the same through the Spirit bomb since Goku was able to learn "Hakai" normally in the manga.

[batistabus]

Well i think that was for the best,considering Goku uses the ssjg form in both versions of the story now,him being upset about a form that represents that he needed help and he is still using it,kinda ruins this aspect.

But that's exactly what makes this moment so great! Goku hates that he couldn't obtain the power of a god on his own, but accepts that reality so that he can reach new heights. He puts aside his pride because his curiosity of what he might be capable of gets the better of him. This is one of the biggest moments of character growth in all of Super.

This is why I really dislike that Vegeta obtains god ki without the ritual in the anime. Not only does it detract from Goku's moment of growth, but it also negates a moment of growth for Vegeta. Also, if a mortal can just "learn" how to use the power of a god by trying really hard...what's so special about it?

[Lord Beerus]

Well i think that was for the best,considering Goku uses the ssjg form in both versions of the story now,him being upset about a form that represents that he needed help and he is still using it,kinda ruins this aspect.

But that's exactly what makes this moment so great! Goku hates that he couldn't obtain the power of a god on his own, but accepts that reality so that he can reach new heights. He puts aside his pride because his curiosity of what he might be capable of gets the better of him. This is one of the biggest moments of character growth in all of Super.

This is why I really dislike that Vegeta obtains god ki without the ritual in the anime. Not only does it detract from Goku's moment of growth, but it also negates a moment of growth for Vegeta. Also, if a mortal can just "learn" how to use the power of a god by trying really hard...what's so special about it?

I actually don't mind that Vegeta brute forced his way to obtaining the power of Super Saiyan God. It actually fits thematically with his character very well. He brute forced his way to becoming a Super Saiyan in the Android arc, despite the previously established notion of what was required to become a Super Saiyan pretty much disqualified Vegeta from attaining the form back on Namek.

We see that feature again in its most extreme and unconventional manner with Vegeta power exploding and spiking to whole new realm of strength where he pushed Beerus, a Hakaishin and God ki user, to use a fraction of power just hold him of and defeat him. So there were certainly breadcrumbs left in the anime that Vegeta had an incredible amount of hidden strength, that with the right tutelage and previous mindset he has had of pushing himself beyond his limits while training, he could obtain, sustain and build upon a power that could rival the highest Gods in the Dragon Ball universe. The point is definitively hammered home once again in the Future Trunks arc where Vegeta practically kills himself in the ROSAT for a day and become stronger than Super Saiyan Rose Goku Black.

Vegeta has always been about overworking himself so he can reach new levels of power. Sometimes it can have the effect he wants from it, but it can also have a negative effect on his progress. Which is something that Whis alludes to during Resurrection F when talk to Goku and Vegeta about their flaws in battle and why Vegeta is always one step behind Goku.

Of course, the trade with Vegeta brute forcing his way to the power of Super Saiyan God came at the cost of learning anything substantial about God ki. But, what can you do?

I also don't mind that mortal can obtain God ki through practice. I mean, Whis taught Beerus everything he knows, so there is every chance that include also learning how to tap into and utilize God ki. There's nothing fundamentally wrong with a mortal obtaining God ki, especially when it's taught from a person who is as well versed as Whis is.

[HeroR]

It was literally said that the Genki Dama restored his lost power, and the clash of his own power with the Genki Dama's power awakened even more dormant power. He didn't just gain faster reflexes, he also became stronger & closed the gap between him and Jiren.

No one said anything like that. We know exactly what moving without thinking consisted of when Whis first started talking about it. Now it seems to have been redefined into some kind of potential unlock in order to make Goku as “powerful” as Jiren. It’s been redefined as something else without them stating as such entirely for plot convenience.

How can people say he was not stronger? Goku kaioken him with a kick and didnt do anything to Jiren. Ultra instinct Goku knees Jiren in his belly and felt it really good! So upgrade in power? Hell yesss!

BTW felt strange that the Gods couldn't see the difference between Beerus and Champa in the manga. They are freaking gods!

It was also said by both Piccolo and 17 that Goku got faster and stronger. It was Gohan who first noted that there was more to it then just speed since Goku wasn't moving normally.

[Hawk9211]

Just confirming we wcan get spoilers as early as 16?

[TheMikado]

No one said anything like that. We know exactly what moving without thinking consisted of when Whis first started talking about it. Now it seems to have been redefined into some kind of potential unlock in order to make Goku as “powerful” as Jiren. It’s been redefined as something else without them stating as such entirely for plot convenience.

How can people say he was not stronger? Goku kaioken him with a kick and didnt do anything to Jiren. Ultra instinct Goku knees Jiren in his belly and felt it really good! So upgrade in power? Hell yesss!

BTW felt strange that the Gods couldn't see the difference between Beerus and Champa in the manga. They are freaking gods!

It was also said by both Piccolo and 17 that Goku got faster and stronger. It was Gohan who first noted that there was more to it then just speed since Goku wasn't moving normally.

I thought someone had said something about Goku's hits becoming more precise.

[HeroR]

I thought someone had said something about Goku's hits becoming more precise.

Piccolo said, exact quote from the episode:

"Even now, as he fights, he continues to evolve. With every block, he hits Jiren more quickly, sharply, and heavily".

Before then Piccolo and Gohan said this:

Piccolo: "It only grazed him, but Goku's attacks are now working! Even though he was no match as Blue before...."

Gohan: "Those movements... They're nothing like dad's usual movements. He's just not fast. I couldn't even sense him moving to attack at all."

Piccolo: "Yeah. It's the same when he dodges."

From 17:

"But, somehow Goku instantly overcame that overwhelming different in power."


Given all that, Goku got a giant power boost along with UI in which everyone noted that Goku's movements weren't natural. To me, this heavily hints that Goku got a new transformation that gave him access to UI and not that UI is the actual form since UI alone shouldn't have jacked Goku's strength like that and the characters themselves said that Goku is overall faster along with his uncanny movements.

[TheMikado]

I thought someone had said something about Goku's hits becoming more precise.

Piccolo said, exact quote from the episode:

"Even now, as he fights, he continues to evolve. With every block, he hits Jiren more quickly, sharply, and heavily".

Before then Piccolo and Gohan said this:

Piccolo: "It only grazed him, but Goku's attacks are now working! Even though he was no match as Blue before...."

Gohan: "Those movements... They're nothing like dad's usual movements. He's just not fast. I couldn't even sense him moving to attack at all."

Piccolo: "Yeah. It's the same when he dodges."

From 17:

"But, somehow Goku instantly overcame that overwhelming different in power."


Given all that, Goku got a giant power boost along with UI in which everyone noted that Goku's movements weren't natural. To me, this heavily hints that Goku got a new transformation that gave him access to UI and not that UI is the actual form since UI alone shouldn't have jacked Goku's strength like that and the characters themselves said that Goku is overall faster along with his uncanny movements.

Hmm, I actually see the opposite, because if that were the case everyone would be talking about how they can "feel" Goku's power increase now. There's nothing like that other than seeing that they are more effective. Like I've been saying I think the design of this "form" is to make Goku's hits more precise and precision based. Instead I feel like some of the writers got confused and seemed to border on it making him more powerful too. The word from word reads like they are surprised his attacks are working in his present state when even SSB wasn't enough.

Like I said, if he were more powerful someone, God or mortal depending on the ki, would have said something about it