"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[jplaya2023]

looks like liquor has nine tails. also it seems all the hakaishins are around the same level.

What since when? He has 3 from the looks of it, unless my theory he can grow more is true.

liquor is TOTO's ode to Kishi when kishi named one of the jinchurki's son goku.

so liquor is basically kyubbi in this story

[BlueVegerot]

So Velmoth stronger as he rest semi confirmed.

Meaning the anime makes sense and Jirem is above him

What? Nothing confirms Belmod is the strongest or one of the strongest GoDs if that is what you mean to say

[BlueBasilisk]

Great chapter again. Following the mediocre Future Trunks manga arc, Toyotaro has stepped it up for this arc. Particularly these past two chapters. The Gods of Destruction fight looked brutal and chaotic, and Goku vs Toppo was completely different. I still think the anime version of that fight is better, but this is pretty cool too.

And as for his homages, Toyotaro stole Super Vegeta's kick that he gave to Second Form Cell. He never disappoints when it comes to blatant manga homages. What will he copy for next week? Make your predictions! I'm guessing he copies Gohan's SS2 pose somehow.

People complained about the anime's Broly homages, but I'm almost scared to see what Toyotaro is going to do with Kale. He's a big Broly fan to boot.

[TheMikado]

Saw the new chapter and man does it actually FEEL like a battle royale! Where the anime feels like a series of one-on-one or team attack style fights this really feels like an every man for himself fight! If manga can replicate this for the ToP I'm super hyped. Goku cycling through his forms was great as always. It really gives you a sense of progression and understanding of power.

Also the ARROW THROUGH THE ARM! It was already crazy when Heles had the arrow pointed straight at Liquirs head but for him to block it by having it go straight through his arm is madness. Also Beerus bleeding? Speaking of Liquir his Anime self only has three tails and his official design has 2. Yet he has 9 here, nice touch of surrounding him and firing off blasts from them. But what gives with his design?

[TheMikado]

love the chapter and goku's ssj forms exhibition.

I hate the fact that toppo is stronger than all of goku's forms, which means he has to overcome him along with jiren.

Honestly toppo should've topped out around ssj3 goku level and ssj god goku should've destroyed him so him saying jiren is stronger than him makes sense.

Why do you hate that? It means that its more likely that Goku and co. won't be top dogs and getting 90% of the eliminations. They may actually have to work for a win.

[jplaya2023]

love the chapter and goku's ssj forms exhibition.

I hate the fact that toppo is stronger than all of goku's forms, which means he has to overcome him along with jiren.

Honestly toppo should've topped out around ssj3 goku level and ssj god goku should've destroyed him so him saying jiren is stronger than him makes sense.

Why do you hate that? It means that its more likely that Goku and co. won't be top dogs and getting 90% of the eliminations. They may actually have to work for a win.

if toppo is already stronger than goku, why introduce jiren as even stronger than toppo.

In the anime, you felt like goku with kaioken X 10 was stronger than jiren and was going to win.

Goku didn't land a hit the entire fight.

Also why didn't goku use perfect ssj blue (no aura showing) that would've been cool as well

[BlueBasilisk]

Speaking of Liquir his Anime self only has three tails and his official design has 2. Yet he has 9 here, nice touch of surrounding him and firing off blasts from them. But what gives with his design?

I'm wondering if the number of tails he has signifies how much power he's using? Fox spirits were said to grow more tails the older, wiser and stronger they got.

[OLKv3]

love the chapter and goku's ssj forms exhibition.

I hate the fact that toppo is stronger than all of goku's forms, which means he has to overcome him along with jiren.

Honestly toppo should've topped out around ssj3 goku level and ssj god goku should've destroyed him so him saying jiren is stronger than him makes sense.

Why do you hate that? It means that its more likely that Goku and co. won't be top dogs and getting 90% of the eliminations. They may actually have to work for a win.

if toppo is already stronger than goku, why introduce jiren as even stronger than toppo.

In the anime, you felt like goku with kaioken X 10 was stronger than jiren and was going to win.

Goku didn't land a hit the entire fight.

Also why didn't goku use perfect ssj blue (no aura showing) that would've been cool as well

If Raditz was stronger than Goku, why even introduce Vegeta and Nappa?
If the Androids were stronger than Goku, why even introduce Cell?

[jplaya2023]

Why do you hate that? It means that its more likely that Goku and co. won't be top dogs and getting 90% of the eliminations. They may actually have to work for a win.

if toppo is already stronger than goku, why introduce jiren as even stronger than toppo.

In the anime, you felt like goku with kaioken X 10 was stronger than jiren and was going to win.

Goku didn't land a hit the entire fight.

Also why didn't goku use perfect ssj blue (no aura showing) that would've been cool as well

If Raditz was stronger than Goku, why even introduce Vegeta and Nappa?
If the Androids were stronger than Goku, why even introduce Cell?

those were different arcs,
raditz was dealt with and vegeta and nappa came a year later and goku was able to train and get stronger

goku didn't fight the androids(Sans 19 before his heart virus) he just fought cell after training

my point is they usually don't have 2 villians stronger in the same arc like this, and also the circumstances are way different here at the TOP then the saiyan and android saga

[TheMikado]

Why do you hate that? It means that its more likely that Goku and co. won't be top dogs and getting 90% of the eliminations. They may actually have to work for a win.

if toppo is already stronger than goku, why introduce jiren as even stronger than toppo.

In the anime, you felt like goku with kaioken X 10 was stronger than jiren and was going to win.

Goku didn't land a hit the entire fight.

Also why didn't goku use perfect ssj blue (no aura showing) that would've been cool as well

If Raditz was stronger than Goku, why even introduce Vegeta and Nappa?
If the Androids were stronger than Goku, why even introduce Cell?

Exactly, I'm not really understanding the problem with having stronger characters. When the 12 universes were introduced and a Tournament of Power everyone was all excited because it would finally make sense for Goku to have strong enemies to fight. We get to the ToP and there's only one guy there stronger than Goku and he couldn't care less that Goku is even breathing in the anime. In the anime Goku's biggest challenge is trying not to hold back and play around too much or drop his guard. He's not even working hard to protect his other teammates. No one is a challenge to him and his only focus has really been fighting Jiren.. Even before the ToP is technically fully announced in the manga we know Goku is already in some deep crap. For all we know ALL the Pride Troopers could be above Goku or at least SSG level which makes this way harder for him and makes the desperation to get Frieza that much more reasonable.

[TheMikado]

those were different arcs,
raditz was dealt with and vegeta and nappa came a year later and goku was able to train and get stronger

goku didn't fight the androids(Sans 19 before his heart virus) he just fought cell after training

my point is they usually don't have 2 villians stronger in the same arc like this, and also the circumstances are way different here at the TOP then the saiyan and android saga

That's not true at all. Toriyama's actually style is to ALWAYS have power progression. It's the Super anime that's deviating from Toriyama's style.

Saiyan arc includes Raditz.

Raditz
Saibamen
Nappa
Vegeta
Oozaru Vegeta

Namek:
Friezamen
Frieza henchman. Zarbon, etc.
Ginyu force
Captain Ginyu
Frieza first form
2nd
3rd
4th
4th 50%
4th 100%

Android, including Cell:

19/20
17/18/16
Cell imperfect
Semi - Perfect Cell
Perfect Cell
Cell Juniors
Super Perfect Cell

Buu:
Babidi Henchmen
Dabura
Majin Vegeta
Buu
Butenks
Buuhan
kid Buu

Etc. The point I'm making is that there has always been preliminary rounds before the big fight with the final boss. Toriyama uses a stepping stone structure to his stories. He always has.

[OLKv3]

if toppo is already stronger than goku, why introduce jiren as even stronger than toppo.

In the anime, you felt like goku with kaioken X 10 was stronger than jiren and was going to win.

Goku didn't land a hit the entire fight.

Also why didn't goku use perfect ssj blue (no aura showing) that would've been cool as well

If Raditz was stronger than Goku, why even introduce Vegeta and Nappa?
If the Androids were stronger than Goku, why even introduce Cell?

those were different arcs,
raditz was dealt with and vegeta and nappa came a year later and goku was able to train and get stronger

goku didn't fight the androids(Sans 19 before his heart virus) he just fought cell after training

my point is they usually don't have 2 villians stronger in the same arc like this, and also the circumstances are way different here at the TOP then the saiyan and android saga

The point is to show that Goku's completely outclassed and in over his head. He's a big deal for Universe 7, but in the multiverse he's not in league with the big dogs. It creates the immediate threat and impending doom for Goku and co. How could they possibly win?!?

It's a different direction in the anime's take where they make you wonder if Jiren really is all that they say he is, and that he couldn't possibly be better than Goku, until he surprises you and wrecks havoc. The anime is far ahead so they go for the surprises and shock value. The manga is far behind so they can't go for that style since we all know the story, so they switch it up to dread

[LightBing]

What a great looking chapter, the Hakaishin royal rumble felt dire and chaotic. I hope Toyotarõ can keep it up later in the arc.

Obviously there's still dialogue to help understand the events but I would analyse the fight's with a grain of salt. We didn't see most of the royal rumble, we don't know what happened for sure, for example did Belmod pretend to be down after Liquiir attack or later? Seems like Beerus, Quitela and Belmod might be the 3 strongest or what Toyotarõ wants us to think.

About Goku vs Toppo, well they only had one exchange with Goku at full power. It's certain that Toppo is on the same level or else he wouldn't be able to knock him out, however this was clearly a show match for the most part and Goku fought in SSJ3 for the longest time out of all forms; a form know to be draining.

I predict that Toppo is equal/marginally stronger than Goku and this is all to hype him and consequently Jiren. Belmod being apparently fine at the royal rumble is also another way to hype Jiren up.

[BlueVegerot]

Toyotaro will just make Freeza and Vegeta far stronger than Goku. Would make sense imo. Freeza has been image training since he was killed and Vegeta consistently trained right until Bulma was about to give birth

[TheMikado]

If Raditz was stronger than Goku, why even introduce Vegeta and Nappa?
If the Androids were stronger than Goku, why even introduce Cell?

those were different arcs,
raditz was dealt with and vegeta and nappa came a year later and goku was able to train and get stronger

goku didn't fight the androids(Sans 19 before his heart virus) he just fought cell after training

my point is they usually don't have 2 villians stronger in the same arc like this, and also the circumstances are way different here at the TOP then the saiyan and android saga

The point is to show that Goku's completely outclassed and in over his head. He's a big deal for Universe 7, but in the multiverse he's not in league with the big dogs. It creates the immediate threat and impending doom for Goku and co. How could they possibly win?!?

It's a different direction in the anime's take where they make you wonder if Jiren really is all that they say he is, and that he couldn't possibly be better than Goku, until he surprises you and wrecks havoc. The anime is far ahead so they go for the surprises and shock value. The manga is far behind so they can't go for that style since we all know the story, so they switch it up to dread

Where did this theory come from? That doesn't make sense. They attempted to show Jiren's power multiple times in the anime. The hyped him up to heck, never once implying he wasn't the big star that all the marketing made him out to be. The even specifically showed him take out Kale easily after Goku took his beat down from her. The problem is they botched Goku's power scaling so hard so that when he was getting beat down by Kale everyone made up head canon that he was holding back below SSJ levels, so when Jiren took her out where Goku didn't the execution fell flat. Because audience didn't think Goku was outclassed by Kale in the first place. That's the problem. The anime attempted to do a similar thing with Kale to show how much stronger Jiren was and it failed. It has nothing to do with planning shock. Their execution of the same style of reveals was just so bad it literally meant nothing at all.

[Whatever]

those were different arcs,
raditz was dealt with and vegeta and nappa came a year later and goku was able to train and get stronger

goku didn't fight the androids(Sans 19 before his heart virus) he just fought cell after training

my point is they usually don't have 2 villians stronger in the same arc like this, and also the circumstances are way different here at the TOP then the saiyan and android saga

That's not true at all. Toriyama's actually style is to ALWAYS have power progression. It's the Super anime that's deviating from Toriyama's style.

Saiyan arc includes Raditz.

Raditz
Saibamen
Nappa
Vegeta
Oozaru Vegeta

Namek:
Friezamen
Frieza henchman. Zarbon, etc.
Ginyu force
Captain Ginyu
Frieza first form
2nd
3rd
4th
4th 50%
4th 100%

Android, including Cell:

19/20
17/18/16
Cell imperfect
Semi - Perfect Cell
Perfect Cell
Cell Juniors
Super Perfect Cell

Buu:
Babidi Henchmen
Dabura
Majin Vegeta
Buu
Butenks
Buuhan
kid Buu

Etc. The point I'm making is that there has always been preliminary rounds before the big fight with the final boss. Toriyama uses a stepping stone structure to his stories. He always has.

You know its pretty funny you say that when Toyotaro made almost every antagonists be chumps so far while the anime did the opposite.
Especially when you remember how pathetic manga Hit,Black and Merged Zamasu were.
You also must be a physic because you can tell teamwork will matter and that Goku won't run solo for some reason.

[jplaya2023]

if toppo is already stronger than goku, why introduce jiren as even stronger than toppo.

In the anime, you felt like goku with kaioken X 10 was stronger than jiren and was going to win.

Goku didn't land a hit the entire fight.

Also why didn't goku use perfect ssj blue (no aura showing) that would've been cool as well

If Raditz was stronger than Goku, why even introduce Vegeta and Nappa?
If the Androids were stronger than Goku, why even introduce Cell?

Exactly, I'm not really understanding the problem with having stronger characters. When the 12 universes were introduced and a Tournament of Power everyone was all excited because it would finally make sense for Goku to have strong enemies to fight. We get to the ToP and there's only one guy there stronger than Goku and he couldn't care less that Goku is even breathing in the anime. In the anime Goku's biggest challenge is trying not to hold back and play around too much or drop his guard. He's not even working hard to protect his other teammates. No one is a challenge to him and his only focus has really been fighting Jiren.. Even before the ToP is technically fully announced in the manga we know Goku is already in some deep crap. For all we know ALL the Pride Troopers could be above Goku or at least SSG level which makes this way harder for him and makes the desperation to get Frieza that much more reasonable.

I don't like it simply for the fact goku and others have been training non stop these last 20-30 years (DBZ years) and out of no where chars (not GOD's) are all of a sudden stronger without an ounce of training (that we know of or shown). It's been said saiyans are the strongest race in the universe and they seem to be surpassed like their nothing.

[Kanassa]

I like how reminiscent the Toppo fight here is to the Beerus fight back in Battle of Gods.

[HeroR]

I like how reminiscent the Toppo fight here is to the Beerus fight back in Battle of Gods.

Or Jiren because of the anime.

[Boo Machine]

I don't like it simply for the fact goku and others have been training non stop these last 20-30 years (DBZ years) and out of no where chars (not GOD's) are all of a sudden stronger without an ounce of training (that we know of or shown). It's been said saiyans are the strongest race in the universe and they seem to be surpassed like their nothing.

We don't need to see a characters training for them to be stronger. Especially if they're new characters. That would be silly. And I can't remember if anyone actually says Saiyans are the strongest in the Universe. I think Vegeta might have said it, but he is Vegeta, he tends to boast.

But even if someone did say it we have been constantly shown since early Z, that isn't the case. Freeza and his minons are stronger than most Saiyans. Some evil Scientist in a lab was capable of building beings stronger than saiyans. And in the Buu arc we got introduced to a few different races that dwarf the saiyans. Especially if you count the filler.

And even IF the saiyans were the strongest in the Universe, there is a multiverse now. Being the strongest in their universe doesn't make them the strongest in all universes.