Dragonball Z: Saiyan Saga - Help make this happen!

[TheDevilsCorpse]

The difference being that Abridged is a parody. They can get away with selling merchandise based on the jokes, just like shows like MAD, Family Guy and South Park can sell their DVDs despite all the references. Don't expect a DVD release or anything though, since it's made up of 99% of the original animation.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Now that you think about it, isn't Team Four Star profiting from DBZ:A? I mean, they are selling merchandise that clearly has copyrighted characters and phrases from the show and they're getting away with it. Plus, they use it for the show. So it isn't non-profit at all!

I think I did bring this subject up once but it was ignored. I think they even were selling a shirt that had a Yoshi on it in reference to the Piccolo=Yoshi line from episode 2. Seriously, that's bad. I think that is worse than what these guys are doing in breaking the law and TFS is in the USA!

Stop talking, this guy will report them too!!!

[Jackal puFF]

Now that you think about it, isn't Team Four Star profiting from DBZ:A? I mean, they are selling merchandise that clearly has copyrighted characters and phrases from the show and they're getting away with it. Plus, they use it for the show. So it isn't non-profit at all!

I think I did bring this subject up once but it was ignored. I think they even were selling a shirt that had a Yoshi on it in reference to the Piccolo=Yoshi line from episode 2. Seriously, that's bad. I think that is worse than what these guys are doing in breaking the law and TFS is in the USA!

Stop talking, this guy will report them too!!!

I'd be mighty mad if Teamfourstar gets taken down again.. But knowing them they'll come back like Krillin always does =D

[Pafupafu]

Now that you think about it, isn't Team Four Star profiting from DBZ:A? I mean, they are selling merchandise that clearly has copyrighted characters and phrases from the show and they're getting away with it. Plus, they use it for the show. So it isn't non-profit at all!

I think I did bring this subject up once but it was ignored. I think they even were selling a shirt that had a Yoshi on it in reference to the Piccolo=Yoshi line from episode 2. Seriously, that's bad. I think that is worse than what these guys are doing in breaking the law and TFS is in the USA!

Stop talking, this guy will report them too!!!

Your childish comments aren't appreciated. I did not report any one. Get your facts straight. These dudes broke a bunch of laws, if you want to support them then what does that make you? Point made.

[Pafupafu]

The difference being that Abridged is a parody. They can get away with selling merchandise based on the jokes, just like shows like MAD, Family Guy and South Park can sell their DVDs despite all the references. Don't expect a DVD release or anything though, since it's made up of 99% of the original animation.

The "Parody" genre only covers their copyright issues to a certain extent. The merchandising, if it hits a mass market, can potential be an infringement as it uses Animation/Art owned by FUNi/Toei.

Abridged is its own separate case. Thankfully they didn't request fans of the series to pay $15,000 to make it in the first place.

[Nex Carnifex]

The difference being that Abridged is a parody. They can get away with selling merchandise based on the jokes, just like shows like MAD, Family Guy and South Park can sell their DVDs despite all the references. Don't expect a DVD release or anything though, since it's made up of 99% of the original animation.

Are these guys planning on a dvd release of their trailer? TFS are making money off of animation that isn't theirs, characters that aren't theirs. All these guys are doing is making a cut up trailer with people representing the characters, that's not even half as bad.

[Pafupafu]

The difference being that Abridged is a parody. They can get away with selling merchandise based on the jokes, just like shows like MAD, Family Guy and South Park can sell their DVDs despite all the references. Don't expect a DVD release or anything though, since it's made up of 99% of the original animation.

Are these guys planning on a dvd release of their trailer? TFS are making money off of animation that isn't theirs, characters that aren't theirs. All these guys are doing is making a cut up trailer with people representing the characters, that's not even half as bad.

TFS isn't making $15,000+ publicly. They are also a parody. This trailer project is NOT a parody, infringing copyright law. The project also publicly generated profit/revenue = Hire Lawyers pronto.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

The "Parody" genre only covers their copyright issues to a certain extent. The merchandising, if it hits a mass market, can potential be an infringement as it uses Animation/Art owned by FUNi/Toei.

Yeah, but the merchandise they sell generally doesn't use anything of the sort. They draw their own images based off the parody, most hardly recognizable as being related to the DB franchise based off the design:


Really isn't any different than the Senzu shirt people were more than willing to buy. lol

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Your childish comments aren't appreciated. I did not report any one. Get your facts straight.

Yeah, right.

Response from IndieGoGo:

GogoSandy, May 14 19:55 (PDT):
Hi ****,

Thanks for your note. This has been brought to our attention multiple times and we have asked the campaign owner to remove the images on their campaign and/or provide a statement or documentation that they have the right to post the content. Thank you for sharing this with us.


Cheers,
Sandy
--
Company: Indiegogo - http://www.indiegogo.com
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Customer Happiness Hour! Dial-In Every Friday at 12:00pm PT 213-342-3000 pwd: 837745

You can say that you did this to protect IndieGoGo, but according to this:

I could very well see FUNimation attacking IndieGoGo more so than the actual Producers. However, IndieGoGo's policies clearly state that any user is solely responsible for adhering to the laws of the DMCA. The situation will more than likely unfold like so:

1. Producers release Saiyan Saga trailer (if not court ordered to cease production before hand)
2. After profit peaks, FUNimation moves in and shuts down the trailer's existence on profitable websites/distribution markets
3. FUNimation prepares cases for Producers and IndieGoGo, gathering all records of profit and monetary loss
4. IndieGoGo, with clear DMCA laws is not liable for any monetary loss by FUNimation.
5. FUNimation sues Producers for all recorded profit based on usage of Brand Name "Dragon Ball".
6. IndieGoGo sues Producers for misuse of policies and terms and FUNimation court fees.
7. Settlement results in Producers owing $16,000 to both IndieGoGo AND FUNimation plus damages (double-violation, possibly 2 cases)
8. Settlement also results in Producers owing all recorded profit from Project Release/Distribution to FUNimation plus damages

... they will be fine.

These dudes broke a bunch of laws, if you want to support them then what does that make you? Point made.

I didn't/won't give them a penny. If you don't like what they are doing, illegal or not, then don't donate and don't watch it. Toei & FUNimation will sue them if they want, it's their job. And it's not like Toriyama, or any head of Shueisha, Toei or FUNi will get hungry because of this. And you won't be affected by it at all. The producers that are making this are big kids, they should know what they are doing. If they don't, that's too bad for them. That's how life is.

[SSJSteve]

The difference being that Abridged is a parody.

So, as mentioned by Pafupafu, what about them increasing their profile, which obviously Dragon Ball Z Abridged has done for them? Does that not count because the show is only a parody?

[gohan2k]

Unless I'm mistaken they're not going to profit financially from this trailer at all. They're definitely not selling the DVD (on the Indie GoGo page it mentioned that if only for people who donated over a certain amount would get a DVD of the making of the film but that was it).

The only way they're gonna distribute it it on YouTube and a playing at a convention (again, according to their site).

Financially it's only costing them money. You could argue otherwise about money gained from publicity they may or may not receive. Legally they can't profit off the YouTube video.

This isn't really different from one of the many other fan films for Lord of the Rings, Star Wars etc aside from the fact they used some funding from the public, which is where some have issues.

As this is the first big Dragonball fan film it's difficult to say what the copyright holders will say. Some give permission as long as they're not profiting (such as Lucasfilm, Warner Brothers/DC Comics and Paramount) while others refuse to allow fan films (MGM & James Bond and apparently Fox shut down a Max Payne fan film).

I hope they allow the film. Publicity of your brand can only be a good thing, and I hope that if nothing else, it inspires them to put some decent effort into a new film after seeing how much it's what the fans want - after the poor box office they probably doubt there's an audince...but actually there is an audience - they just won't except your crappy excuses for a Dragonball film *cough* Evolution *cough*.

[Pafupafu]

Unless I'm mistaken they're not going to profit financially from this trailer at all. They're definitely not selling the DVD (on the Indie GoGo page it mentioned that if only for people who donated over a certain amount would get a DVD of the making of the film but that was it).

The only way they're gonna distribute it it on YouTube and a playing at a convention (again, according to their site).

Financially it's only costing them money. You could argue otherwise about money gained from publicity they may or may not receive. Legally they can't profit off the YouTube video.

This isn't really different from one of the many other fan films for Lord of the Rings, Star Wars etc aside from the fact they used some funding from the public, which is where some have issues.

As this is the first big Dragonball fan film it's difficult to say what the copyright holders will say. Some give permission as long as they're not profiting (such as Lucasfilm, Warner Brothers/DC Comics and Paramount) while others refuse to allow fan films (MGM & James Bond and apparently Fox shut down a Max Payne fan film).

I hope they allow the film. Publicity of your brand can only be a good thing, and I hope that if nothing else, it inspires them to put some decent effort into a new film after seeing how much it's what the fans want - after the poor box office they probably doubt there's an audince...but actually there is an audience - they just won't except your crappy excuses for a Dragonball film *cough* Evolution *cough*.

Unless they document ALL of their purchases/expenses from the initial donation ($15,000+), any funds unaccounted for will be viewed as profitable income in the court of law.

[Pafupafu]

Your childish comments aren't appreciated. I did not report any one. Get your facts straight.

Yeah, right.

Response from IndieGoGo:

GogoSandy, May 14 19:55 (PDT):
Hi ****,

Thanks for your note. This has been brought to our attention multiple times and we have asked the campaign owner to remove the images on their campaign and/or provide a statement or documentation that they have the right to post the content. Thank you for sharing this with us.


Cheers,
Sandy
--
Company: Indiegogo - http://www.indiegogo.com
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/indiegogo
Blog: http://www.indiegogo.com/blog
Help Center: http://support.indiegogo.com/forums
Customer Happiness Hour! Dial-In Every Friday at 12:00pm PT 213-342-3000 pwd: 837745

You can say that you did this to protect IndieGoGo, but according to this:

I could very well see FUNimation attacking IndieGoGo more so than the actual Producers. However, IndieGoGo's policies clearly state that any user is solely responsible for adhering to the laws of the DMCA. The situation will more than likely unfold like so:

1. Producers release Saiyan Saga trailer (if not court ordered to cease production before hand)
2. After profit peaks, FUNimation moves in and shuts down the trailer's existence on profitable websites/distribution markets
3. FUNimation prepares cases for Producers and IndieGoGo, gathering all records of profit and monetary loss
4. IndieGoGo, with clear DMCA laws is not liable for any monetary loss by FUNimation.
5. FUNimation sues Producers for all recorded profit based on usage of Brand Name "Dragon Ball".
6. IndieGoGo sues Producers for misuse of policies and terms and FUNimation court fees.
7. Settlement results in Producers owing $16,000 to both IndieGoGo AND FUNimation plus damages (double-violation, possibly 2 cases)
8. Settlement also results in Producers owing all recorded profit from Project Release/Distribution to FUNimation plus damages

... they will be fine.

These dudes broke a bunch of laws, if you want to support them then what does that make you? Point made.

I didn't/won't give them a penny. If you don't like what they are doing, illegal or not, then don't donate and don't watch it. Toei & FUNimation will sue them if they want, it's their job. And it's not like Toriyama, or any head of Shueisha, Toei or FUNi will get hungry because of this. And you won't be affected by it at all. The producers that are making this are big kids, they should know what they are doing. If they don't, that's too bad for them. That's how life is.

I had informed IndieGoGo, NOT FUNimation or any law official, of this misuse. Clearly I was not the only one. Independent Filmmakers look out for IndieGoGo because its very nature is controversial. I never said IndieGoGo will be fine. I clearly gave my best opinion, based upon the fact that I deal in this department EVERY day, of what the likely outcome will be if this is not settled out of court. Yes, financially, IndieGoGo will more than likely go unscathed, however this account of misuse will more than likely lead to MORE misuse. It will clearly bring attention to IndieGoGo's policies and could potentially result in additional court cases from any other misuse in the past or future by other copyright holders. Snowball effect. Basically, these Producers have publicly had success in gaining a large amount of funds (for a Fan-Trailer) so essentially anyone who wants $15,000+ in donations can use a Brand Name and create Fan-Trailers as a profitable business. It would render IndieGoGo defunct as a legal funding tool.

I whole-heartedly agree that these Producers are "Big Kids" and will be held 100% accountable for their actions. As I said before, I work with Copyright Infringement breaches and cases ALL the time. It seemed appropriate for me to voice my opinion and share some knowledge on the subject and it has led to some insightful conversation.

Where I do disagree is that the Copyright Holders will not go "hungry" over this. Obviously, they are large and successful companies but that does not mean they aren't entitled to 100% of what they own. Most major companies with international brands have divisions devoted strictly to copyright infringement cases. This is obviously their job to handle and I am sure they are already aware of this. A case of $15,000+ of copyright misuse, though not much by their standards, is just enough to grab their attention. But like I have mentioned previously, it is in the best interest of the affected parties to "wait it out" and let the Producers dig an even bigger hole before opening any cases. That's how a lot of businesses get their money actually, that and piracy cases. My best advice to anyone seeking to view this Trailer is to NOT DOWNLOAD IT. Any documented download can be used in court against the downloader.

There was a case in which the distributors of the movie "The Expendables" sought to sue every illegal downloader of the film, pre and post release. The case was dropped because the judge can only hold cases of downloaders in his own jurisdiction. They are now holding individual cases for EACH downloader in EACH jurisdiction. Companies will go a long way to get their entitled funds returned so I suggest everyone be careful, not just in this smaller case of a Bootleg Trailer.

[dbboxkaifan]

If they used Super Space Warriors Invade Earth!! no Dragon Ball fan would've noticed (I suppose) so I guess they went to Dragon Ball Z: Saiyan Saga not thinking about the copyright issues.

[Super Sayian Prime]

Pafupafu, is there any reason why you care so much? Fox, Shueshia, Toei, and whomever else it may concern have the money to defend themselves if they feel this hurts their products. You don't need to defend them.

[Beji]

Pafupafu, is there any reason why you care so much? Fox, Shueshia, Toei, and whomever else it may concern have the money to defend themselves if they feel this hurts their products. You don't need to defend them.

Eh I don't think that needs to be addressed. He said in other posts "I have met hundreds of independent filmmakers who have used IndieGoGo and the project K&K has listed is compromising the integrity of a useful tool" and he doesn't like the name thrown on "Dragon Ball" is used as the reason the money is thrown at them.

It would almost be like asking why people wold defend things they are passionate about

[MCDaveG]

I don't see any trouble with it, the people willingly paid them to have their own trailer.

[Michelle91]

I haven't been up to date with this project but are they still working on it? I hear some copyright issues got in the way from having this happening?

[Attitudefan]

The difference being that Abridged is a parody.

So, as mentioned by Pafupafu, what about them increasing their profile, which obviously Dragon Ball Z Abridged has done for them? Does that not count because the show is only a parody?

That's the point I am trying to make! They are making a profit on a so-called non-profit parody! The senzu shirt is technically illegal to sell. Maybe not the Yoshi one as it is a mix of Yoshi/Piccolo but it's close to borderline infringement. What TFS is doing is illegal. They are profiting from the lines and trademarks from their parody.

[SparkyPantsMcGee]

Not really. The merchandise is their own and they are making no money off of Dragonball itself but their own creative designs and jokes. What they do is legal...to an extent. Notice how most of the designs fail to show Dragonball characters;and the ones that do have them distorted somehow. What they do is no different from an artist selling his drawings of Batman and Green Lantern in artist alley at conventions. Their is a limit though(fanart can't exceed 15% or something like that). They clearly have Funimation's blessing in either case, seeing as how some actors have lent their voices to the show. They would be in murky water if they tried to sell the show however; but they don't so it's all good.