Has TFS damaged the reputation of the franchise in the U.S.?

[Doctor.]

As far as how funny we are, that's objective; but we do have a huge audience that enjoys us.

Don't you mean subjective?

I feel like ABED is trying to say that, compared to professionals, you can't act. And while I personally think you guys have the best fandub around, and won't go as far as to say you can't act completely, it's true that compared to professionals, your work isn't as nearly as well acted. Not to say that's a bad thing though, it's perfectly okay and to be expected.

[Gyt Kaliba]

Like, I've never seen a fan production with lazier writing, save for that one early DBZA that was like WELL HER NAME IS SNAKE. I BET SHE SOUNDS LIKE SOLID SNAKE. JOKEZ.

Er...how exactly is that lazy writing? I found it pretty funny and a rather clever and unexpected reference myself. I mean yeah, the joke hinges on the fact that they're both named Snake, but before that I never equated the characters, at all. I can see how it wouldn't amuse everyone the way it amused me, but I fail to see how that alone makes it lazy in any way.

[ABED]

I'd like to go out of my way to say that, yes. We can act. As far as how funny we are, that's subjective; but we do have a huge audience that enjoys us.

We've put six years of incredibly hard work into improving everything about this series, including our own personal abilities. I'm not nearly the best actor in the show, but I work amongst some fantastic actors and actresses and, frankly, this is one of the only times I'll go out of my way to openly defend ourselves in the face of critique. Plenty of us are getting professional work and are being recognized more and more as legitimate voice actors.

If you don't like our series, fine. But we can sure as hell act.

I'm happy you found work. I'm not actively rooting against you doing what you enjoy and being successful. However, my critique from the work I've seen is that I don't think the performances are good, even for a parody. I don't laugh, and I'm well aware that humor is subjective, and I don't find it funny.

I feel like ABED is trying to say that, compared to professionals, you can't act. And while I personally think you guys have the best fandub around,

Not even that. I flat out don't think they're good actors based on what I've seen. I wouldn't even call this a fandub since they aren't dubbing the show, they are creating their own show.

[KaiserNeko]

As far as how funny we are, that's objective; but we do have a huge audience that enjoys us.

Don't you mean subjective?

I feel like A BED is trying to say that, compared to professionals, you can't act. And while I personally think you guys have the best fandub around, and won't go as far as to say you can't act completely, it's true that compared to professionals, your work isn't as nearly as well acted. Not to say that's a bad thing though, it's perfectly okay and to be expected.

I'd like to point out that, at this point, over half our cast has been cast professionally in several different productions.

Look: I get it, we all started out as comedy fandubbers. But if you just completely ignore the SIX YEARS OF GROWTH that has come from this undertaking, as well as the accomplishments professionally that over half of the team has made, then this idea that we're aren't worthy of working wit the professionals is biased and flat out false. No, we're not as good as the veterans in prelay, no where near. No, we're not as good as plenty of the veterans of Funimation or Viz, etc. But the team I work with is packed with fantastic actors and actresses who are always laying new ground.

My point? Professionals are acknowledging us. That counts for more than a little.

[ImmaDeker]

Acting doesn't happen in a vacuum. They have scripts and directing to work with as well. And frankly, as much as DBZA is the best Abridged series around, that's like saying you're really great at watercolors when compared to a group of fingerpainters. It's technically accurate, but you're still making a parody dub on the internet with amusing scripts that probably aren't going to feel very witty on a rewatch, especially if you've been watching from the beginning and have gotten older along with the production. Hell, their movie dubs aren't even that old and after I'd watched them back to back with a friend, they're already hackneyed once you compare their writing back to back and see how little those seem to actually grow.

That's because everyone on its growing as they do it and its a learning process. But you can't expect to assess the entirety of someone's acting talent when they're being directed to work off a script that's a parody of an iconic character in pop culture. You can't really say "this person is a good/bad" actor if your major frame of reference is their imitations of parody versions of things you recognized because that's a biased sampling that goes against what your brain knows the characters to be.

Presumably, they earn professional voice acting work because you CAN see glimpses of advantageous resources in their performances that a director could apply to one of many different projects. I know if I were a casting director, aspects of their voices or how they interpret the voices in the context given (a parody of an iconic character) would give me thoughts as to how to apply them. Acting isn't just how well you do a performance. It's very much how you adapt to a set of circumstances and contexts to bring out a performance.

They tend to be pretty solid at that, even if little else tends to hold up.

[ABED]

As far as how funny we are, that's objective; but we do have a huge audience that enjoys us.

Don't you mean subjective?

I feel like A BED is trying to say that, compared to professionals, you can't act. And while I personally think you guys have the best fandub around, and won't go as far as to say you can't act completely, it's true that compared to professionals, your work isn't as nearly as well acted. Not to say that's a bad thing though, it's perfectly okay and to be expected.

I'd like to point out that, at this point, over half our cast has been cast professionally in several different productions.

I'm happy you found work, and maybe I'm wrong that you're bad actors, so I should make it more specific, I don't find the performances in abridged to be good. Since that's the only work I've seen, that's all I can base it on.

[funrush]

Damaged? No, I actually think it strengthened the franchise. I've had friends with very little familiarity to DBZ at all get semi-into the series just because of TFS. I don't know where this notion of it "damaging" franchise reputation comes from.

[ImmaDeker]

Er...how exactly is that lazy writing? I found it pretty funny and a rather clever and unexpected reference myself. I mean yeah, the joke hinges on the fact that they're both named Snake, but before that I never equated the characters, at all.

Because there's nothing to equate them except their names and "Hey look, we mentioned Metal Gear, nerds!" is the laziest, basest way of getting a response from someone and isn't an actual joke or punchline. There's likely a distinct reason you don't see any jokes like that in DBZA anymore: because they grew out of it.

Not that their writing is perfect (Episode of Bardock is violently unwatchable and painfully "fanboy meta humor FOURTH WALL XDDDD" and "POP CULTUREEEE" and their movie dubs tend to recycle jokes about recycling plots, which is either really lazy writing or ineffectively, boringly meta), but the sheer level of improvement tends to be impressive and if nothing else, DBZA is a really interesting watch if you want to see exactly how a group of creatives grow.

But the acting tends to be what holds up the most. The writing, even at its best, is really only passingly amusing. That's not an insult for a parody dub, though, or isn't in my mind. They do work that tends to entertain me and my friends and that's what their work is there to do, so.

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

I can't fathom why people like it. It's so crude.

Neither can I, I used to be into it when it was mocking the dub of the original using humour from the show itself but when they started to add in outsourced jokes that have nothing at all to do with the series they're poking at. It just felt like a shameless vehicle for their own sense of humour to be masked over the Z characters and their personalities grew completely warped thanks to it. Yugioh Abridged suffers the same problem.. When the jokes were less about the series after a while and more about thinks the writters thought was funny turned it into a different show. I cant see whats funny about the parody if its not parodying the show I'm familar with watching. They just get the DBZ logo for views now.

I can't fathom why people like it. It's so crude.

Some people like crude things. Just look at the success of Family Guy, South Park, even The Simpsons to some degree. Or for a live action example, Two and a Half Men.

First of all, youre right people like various things of the manner but it doesnt mean these shows are good. Except for the genius south park all the other shows are terrible and rely to heavy on it. Two-& A Half men is probably the worst written show on the list next to modern simpsons. Crude humour is the code for dumbing down society and brainless movies like Sex-Tape and 21 is the reflection of that. Community is brilliantly written to me, because it doesnt mock social culture by perpetuating stereotypes as a life style, but rather makes commentary on how stupid a lot of it is. Though this may be off-topic. In relation to TFS, it would take more intelligence to mock the series they are actually showing rather than exploiting it just to parrot irrelevant pop-culture.

It hasn't damaged it at all. If anything, it's helped. I've been able to turn one of my close friends, as well as my girlfriend, into fans of the series because of the Abridged series.

But then their source of reference of the series comes from an inaccurate portrayal of it in the TFS version. I've had people comparing it to the original and giving the original flack for not being like the TFS version. Whats supposed to be funny about the series wont be funny from Toriyama's view but on our bastardized misinterpretation of it.

[coola]

If that is off-topiic, then sorry, but, i've been wondering, with voice actors/actresses are familiar with Abridged series? It was shown to Scott McNeil, Kyle Hebert, Kara Edwards and Brad Swaile and Kara Edwards, and they seem to really enjoy it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jt3n4tpHLbU

[Gyt Kaliba]

I can't fathom why people like it. It's so crude.

Some people like crude things. Just look at the success of Family Guy, South Park, even The Simpsons to some degree. Or for a live action example, Two and a Half Men.

First of all, youre right people like various things of the manner but it doesnt mean these shows are good. Except for the genius south park all the other shows are terrible and rely to heavy on it. Two-& A Half men is probably the worst written show on the list next to modern simpsons. Crude humour is the code for dumbing down society and brainless movies like Sex-Tape and 21 is the reflection of that. Community is brilliantly written to me, because it doesnt mock social culture by perpetuating stereotypes as a life style, but rather makes commentary on how stupid a lot of it is. Though this may be off-topic. In relation to TFS, it would take more intelligence to mock the series they are actually showing rather than exploiting it just to parrot irrelevant pop-culture.

That's the thing though, is that all of this can be a matter of opinion. I for one (and please don't take this as an attack on your enjoying it, because it's not meant in that vein at all), would never call South Park 'genius'. I've enjoyed early Family Guy stuff, still find some enjoyment in American Dad on occasion, and think that Cleveland Show - despite my early distaste for the idea of it as I never used to enjoy the character - never really got the attention that it deserved. South Park though? I've never been able to get into it, which I do find to be a little 'too far' in terms of crudeness for the sake of crudeness's sake, for my own tastes. For what it's worth, I'd say the truly most 'mature' of the 'adult' cartoons was King of the Hill.

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

I've watched the first episode and half of the second as well as a handful of clips

Hardly a good way to judge an entire series, especially when they undoubtedly have gotten better.

Well I got real tired of hearing the "Ghost Nappa" joke and the "Vegeta, look - its a pokemon" joke used over and over. Forcing memes doesnt make them memes. I've watched better parodies that actually mock the series based on actual fan perceptions like a parody should be. TFS stopped that ethic a long time ago.

First of all, youre right people like various things of the manner but it doesnt mean these shows are good. Except for the genius south park all the other shows are terrible and rely to heavy on it. Two-& A Half men is probably the worst written show on the list next to modern simpsons. Crude humour is the code for dumbing down society and brainless movies like Sex-Tape and 21 is the reflection of that. Community is brilliantly written to me, because it doesnt mock social culture by perpetuating stereotypes as a life style, but rather makes commentary on how stupid a lot of it is. Though this may be off-topic. In relation to TFS, it would take more intelligence to mock the series they are actually showing rather than exploiting it just to parrot irrelevant pop-culture.

That's the thing though, is that all of this can be a matter of opinion. I for one (and please don't take this as an attack on your enjoying it, because it's not meant in that vein at all), would never call South Park 'genius'. I've enjoyed early Family Guy stuff, still find some enjoyment in American Dad on occasion, and think that Cleveland Show - despite my early distaste for the idea of it as I never used to enjoy the character - never really got the attention that it deserved. South Park though? I've never been able to get into it, which I do find to be a little 'too far' in terms of crudeness for the sake of crudeness's sake, for my own tastes. For what it's worth, I'd say the truly most 'mature' of the 'adult' cartoons was King of the Hill.[/quote]
I'd agree with you that some realms of South Park make me cringe, but I enjoy the bigger picture of its writting. Characters are very self-aware, well written and most shown in the episodes that try to make a positive point on how society works. Like the episode about The "List" or The "Photoshop" episode where messages of an intellectual concept is shown, it shows SP has a focus and flexable in the types of episodes written and Characters. Cartman can be a dick or an ally depending on what he wants. No real flandersization there which even Boondocks falls victim to and what 2 & Half men is built on.

Though my standards arent what an abridged series should need to be focused on hence parody genre but, I only speak on Crudeness not requiring intelligence to portray. Contary to belief a good parody needs to have intelligence, on the source material and on how its represented. The way South Park for another example portays celebrities is based on how they are percieved by society and condensed by it, not insulted based on the writter's views of them. Its the difference to how I took them making knocks on Kanye west being written in a way that it was legitamently humourous, and respectfully in character: over most other satire that basically just uses his representations by the media to defimate him.

When abridged series do this with characters it can help or destroy them to people that dont know of them. So many parodies of Freeza being gay had led people to think he was a transexual. All my friends thought that before they knew he was just an androginous reptile.

[ABED]

I'm not big on the idea of parodying something you love. Humor undercuts things, and while I can understand a few jokes here and there about some of the bad elements of the series, I don't think it's a healthy idea to make an entire show with that idea.

The thing I like about South Park, beyond its social commentary and satire, is that it's well written and funny. Family guy has a lot of good humor, but it's not a particularly well written show. It's random stuff thrown together. However, since it's a comedy and it does it's job of making me laugh (or did), then I'm fine.

[Zephyr]

But then their source of reference of the series comes from an inaccurate portrayal of it in the TFS version. I've had people comparing it to the original and giving the original flack for not being like the TFS version. Whats supposed to be funny about the series wont be funny from Toriyama's view but on our bastardized misinterpretation of it.

What's funny, is that this exactly what happened in the US. Only, back then, it was an officially licensed attempt to be a legitimate dub, not literally touting itself as a "fan based parody" and to "support the official release" as the prologue to every episode.

I've not witnessed criticism of the original because it wasn't the way TFS made it, from the people I've introduced to the series via the Abridged series. I feel it should also be noted that the people I've gotten into the series through Abridged held particular contempt for the franchise prior.

[ABED]

But then their source of reference of the series comes from an inaccurate portrayal of it in the TFS version. I've had people comparing it to the original and giving the original flack for not being like the TFS version. Whats supposed to be funny about the series wont be funny from Toriyama's view but on our bastardized misinterpretation of it.

What's funny, is that this exactly what happened in the US. Only, back then, it was an officially licensed attempt to be a legitimate dub, not literally touting itself as a "fan based parody" and to "support the official release" as the prologue to every episode.

I've not witnessed criticism of the original because it wasn't the way TFS made it, from the people I've introduced to the series via the Abridged series.

As crappy as it was, they weren't mocking the series. As bad as the acting was, I'll still take a green Schemmel over MasakoX. Hell, it was a relief from Kelamis.

[Zephyr]

That's beside the point I was making.

And "mocking" is far from the appropriate term here in regards to what the Abridged series does.

[ABED]

That's beside the point I was making.

And "mocking" is far from the appropriate term here in regards to what the Abridged series does.

It actually is. Humor undercuts.

[Zephyr]

Mock
Tease or laugh at in a scornful or contemptuous manner.

They're not doing anything they do out of scorn or contempt for the series. They're fans of the series.

[ABED]

Mock
Tease or laugh at in a scornful or contemptuous manner.

They're not doing anything they do out of scorn or contempt for the series. They're fans of the series.

Then why undercut something you value by creating a series that pokes fun of it? It makes no sense.

[KaiserNeko]

I'd like to point out that we rarely, if ever, make pop-culture references in the series. Sometimes in the movies and the specials, but that's because 90% of those were pretty mehtastic to begin with and we just like having stupid fun with them. Ultimately, you could count the amount of actual references to pop-culture we make an episode on one hand. And that's generous.

The kind of humor we go for is playful riffing and alternative character interpretations. We're having fun flanderizing characters while exploiting plot details in humorous manners. Sometimes, we like to explore bits of plot that were never there, or exploit holes. Sometimes we take characters in absolutely the opposite direction of their originals, offering a completely different dynamic between them and other characters.

We don't want to mock the series. Everyone and their mother has mocked and ridiculed it for it's drawbacks. We have fun with it, in our own way. If you don't enjoy the manner of which we parody the series? That's cool. But don't act like you have a BETTER way of doing it, because we don't care how YOU would have done it. That's not the point. This is how we're doing it. We love doing it our way... and so do our fans.

Mock
Tease or laugh at in a scornful or contemptuous manner.

They're not doing anything they do out of scorn or contempt for the series. They're fans of the series.

Then why undercut something you value by creating a series that pokes fun of it? It makes no sense.

Because everything has flaws and, sometimes, it's fun to poke fun at them and explore them. Especially something you're really close to that you feel like you have something to say about it.