Out of Character Moments in the series

[ABED]

It's a rather simple matter of me just being annoyed by the sound of her voice.

Then of course the voice acting won't be enough to overcome the shortcoming in the writing, you didn't care for the acting.

[goku the krump dancer]

it's the reluctance. Yes, he's been reluctant before, but based on where Gohan was at in the series, he wouldn't be reluctant to fight a creature as evil as Cell.

I know, but I think you missed the part where I mentioned that he's reluctant in the Boo arc as well which of course is way after said moment in the Cell arc.

Probably a bit shamed and embarrassed that his father knows that he slacked off, he's unsure about how to go about tapping into his "rage" that he is famous for. He shoots a half hearted Kamehameha at Boo's shell upon hatching witch as we all know does nothing. Then once Boo's released and we get confirmation that "it's him" Gohan attempts to run away (saying to himself that he's unsure about his power in the process) but Boo is too fast and he's forced to fight.

[ABED]

it's the reluctance. Yes, he's been reluctant before, but based on where Gohan was at in the series, he wouldn't be reluctant to fight a creature as evil as Cell.

I know, but I think you missed the part where I mentioned that he's reluctant in the Boo arc as well which of course is way after said moment in the Cell arc.

Probably a bit shamed and embarrassed that his father knows that he slacked off, he's unsure about how to go about tapping into his "rage" that he is famous for. He shoots a half hearted Kamehameha at Boo's shell upon hatching witch as we all know does nothing. Then once Boo's released and we get confirmation that "it's him" Gohan attempts to run away (saying to himself that he's unsure about his power in the process) but Boo is too fast and he's forced to fight.

That's different, there's an impetus for it, he slacked off.

[mAcChaos]

So what? He still hesitated and didn't blindly throw himself at the enemy, which is what people are saying is the problem. It's not like Gohan as a kid was anywhere close to the power of Freeza or anyone else on Namek when he blindly rushed in, slacking off or not, but he did it anyway.

[ABED]

So what? That means it's in character. Gohan went through a change that felt reasonable for his character at that time. It makes sense that someone who's life didn't revolve around fighting would slack off. No one was saying Gohan should've blindly attacked Cell. The problem is that Gohan spent years wanting to help out, and he had been around the block enough to know the kind of evil Cell was, so what does he do when it's his turn? "This is pointless, I don't like fighting like my dad does." The big difference is that when Gohan is fighting Dabura and Vegeta gets upset that Gohan's skills aren't as sharp, it was established earlier in the arc that Gohan had not kept up with his training. That point had been made several times.

[thatdbzguy]

In attempting to find some sort of logical reasoning behind Gohan's OOC, I thought of something.

Maybe the whole reason he was so reluctant to fight Cell was because he realized that the more he fought, the more that Goku would think that his son is just like him: a fighting-fanatic.

But then I realized that that was pitiful reasoning, as Gohan is not stupid enough to put his Dad's fake vision of him over the fate of the world.

I'll keep trying to see if I can find some reasoning that isn't complete horse poo, but so far, it's not looking good for this terribly written segment.

[Kamiccolo9]

Concerning Gohan and the Cell Juniors, I don't see a problem here. All of his friends are being tortured, and he's scared. Sure, he has the power to save them, but what's to say what happens when he goes to save one of them? As soon as Gohan jumps in to save someone, someone else is going to die. He can't save everyone, not at once. He's petrified.

As for the rest of the fight, Gohan is a kid from the little leagues brought up to play in the pros. He's a prodigy, with power and talent far surpassing his adult peers. But when the weight of the world is dropped on him, and him alone, he freezes. He doesn't know what to do. He rationalizes this by thinking, "maybe I don't want to do this after all?" and "I don't want to hurt anybody." Sure, he's got the ability, but he doesn't have the mindset for this kind of burden. He's a kid. He's never had everything depending on him before. There was always someone for him to fall back on; in the Saiyan Arc, Piccolo was there, with Goku on the way. On Namek, he knew that Goku was on his way, surely everything would be okay; his dad was coming. Of course he was eager to train for the Androids; his dad was going to be there! The guy who always, without fail, shows up to save the day.

And then, the Cell Games happened. He's just had the bomb dropped on him that his dad, the guy who is always there to save him, just can't do it. He's going to have to do it himself. Because he, Gohan, has surpassed the man who he has held on a pedestal for his entire life, the greatest guy in the world. And Gohan doesn't know how to handle that. He's confused. His father's whole plan is for Gohan to snap, to lose control, to get angry. But, in Gohan's eyes, this is nothing like what his father would do; Goku never loses control. How can Gohan be sure to make his father proud, to follow the plan, if he's not even in control? If he didn't even know about the plan to begin with?

So, here we are, with Gohan petrified by indecision, fear, and doubt. All of his friends are being tortured, and the minute he tries to save one, somebody else dies. He has Cell goading him on, and finally, it happens. Android 16, the pacifist who refused to fight, who was willing to sacrifice his own life in order to save the peaceful world that he, a machine, had come to love, is mercilessly and casually murdered by Cell. In a senseless act of sadism, one against someone who could not possibly harm him, Cell provides Gohan with the final tool he needs to let go.

[Kid Buu]

I don't exactly consider voice acting and music enough to redeem that scene, both because I'm primarily talking about the manga and because Nozawa's voice acting makes me want to pull a Piccolo.

Nozawa's Goku is an iconic performance. It takes awhile to get used to it, but it's a pretty good voice.

The cast has its fair share of veteran of the actors, such as the people who play Piccolo and Yamcha.

[thatdbzguy]

Concerning Gohan and the Cell Juniors, I don't see a problem here. All of his friends are being tortured, and he's scared. Sure, he has the power to save them, but what's to say what happens when he goes to save one of them? As soon as Gohan jumps in to save someone, someone else is going to die. He can't save everyone, not at once. He's petrified.

As for the rest of the fight, Gohan is a kid from the little leagues brought up to play in the pros. He's a prodigy, with power and talent far surpassing his adult peers. But when the weight of the world is dropped on him, and him alone, he freezes. He doesn't know what to do. He rationalizes this by thinking, "maybe I don't want to do this after all?" and "I don't want to hurt anybody." Sure, he's got the ability, but he doesn't have the mindset for this kind of burden. He's a kid. He's never had everything depending on him before. There was always someone for him to fall back on; in the Saiyan Arc, Piccolo was there, with Goku on the way. On Namek, he knew that Goku was on his way, surely everything would be okay; his dad was coming. Of course he was eager to train for the Androids; his dad was going to be there! The guy who always, without fail, shows up to save the day.

And then, the Cell Games happened. He's just had the bomb dropped on him that his dad, the guy who is always there to save him, just can't do it. He's going to have to do it himself. Because he, Gohan, has surpassed the man who he has held on a pedestal for his entire life, the greatest guy in the world. And Gohan doesn't know how to handle that. He's confused. His father's whole plan is for Gohan to snap, to lose control, to get angry. But, in Gohan's eyes, this is nothing like what his father would do; Goku never loses control. How can Gohan be sure to make his father proud, to follow the plan, if he's not even in control? If he didn't even know about the plan to begin with?

So, here we are, with Gohan petrified by indecision, fear, and doubt. All of his friends are being tortured, and the minute he tries to save one, somebody else dies. He has Cell goading him on, and finally, it happens. Android 16, the pacifist who refused to fight, who was willing to sacrifice his own life in order to save the peaceful world that he, a machine, had come to love, is mercilessly and casually murdered by Cell. In a senseless act of sadism, one against someone who could not possibly harm him, Cell provides Gohan with the final tool he needs to let go.

Except that regardless of how "doubtful" he was, Gohan would never go up to a villain and straight up ask him to stop fighting, knowing the answer would be no. That was so OOC for Gohan. After the Saiyan and Namek arcs, he should know better. Plus, the revelation of being stronger than Goku is nothing new to Gohan. He was stronger than Goku during his rage boost against Raditz.

[dbgtFO]

Except that regardless of how "doubtful" he was, Gohan would never go up to a villain and straight up ask him to stop fighting, knowing the answer would be no. That was so OOC for Gohan.

How could you possibly know this?

After the Saiyan and Namek arcs, he should know better. Plus, the revelation of being stronger than Goku is nothing new to Gohan. He was stronger than Goku during his rage boost against Raditz.

Gohan was unaware of his strength back then.

[thatdbzguy]

Except that regardless of how "doubtful" he was, Gohan would never go up to a villain and straight up ask him to stop fighting, knowing the answer would be no. That was so OOC for Gohan.

How could you possibly know this?

If he was smart enough to not do that before, than there is absolutely zero reason why he wouldn't be here.

Gohan was unaware of his strength back then.

Piccolo flat-out told him.

[Kamiccolo9]

Concerning Gohan and the Cell Juniors, I don't see a problem here. All of his friends are being tortured, and he's scared. Sure, he has the power to save them, but what's to say what happens when he goes to save one of them? As soon as Gohan jumps in to save someone, someone else is going to die. He can't save everyone, not at once. He's petrified.

As for the rest of the fight, Gohan is a kid from the little leagues brought up to play in the pros. He's a prodigy, with power and talent far surpassing his adult peers. But when the weight of the world is dropped on him, and him alone, he freezes. He doesn't know what to do. He rationalizes this by thinking, "maybe I don't want to do this after all?" and "I don't want to hurt anybody." Sure, he's got the ability, but he doesn't have the mindset for this kind of burden. He's a kid. He's never had everything depending on him before. There was always someone for him to fall back on; in the Saiyan Arc, Piccolo was there, with Goku on the way. On Namek, he knew that Goku was on his way, surely everything would be okay; his dad was coming. Of course he was eager to train for the Androids; his dad was going to be there! The guy who always, without fail, shows up to save the day.

And then, the Cell Games happened. He's just had the bomb dropped on him that his dad, the guy who is always there to save him, just can't do it. He's going to have to do it himself. Because he, Gohan, has surpassed the man who he has held on a pedestal for his entire life, the greatest guy in the world. And Gohan doesn't know how to handle that. He's confused. His father's whole plan is for Gohan to snap, to lose control, to get angry. But, in Gohan's eyes, this is nothing like what his father would do; Goku never loses control. How can Gohan be sure to make his father proud, to follow the plan, if he's not even in control? If he didn't even know about the plan to begin with?

So, here we are, with Gohan petrified by indecision, fear, and doubt. All of his friends are being tortured, and the minute he tries to save one, somebody else dies. He has Cell goading him on, and finally, it happens. Android 16, the pacifist who refused to fight, who was willing to sacrifice his own life in order to save the peaceful world that he, a machine, had come to love, is mercilessly and casually murdered by Cell. In a senseless act of sadism, one against someone who could not possibly harm him, Cell provides Gohan with the final tool he needs to let go.

Except that regardless of how "doubtful" he was, Gohan would never go up to a villain and straight up ask him to stop fighting, knowing the answer would be no. That was so OOC for Gohan. After the Saiyan and Namek arcs, he should know better. Plus, the revelation of being stronger than Goku is nothing new to Gohan. He was stronger than Goku during his rage boost against Raditz.

Gohan's never been this far out of his depth before. There's always been something else for him to fall back on; here, there's nothing. Either he wins, or everybody, everywhere dies.

And are you seriously comparing this to an unconscious burst of power he had when he was 4?

The point isn't that he was stronger than Goku, it's that he couldn't believe he was stronger than Goku. Remember his reaction when Goku told Gohan he was stronger than he was? He was shocked. You're expecting someone to act rationally in an irrational situation. People don't. They get scared, they start over-thinking things, they panic, they freeze up.

I'll restate what I said way back on the first page: people are not static, unchanging beings. You could put the same guy in the same situations and he will behave differently during both of them. Taken to an extreme, there are serial killers in real life who nobody expected because "they were so nice." Yet they had bodies in their basement. Were they "out of character" too?

[ABED]

That inconsistency is still coming from a consistent place.

[Kamiccolo9]

That inconsistency is still coming from a consistent place.

What?

[ABED]

That inconsistency is still coming from a consistent place.

What?

People don't act inconsistent for no reason, it all comes from the same place. If you are inconsistent, it could be because the person is a pragmatist or whim worshiper.

Instead of a simple "what?" which could mean a number of things, you could ask for clarification if you're confused about my point.

[Kamiccolo9]

That inconsistency is still coming from a consistent place.

What?

People don't act inconsistent for no reason, it all comes from the same place. If you are inconsistent, it could be because the person is a pragmatist or whim worshiper.

Instead of a simple "what?" which could mean a number of things, you could ask for clarification if you're confused about my point.

My apologies.
That's true. But was causes inconsistency isn't always immediately apparent.
I believe I covered what I think is the basis for Gohan's inconsistency at the Cell Games.

[ABED]

No problem

But was causes inconsistency isn't always immediately apparent.

Very true.

[thatdbzguy]

Concerning Gohan and the Cell Juniors, I don't see a problem here. All of his friends are being tortured, and he's scared. Sure, he has the power to save them, but what's to say what happens when he goes to save one of them? As soon as Gohan jumps in to save someone, someone else is going to die. He can't save everyone, not at once. He's petrified.

As for the rest of the fight, Gohan is a kid from the little leagues brought up to play in the pros. He's a prodigy, with power and talent far surpassing his adult peers. But when the weight of the world is dropped on him, and him alone, he freezes. He doesn't know what to do. He rationalizes this by thinking, "maybe I don't want to do this after all?" and "I don't want to hurt anybody." Sure, he's got the ability, but he doesn't have the mindset for this kind of burden. He's a kid. He's never had everything depending on him before. There was always someone for him to fall back on; in the Saiyan Arc, Piccolo was there, with Goku on the way. On Namek, he knew that Goku was on his way, surely everything would be okay; his dad was coming. Of course he was eager to train for the Androids; his dad was going to be there! The guy who always, without fail, shows up to save the day.

And then, the Cell Games happened. He's just had the bomb dropped on him that his dad, the guy who is always there to save him, just can't do it. He's going to have to do it himself. Because he, Gohan, has surpassed the man who he has held on a pedestal for his entire life, the greatest guy in the world. And Gohan doesn't know how to handle that. He's confused. His father's whole plan is for Gohan to snap, to lose control, to get angry. But, in Gohan's eyes, this is nothing like what his father would do; Goku never loses control. How can Gohan be sure to make his father proud, to follow the plan, if he's not even in control? If he didn't even know about the plan to begin with?

So, here we are, with Gohan petrified by indecision, fear, and doubt. All of his friends are being tortured, and the minute he tries to save one, somebody else dies. He has Cell goading him on, and finally, it happens. Android 16, the pacifist who refused to fight, who was willing to sacrifice his own life in order to save the peaceful world that he, a machine, had come to love, is mercilessly and casually murdered by Cell. In a senseless act of sadism, one against someone who could not possibly harm him, Cell provides Gohan with the final tool he needs to let go.

Except that regardless of how "doubtful" he was, Gohan would never go up to a villain and straight up ask him to stop fighting, knowing the answer would be no. That was so OOC for Gohan. After the Saiyan and Namek arcs, he should know better. Plus, the revelation of being stronger than Goku is nothing new to Gohan. He was stronger than Goku during his rage boost against Raditz.

Gohan's never been this far out of his depth before. There's always been something else for him to fall back on; here, there's nothing. Either he wins, or everybody, everywhere dies.

And are you seriously comparing this to an unconscious burst of power he had when he was 4?

The point isn't that he was stronger than Goku, it's that he couldn't believe he was stronger than Goku. Remember his reaction when Goku told Gohan he was stronger than he was? He was shocked. You're expecting someone to act rationally in an irrational situation. People don't. They get scared, they start over-thinking things, they panic, they freeze up.

I'll restate what I said way back on the first page: people are not static, unchanging beings. You could put the same guy in the same situations and he will behave differently during both of them. Taken to an extreme, there are serial killers in real life who nobody expected because "they were so nice." Yet they had bodies in their basement. Were they "out of character" too?

None of that justifies Gohan's absurdly OOC naiveness . Even if he was scared, why would he bother asking Cell to stop fighting when he knows the answer will be no? Did he honestly think that Cell would just quit being evil because Gohan asked him too?

[Flame Dragon]

Cell has no main goal or agenda other than proving he's the strongest. That's why Gohan said "this fight... it's pointless".
Vegeta wanted the Dragon Balls.
Freeza had his world trade organization and his plans of universe domination.

Cell just wanted to fight for the sake of it, putting the Earth's future at stake for no reason.
Of course trying to stop Cell with words instead of violence was worth a try, even if Gohan knew in his heart it would never work.

[Kamiccolo9]

None of that justifies Gohan's absurdly OOC naiveness . Even if he was scared, why would he bother asking Cell to stop fighting when he knows the answer will be no? Did he honestly think that Cell would just quit being evil because Gohan asked him too?

Gohan isn't thinking that. He's barely thinking at all. He's panicking. One is not simply rational in a state of extreme emotional stress.