The Newest Batch of Toriyama Tidbits...

[TheGmGoken]

Wow...people still think Supes the first person to have that origin....

You never mentioned anyone in the other thread to have that origin before Superman did. As in, an alien being sent to Earth avoid the destruction of their home planet, not any of a million other stories that happen to have a few similar themes.

Yes...Yes I did. Rocketman even responded to it. The only difference was that Supes from space. Everything else was the same.

[dbzfan7]

Can we see the posts of characters before Supes who had that origin?

[DonZ]

You know, i actually like the Dr.Gero modeled Android 16 after his dead son. it seems interesting, i would like to know more about Dr.Gero's son.

[Kamiccolo9]

Wow...people still think Supes the first person to have that origin....

You never mentioned anyone in the other thread to have that origin before Superman did. As in, an alien being sent to Earth avoid the destruction of their home planet, not any of a million other stories that happen to have a few similar themes.

Yes...Yes I did. Rocketman even responded to it. The only difference was that Supes from space. Everything else was the same.

I remember Rocketman's response. It's the same thing I just said in my previous post. Yeah, if you ignore all of the details and take only a vague sense of direction, then sure, they have the same origin. But only if you ignore practically everything about the character other than than the "Sent away" part. There's more to an origin than that.

[TheGmGoken]

Can we see the posts of characters before Supes who had that origin?

Ugh...I hate this Superman ripoff crap. Supes ain't the first person with that type of back story damn it. Many other fictional stories have them even before Supes. Its getting fucking annoying to hear people claiming every story with this BG say Superman ripoff. When Supes didn't even invent it.

Well...Supes was basically Space Moses

Ugh...I hate this Superman ripoff crap. Supes ain't the first person with that type of back story damn it. Many other fictional stories have them even before Supes.

I'm curious, name some.

You want other examples like before Supes or other examples that are similar yet are called Supe rip off. Supes is easily just the most popular version. But long before 1937(?) there was stories of sending someone(kid, teen, baby, or Adult) away from destruction of a home. I guess you can say Supes was first from space but wasn't the first with the concept. The bible had stories about this now and some caveman art stories also had these.

Not to mention Supes was made with that origin as the creator was fall away when his father died. Which many writers use this personal stuff as origins. Being send away to be the protector of something(One of Dc universes) or sent away from destruction(original) has been around long before Supes. Supes made it famous.

Yeah, if you ignore all of the details and take only a vague sense of direction, then sure, they have the same origin. But only if you ignore practically everything about the character other than than the "Sent away" part. There's more to an origin than that.

Dude I own hundreds of Supes comics. I'm well aware of the multiple origins of Supes

Not to mention Supes is a rip off origin of Jack Williamson character who was a scientist Martian i think who sent his daughter away from the planet destruction. SOUNDS FAMILIAR! ?

[Kamiccolo9]

Yeah, if you ignore all of the details and take only a vague sense of direction, then sure, they have the same origin. But only if you ignore practically everything about the character other than than the "Sent away" part. There's more to an origin than that.

Dude I own hundreds of Supes comics. I'm well aware of the multiple origins of Supes

....What? That has nothing to do with what I was saying. The point is you can find similar themes in nearly every story ever, but that does not make them the same story. Sure, other stories may have a "Sent away" theme, but that doesn't mean that they have the same story as Superman. Again, they are only the "same" if you ignore the details, and only focus on a vague sense of similarity. By that logic, you could say that the first Godzilla movie and Spiderman 3 are the same story because they both share the theme of misuse of power.

[TheGmGoken]

Yeah, if you ignore all of the details and take only a vague sense of direction, then sure, they have the same origin. But only if you ignore practically everything about the character other than than the "Sent away" part. There's more to an origin than that.

Dude I own hundreds of Supes comics. I'm well aware of the multiple origins of Supes

....What? That has nothing to do with what I was saying. The point is you can find similar themes in nearly every story ever, but that does not make them the same story. Sure, other stories may have a "Sent away" theme, but that doesn't mean that they have the same story as Superman. Again, they are only the "same" if you ignore the details, and only focus on a vague sense of similarity. By that logic, you could say that the first Godzilla movie and Spiderman 3 are the same story because they both share the theme of misuse of power.

Not to mention Supes is a rip off origin of Jack Williamson character who was a scientist Martian i think who sent his daughter away from the planet destruction. SOUNDS FAMILIAR! ? Siguel even cited where it got the ideas for the origin. SUPES made it famous. Jack's story was pretty damn much the same(even in more into detail as you wanted). He also(he being Siguel) use Jewish stuff in it. Supes origin ain't original. Which origin are you using? I'm using Action Comic that came out in 1937 or 1938. I forgot

[Kamiccolo9]

Not to mention Supes is a rip off origin of Jack Williamson character who was a scientist Martian i think who sent his daughter away from the planet destruction. SOUNDS FAMILIAR! ? Siguel even cited where it got the ideas for the origin. SUPES made it famous. Jack's story was pretty damn much the same(even in more into detail as you wanted). He also(he being Siguel) use Jewish stuff in it. Supes origin ain't original. Which origin are you using? I'm using Action Comic that came out in 1937 or 1938. I forgot

Again, and you don't seem to get this, you are only looking at the superficial aspects of the origin, while ignoring the deeper parts of the story. Why was Superman sent? What were the repercussions of him leaving/arriving from Krypton/Earth? What was his impact on his new society? How was he raised? All of these things are aspects of an origin, not just "where did he come from." "Who he is" is just as important.
Also, stop throwing random capitalized letters into your posts. It's annoying, and adds nothing to the point you're trying to make. It just make your posts harder to read.

[Low Tone G]

People are also clinging to a faulty translation when it comes to what the elder kai said. The elder kai never said the one who sealed him was weaker than Buu, he said he was never as BAD as Buu, which essentially means evil. That is true because Beerus isn't evil, he's a neutral being who only does what his job dictates he do.

"Long, long ago, there was this ridiculously strong and bad dude. Well, he wasn’t as bad as this Majin Boo guy now, but still."

Here's the original line.

Really, that was the original line? If so, the question is answered and Toriyama wasn't wrong.

[TheGmGoken]

Not to mention Supes is a rip off origin of Jack Williamson character who was a scientist Martian i think who sent his daughter away from the planet destruction. SOUNDS FAMILIAR! ? Siguel even cited where it got the ideas for the origin. SUPES made it famous. Jack's story was pretty damn much the same(even in more into detail as you wanted). He also(he being Siguel) use Jewish stuff in it. Supes origin ain't original. Which origin are you using? I'm using Action Comic that came out in 1937 or 1938. I forgot

Again, and you don't seem to get this, you are only looking at the superficial aspects of the origin, while ignoring the deeper parts of the story. Why was Superman sent? What were the repercussions of him leaving/arriving from Krypton/Earth? What was his impact on his new society? How was he raised? All of these things are aspects of an origin, not just "where did he come from." "Who he is" is just as important.
Also, stop throwing random capitalized letters into your posts. It's annoying, and adds nothing to the point you're trying to make. It just make your posts harder to read.

Ok. Exactly which origin are you using. Also I can't stop the caps as my autocorrect don't let me erase. My phone got water damage from flood.
His impact on society is nothing like Goku, more similar to Jack's Martian(forgot their name) daughter story. So was the reason leaving and repercussion. Do you know who Jack Williamson IS? Do you even know what his Martian story is about? Jack Williamson himself said there are STRONG and obvious stuff Supes got from his story

[Hellspawn28]

You know, i actually like the Dr.Gero modeled Android 16 after his dead son. it seems interesting, i would like to know more about Dr.Gero's son.

I like the idea too. It seems like #17 became a park ranger at a nature preserve after the Cell saga. I kinda like that too since we did saw him next to a Forest when Goku was asking for people's energy on Earth for the Genki Dama. Not to mention people seem to think that #17 in Goku's timeline was never very evil to begin with. That explains why him and Pilaf were wish back to life.

[Kamiccolo9]

Not to mention Supes is a rip off origin of Jack Williamson character who was a scientist Martian i think who sent his daughter away from the planet destruction. SOUNDS FAMILIAR! ? Siguel even cited where it got the ideas for the origin. SUPES made it famous. Jack's story was pretty damn much the same(even in more into detail as you wanted). He also(he being Siguel) use Jewish stuff in it. Supes origin ain't original. Which origin are you using? I'm using Action Comic that came out in 1937 or 1938. I forgot

Again, and you don't seem to get this, you are only looking at the superficial aspects of the origin, while ignoring the deeper parts of the story. Why was Superman sent? What were the repercussions of him leaving/arriving from Krypton/Earth? What was his impact on his new society? How was he raised? All of these things are aspects of an origin, not just "where did he come from." "Who he is" is just as important.
Also, stop throwing random capitalized letters into your posts. It's annoying, and adds nothing to the point you're trying to make. It just make your posts harder to read.

Ok. Exactly which origin are you using. Also I can't stop the caps as my autocorrect don't let me erase. My phone got water damage from flood.
His impact on society is nothing like Goku, more similar to Jack's Martian(forgot their name) daughter story. So was the reason leaving and repercussion. Do you know who Jack Williamson IS? Do you even know what his Martian story is about? Jack Williamson himself said there are STRONG and obvious stuff Supes got from his story

I prefer the John Byrne Post-Crisis origin, but here I'm referring to the original 1930's one. Williamson said that there were "strong similarities" not that it was the same story. Which is what I've been saying all along. You can have similar themes, but that doesn't make the origin story the same.

Which is why what Dragon Ball Minus did is so bad. Goku now has almost the exact same origin as Superman now. He was sent away by his father to avoid his planet's destruction to be found and raised by elderly Earthlings who teach him the basic concepts of morality and who is destined to become his new home's greatest hero. And depending on which Superman you are referring to, both also renounce their former home in favor of Earth.

Any and all of these can be common themes in character origins and stories. It's when you throw all of them together that they become "homages" or "ripoffs," depending on how you view such things. Superman didn't do that; as of now, Dragon Ball has.

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

50× will never be stronger then 100×-400× no matter how masterd it is.

Not unless SSG Aura + Mastered SSJ = x1000 boost.

You know, i actually like the Dr.Gero modeled Android 16 after his dead son. it seems interesting, i would like to know more about Dr.Gero's son.

I like the idea too. It seems like #17 became a park ranger at a nature preserve after the Cell saga. I kinda like that too since we did saw him next to a Forest when Goku was asking for people's energy on Earth for the Genki Dama. Not to mention people seem to think that #17 in Goku's timeline was never very evil to begin with. That explains why him and Pilaf were wish back to life.

None of that makes any sense though, nothing in his personality really reflects that - he just based that off filler originally designed for Lunch right? I would have figured 17 could have been someone that works at am amusement park considering he wants a form of fun to fufill him if killing people is out of the question; and it is all he did with 18 anyway. Riding rollar coasters... now hes a park ranger? Will #18 become a resturant waitress too?

Also why would Gero make a weapon based on his own son? How does that make sense?

[Hellspawn28]

Gero loves his son, so he doesn't want his son to die. He wants his son to live on forever and both can be happy.

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

There's nothing wrong with Toriyama saying ssj2 and ssj3 aren't really needed anymore as they're not. Transforming does nothing for Goku after having absorbed the ssjg powers. He didn't receive any kind of increase from going ssj after absorbing the power so he wouldn't receive one when going ssj2 or ssj3 either. It's similar to Gohan's mystic form where transforming into a ssj would do nothing for him.

It also justifies why Adult Gohan was always getting weaker, because Form stacking is a straining and insufficent way of achieving new peaks as proven through Gohan and Vegeta, it requires to much maintenance and ki consumption. It brings us back to the whole USSJ logic Trunks missed. Now every form for Goku prior will be treated the same way.

Gero loves his son, so he doesn't want his son to die. He wants his son to live on forever and both can be happy.

.. and kill Goku as a favour.


Even as painfully cliche as that storyline sounds, it still doesnt make sense for Geros character.

[TheGmGoken]

Williamson said that there were "strong similarities" not that it was the same story. Which is what I've been saying all along. You can have similar themes, but that doesn't make the origin story the same.

Which is why what Dragon Ball Minus did is so bad. Goku now has almost the exact same origin as Superman now. He was sent away by his father to avoid his planet's destruction to be found and raised by elderly Earthlings who teach him the basic concepts of morality and who is destined to become his new home's greatest hero. And depending on which Superman you are referring to, both also renounce their former home in favor of Earth.

Any and all of these can be common themes in character origins and stories. It's when you throw all of them together that they become "homages" or "ripoffs," depending on how you view such things. Superman didn't do that; as of now, Dragon Ball has.

You can say DB had strong similarities as well. Please tell me have you EVER watched..,well read the Martian story? Also I was referring to the guy who said Goku always had a rip off version origin. Where Goku was on a mission not sent sway to prevent death. Supes ain't original. He just made it famous.

[Hellspawn28]

Also if #18 can become good then it's possible that #17 can as well. Dende's wish to make sure that the really evil ones were not wish back seeing that Dabra, Babidi, and most likely Tao never got wish back.

[FortuneSSJ]

But I dont get it. If he says Goku doesnt need ssj2 or ssj3 anymore that means there's new material coming?!
Whats the point of this bit if there isnt anything more coming?!

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

That's stupid... SSj2 and 3 will stick around for sure.
The best part for me was 17 and 18's names. This could led to a LOT of more fan art. Fans who don't look up info are going to be very confused when they see a picture of 18 and the label only says "Lazuli".

Those names sound too strange for me to accept.

Welp. Love him and all but does he expect anyone to buy he thought of Beerus already 20 years ago when writing Old Kai's story lol? Of course not.

Well he cant go back in time to write it in.

Saiyans are good and care for their families and babies ?

Gine had a gentle personality and wasn’t cut out as a warrior, being repeatedly saved from danger by Bardock. At that time, a special emotion was born between them. Normally, Saiyans don’t have much of a notion of romance or marriage, and apart from the royal family of Vegeta, they aren’t particular about blood-relationships.
Being in among all that, I suppose you could say that the pair of Bardock and Gine were those rare Saiyans who were joined by a bond other than for reproductive purposes.

Yes, Toriyama sure loves paradoxes.

Unusual does not mean impossible. A liger is an unusual breed of cat and uncommon but not impossible. Clearly sayians seldom put in any meaning to their mating set ups as they only care about structural productive activities, they are a barbaric race who are animal-like in culture if not domesticated by Freeza. Bardock and Gine's relationship could just be out of their compatible personalities attracting them more so than normal practice.

Interviewer: Toriyama-Sensei did you read your manga and the supplementary information you had already given before agreeing to this Q&A?
Toriyama is the fucking master of trolling. he didn't even care about reading the manga as a preparation for the Q&A. DEAL WITH IT.

Enough of that "deal with it' junk. Discussions are meant to be discussed.

[Kamiccolo9]

That's stupid... SSj2 and 3 will stick around for sure.
The best part for me was 17 and 18's names. This could led to a LOT of more fan art. Fans who don't look up info are going to be very confused when they see a picture of 18 and the label only says "Lazuli".

Those names sound too strange for me to accept.

Why? How are they any worse than "Piccolo?" Or "Mr. Satan?" Or "Kuririn?"