What phrases/opinions/things bring out your irate fanboy?

[Lord Beerus]

What do people have against the word "busting"?

It's nonsensical and inapplicable term, yet it is constantly used for the sake of a measuring stick for which certain characters must reach in regards to their power to qualify as relevant and justifiable.

[Zenkai]

Censorship

The name filters, as far as I understand, was put into place over 10 years ago in order to maintain consistency of terminology between fans from all over the world. Kanzenshuu maintains an international audience.

Beyond that, it's their message board. They can put name filters in place if they want and there is nothing wrong with that. It's not censorship insofar that they aren't suppressing certain idea's or thoughts. Just a handful of terms that aren't accurate the majority of versions of Dragon Ball.

But how is "Hercule" being changed to "Hercule" not confusing? As if foreigners really know what the "H-word" means....

[ssjjanemba]

What do people have against the word "busting"?

It's nonsensical and inapplicable term, yet it is constantly used for the sake of a measuring stick for which certain characters must reach in regards to their power to qualify as relevant and justifiable.

What other word can we use then?

[Dyno]

But how is "Hercule" being changed to "(the H-word)" not confusing? As if foreigners really know what the "H-word" means....

Until I have seen your post, "H-word" for me was "Hell". I didn't know it was "Hercule".

[Polyphase Avatron]

What do people have against the word "busting"?

It's nonsensical and inapplicable term, yet it is constantly used for the sake of a measuring stick for which certain characters must reach in regards to their power to qualify as relevant and justifiable.

What other word can we use then?

You could try quantifying things in terms of peak energy output per unit time in watts... but that would be practically impossible.

[Kamiccolo9]

What do people have against the word "busting"?

It's nonsensical and inapplicable term, yet it is constantly used for the sake of a measuring stick for which certain characters must reach in regards to their power to qualify as relevant and justifiable.

What other word can we use then?

(Insert character name) can destroy (insert destructible thing.)

When I hear "busting," I think of a kid running around popping people's balloons. It sounds stupid.

[rereboy]

You could try quantifying things in terms of peak energy output per unit time in watts... but that would be practically impossible.

Like I posted in the last page, you can just call it "continent level", "planet level", "solar system level", etc.

[Polyphase Avatron]

You could try quantifying things in terms of peak energy output per unit time in watts... but that would be practically impossible.

Like I posted in the last page, you can just call it "continent level", "planet level", "solar system level", etc.

Except that varies quite a lot...

[rereboy]

Except that varies quite a lot...

Yeah, but the objective of these classifications is to offer a quick, easy to understand reference for classes of power for comparison purposes between characters with easily distinguishable classes of power.

When you say that a character is at "planet level" or "planet buster", you are thinking of planets around Earth's size because that's our primary frame of reference and the quickest, and if you want to differentiate inside that level, you can say "small planet level" (kind of like Mercury) or "large planet level" (kind of like Jupiter).

When you say "solar system", you are thinking of our solar system, and so on.

Frankly, saying that theses classifications aren't very accurate is kind of missing their point. Their point is to quickly differentiate between characters like, for example, Galactus and Hulk. Galactus can be at Galaxy or Universe Level, while Hulk can be at Island Level to Planet Level. As you see, with few words, we quickly have an effective comparison between the characters regarding their classes of power and a rough estimate of their top capabilities.

[Saiga]

Goku was on a verge of dying while training in gravity chamber, but he didn't look bad. And so didn't Vegeta. Why Yamcha should look bad?

Because those were completely different situations? Goku/Vegeta pushed themselves very far as part of their training, and needed to do so to get stronger. Goku was also shown slowly building himself up to make sure he could handle it.

Yamcha was just out to prove something to himself, took no time to actually ease into it, and nearly killed himself as a result. Not because of pushing himself to his limits, but because he had absolutely no idea what his limits were. Yeah, that looks pretty bad.

Toei can't develope everything the way they want to. They highly depend on manga, if mangaka chooses to kill a character/make him useless, then Toei does the same. There was no time/no place to follow it up as well.

It would have been totally out of place later in the story. The story was about saiyans, and frankly much of them didn't matter either.

They can and they bloody have, already. I never said they needed to change the manga, but there is so much room for them to do so while still following the manga's plot.

As for no time / no place, that's really wrong. There was ten days leading up to the Cell Games that Toei spent having Goku solve puzzles that they could have used to follow up on this. The fact that Yamcha isn't having an impact on the main plot does not at all mean he can't have a side plot that develops his character.

Frankly, it wouldn't have been more out of place than the other filler we got. It'd be a huge improvement over shit like Satan's disciples or whatever. Toei needed to add filler as they went along so why not follow up on a scene they already added?

[Big Momma]

My problem with "Busting" is that I don't see it as a good sign of strength. We see in the beginning of Movie 8 that Broly is a "Galaxy Buster". As in, he seemingly destroys an entire galaxy at once. However, Goku (using the energy of the other fighters) is still able to win. But I'm certain Goku isn't able to destroy an entire galaxy at once, especially not at that point in the series.

Then you've got Buu, who at the very least is a planet/Solar System buster. He was defeated by a Spirit Bomb using the energy from everyone on earth. The spirit Bomb killed Buu, but I don't it could blow up a planet. Or, it definitely couldn't blow up a solar system.

I don't see "feats" as a good way to measure strength in a "Who would win?" scenario. There's more to winning a fight than how big of a thing you can blow up.

[Mystic Tien]

Because those were completely different situations? Goku/Vegeta pushed themselves very far as part of their training, and needed to do so to get stronger. Goku was also shown slowly building himself up to make sure he could handle it.

Yamcha was just out to prove something to himself, took no time to actually ease into it, and nearly killed himself as a result. Not because of pushing himself to his limits, but because he had absolutely no idea what his limits were. Yeah, that looks pretty bad.

And? Yamcha wanted to prove himself that he can be as strong as them, what is wrong here?

Exactly. So what? Vegeta does it all the time, he nearly killed himself to just get SSJ to prove himself that he is better than Goku. If not for Bulma, he would have died. He doesn't know what his limits are.

hey can and they bloody have, already. I never said they needed to change the manga, but there is so much room for them to do so while still following the manga's plot.

As for no time / no place, that's really wrong. There was ten days leading up to the Cell Games that Toei spent having Goku solve puzzles that they could have used to follow up on this. The fact that Yamcha isn't having an impact on the main plot does not at all mean he can't have a side plot that develops his character.

Frankly, it wouldn't have been more out of place than the other filler we got. It'd be a huge improvement over shit like Satan's disciples or whatever. Toei needed to add filler as they went along so why not follow up on a scene they already added?

Yamcha is irrelevant in Buu saga, he doesn't need a filler for himself, Goku and Gohan were supposed to be the main characters. And Trunks and Goten - secondary ones.

Cell games were dedicated to Gohan and Goku, Yamcha was pretty irrelevant there. Showing a filler about Yamcha during the 10 days before the battle with the strongest alien on Earth who is supposed to be defeated by Goku or Gohan won't make any sense.

At the very least Satan was relevant in both Cell and Buu sagas, so there was a point to expand his role, and show more stories and interactions with him. Yamcha was kind of just there. Tien barely even appeared in Buu saga in both anime and manga. Humans by that point were just some spectators at best.

[Akira]

What an interesting topic, inviting us all to share our opinions (which is almost too hard to resist), but also a very risky topic idea (in terms of potential powder keg implications) of how we could potentially ignite each other. I read through all pages of the topic, and saw many things that bother me too, and some not as much. I believe the value to be gained here is better understanding of the types of things that could potentially ignite each other, and to tread lightly in those areas, if one could be so disciplined and inclined to gather that as a take-way from such a thread.

First, I'd like to add my two cents on some of the previously mentioned peeves shared with my peers:

On the subject of sub vs. dub > Aside from the Pilaf Saga of DB, and the Saiyan and Namek sagas of Z, which I saw dubbed first, everything else I saw subbed in the original language first. At this point, in 2015, I've watched the entire series through DB-DBZ probably a dozen or so times since the turn of the century, and have watched it as many times subbed as I have dubbed, with all music scores (which is a separate sub point all its own which I'll get to below) and all voice tracks. Therefore, both versions seem "correct" to me. I don't mean to come across as a fence sitter on this matter, but I like both versions equally.

-Fact remains, the original Z dub is heavily flawed, and although I do still occasionally re-watch parts of the series, I'm often times doing other things at the same time, due to having seen it so many times. I don't want to drop all attention to watching the screen and reading the subtitles every time, so I generally watch the dub. However, I much prefer the original music and the accurate dialog, so I watch a combination of Dub Audio/Japanese Music Track/Japanese Subtitles On. That way, during those painful scenes where the dub butchered the dialog, I can pause, look up, and read what they actually are saying, and ignore the bad alterations.

(The worst of those, that is non-overlookable, and irks me to no end, is Goku's plea to Krillin to "Spare Vegeta, because he could turn to good someday" nonsense at the end of the Saiyan saga. He spared him to fight him again, it was selfish and totally Goku's character. I hate the dub line because it somehow tries to make Goku into a psychic foreshadower.)

On the subject of music, I prefer the original Japanese music track. In particular, I like the theme that plays when Goku returns from snake way to Guardian's lookout, grabs the Senzu from Korin and leaves on Nimbus to head to the saiyan fight. That captures the excitement and rush there better than anything else. I also enjoy the revamped what I call "Piccolo's Theme" but it often is played during fight scenes and such. Just overall more fitting.

On the flipside, I won't deny that the Falconer audio had a few unique tracks that I also really like. I can't watch the show with the nonstop music at all anymore, but certain scenes I'm known to press the "Audio" button on the remote and listen to that track for a specific scene. In particular are Vegeta's Final Flash against Perfect Cell, and Goku's ascension to Super Saiyan 3 against Majin Buu. To say that the Falconer track overall is better is definitely an opinion I don't share, but it has its moments where I feel it adds to a dramatic scene.

On to other peeves of mine..

On the matter of Broly > I don't outright hate the character, nor do I care to argue about it much anymore, but I severely dislike the way he is portrayed in related media (video games in particular) and fan discussions as some sort of top tier unstoppable force. Budokai 3's opening cutscene showed him going toe to toe with Gogeta, and even Xenoverse has him as a post-Beerus, Post-Demygra high level side quest. Canon or not, the fact is, Broly would get one-shotted by any fused character, and the likes of Beerus or Super Saiyan God Goku is not even in the realm of possibility. I seriously think Super Saiyan 2 Goku from the Buu Saga would completely overwhelm Broly, let alone anyone or any form stronger than that. I admit that is my opinion, but I just don't care for the fan service they throw out there to appease those who support that notion.

I won't go into specifics, but my last and greatest peeve is debating or arguing any point that is directly or indirectly explained in the Manga or given enough information to draw an undeniable conclusion in favor of personal "head canon" or whatever you call it on something you disagree with. If there just isn't enough information or precedent, then sure, everyone draw your own conclusion that makes sense to you, but when there is, why choose to fight an uphill battle or agitate others trying to complicate it?

I know most these days have a short attention span and will, at the very best, skim my post, if that, so I'll just stop here rather than include anything else. I will say I enjoy the community here more than bothering with discussion anywhere else on the internet because the fans here make it enjoyable to talk about. Without the mostly level headed, intelligent discussion to be found here, it would be a fool's errand to try and have such a thread elsewhere. For that, my thanks to all fellow fans on this forum.

[The Desert Bandit]

God, did a flame start over Yamcha and filler? Lol.

Can't we just agree that Toei Animation and Akira Toriyama messed up and made Yamcha useless when they could've expanded his character development? We could argue on how bad/good Yamcha looked in any scene, but no matter how fantastic or stupid filler makes Yamcha look we can't deny that the storyline has shunned and scorned him.

Basically, we shouldn't be arguing over how filler interprets Yamcha. The fact is Toei and AT still downgraded him heavily in Z as they did with the other humans.

[Mystic Tien]

God, did a flame start over Yamcha and filler? Lol.

Can't we just agree that Toei Animation and Akira Toriyama messed up and made Yamcha useless when they could've expanded his character development? We could argue on how bad/good Yamcha looked in any scene, but no matter how fantastic or stupid filler makes Yamcha look we can't deny that the storyline has shunned and scorned him.

Basically, we shouldn't be arguing over how filler interprets Yamcha. The fact is Toei and AT still downgraded him heavily in Z as they did with the other humans.

Yeah, we can. Toriyama and Toei really hate him. Though Toei at least tried to make him shine a few times, while Toriyama didn't even bother.

[MajinMan]

Just to name a few

- Long and pointless arguments about who's stronger than who (only if it goes on too long)
- Broly is maximum arguments
- People who say Yamcha needs to shine
- People who say Gohan was "ruined" in the Buu arc
- "Mr. Satan sucks! He took all the glory from Vegeta and Goku and he's so annoying!"
- Piccolo is useless after the Cell arc
- People that hate on Videl. What's wrong with Videl?


And now the two worst ones in my opinion

- "Toriyama should retire! He doesn't know what he's doing and should quit because he's old and ruining Dragon Ball!"
- People that only see Dragon Ball (or DBZEE) as a big meme and act like everything TFS says is true to character and story. I love TFS but the "bandwagon" fans that don't understand that it's a parody piss me off a little. Also those Dragonballz Pee animations are fucking stupid and I'm surprised people actually like that crap.

[Mystic Tien]

- People who say Yamcha needs to shine
- "Mr. Satan sucks! He took all the glory from Vegeta and Goku and he's so annoying!"
- Piccolo is useless after the Cell arc
- People that hate on Videl. What's wrong with Videl?

Well, thanks.

So you think that Mr. Satan, being a completely weakling, who doesn't even bother to train, deserves his chance to shine, and Yamcha doesn't? You think that Piccolo was actually very useful in Buu arc, while all he did, trained some kids to do fusion, who not only failed to stop Buu, but also powered up him? And you see nothing wrong with Videl, but see something with Yamcha?

[MajinMan]

- People who say Yamcha needs to shine
- "Mr. Satan sucks! He took all the glory from Vegeta and Goku and he's so annoying!"
- Piccolo is useless after the Cell arc
- People that hate on Videl. What's wrong with Videl?

Well, thanks.

So you think that Mr. Satan, being a completely weakling, who doesn't even bother to train, deserves his chance to shine, and Yamcha doesn't? You think that Piccolo was actually very useful in Buu arc, while all he did, trained some kids to do fusion, who not only failed to stop Buu, but also powered up him? And you see nothing wrong with Videl, but see something with Yamcha?

I don't mean to offend anyone, but Yamcha was designed to be a joke from the start. That's what he is used for and if fans of his character don't understand that, are they really fans of the real Yamcha? I like Yamcha for what he is but he has his place and that is not on top. As for Satan, the joke is that Satan saved the world. It's a gag. Also it's true that Piccolo isn't a fighter in the Buu arc, but he ends up playing pivotal roles in helping train the kids and giving Buu some smarts. To end this off, no, nothings wrong with Yamcha because he is who he is, and that's not a hero.

[Mystic Tien]

I don't mean to offend anyone, but Yamcha was designed to be a joke from the start. That's what he is used for and if fans of his character don't understand that, are they really fans of the real Yamcha? I like Yamcha for what he is but he has his place and that is not on top. As for Satan, the joke is that Satan saved the world. It's a gag. Also it's true that Piccolo isn't a fighter in the Buu arc, but he ends up playing pivotal roles in helping train the kids and giving Buu some smarts. To end this off, no, nothings wrong with Yamcha because he is who he is, and that's not a hero.

He was a hero in an early Dragon Ball, he wasn't just a joke then. It is just that Toriyama tends to turn all his characters in joke with time. Well, just look what he did with Gohan. Gohan is now pretty much a comedic relief as well.

[rereboy]

I don't mean to offend anyone, but Yamcha was designed to be a joke from the start. That's what he is used for and if fans of his character don't understand that, are they really fans of the real Yamcha? I like Yamcha for what he is but he has his place and that is not on top. As for Satan, the joke is that Satan saved the world. It's a gag. Also it's true that Piccolo isn't a fighter in the Buu arc, but he ends up playing pivotal roles in helping train the kids and giving Buu some smarts. To end this off, no, nothings wrong with Yamcha because he is who he is, and that's not a hero.

He was a hero in an early Dragon Ball, he wasn't just a joke then. It is just that Toriyama tends to turn all his characters in joke with time. Well, just look what he did with Gohan. Gohan is now pretty much a comedic relief as well.

Actually, he was treated as a joke and was always used as a tool for humor, measuring stick or progressing the plot.

Right in his introduction, he is not stronger than Goku and has the quirk of "fear of girls".

He decides to steal the Dragon Balls because he wants to get rid of his fears so that he can get married.

His attempts always end up badly, except when it's useful for the plot.

In his most important interventions (Boss Rabbit and Oozaru Goku), Puar was just as important as him, meaning that he doesn't really accomplish much alone.

In the 21st tournament, he was used as measuring stick to build up Jackie Chang and loses easily.

In the Baba tournament, he needed the intervention of Bulma's Boobs to win against the Invisible Man (even though he probably would have won if Baba didn't start to sing), and this is his ONLY major win against an opponent who isn't fodder in a solo fight in the entire series! Right after this, he was humiliated by the Mummy, to build up the Mummy and Goku.

In the 22nd tournament, he was used as a measuring stick to build up Tenshinhan, even though this time he looked more impressive.

In the 23rd tournament, Yamcha has his most impressive fighting moment, managing to impress and slightly hurt Kami with a completely original technique. Yet, despite this, Yamcha is still used for humor in the beginning of the fight and is kind of humiliated by it.

In the battle with the saiyans, Yamcha proves to be superior to the Saibamen, which means that he has impressive power, but he gets cocky and the Saibamen manages to kill him with a kamikaze attack, ending this fight with a tie. This means that Yamcha was once again used to build up the enemy and the stakes of the fight.

And with the cyborgs, Yamcha is once again used to show that the androids are serious business by almost dying at their hands.

In conclusion, Yamcha is basically always used as a tool by the author.