So what exactly is this SSGSS?

[Vegitofaxx]

I mean, what would you call it?

Something shorter and snappier than what they came up with. Infused Super Saiyan God? Full Power Super Saiyan God? Mastered Super Saiyan God? True Super Saiyan God?

To be honest just Super Saiyan God 2 would have been just fine with me.

Y'know, "Infused Super Saiyan God" is the best name for the form I've heard yet. Think imma gonna start calling it that.

[Low Tone G]

For me the best term would be a Godly Super Saiyan. It's basically a Super Saiyan 1 form with a more potent fuel, God power. So GSSJ it's better.

[shonenhikada]

For me the best term would be a Godly Super Saiyan. It's basically a Super Saiyan 1 form with a more potent fuel, God power. So GSSJ it's better.

So is GSSJ 2 possible ?

[Truhan]

I think it has something to do with SSJ2 and SSJ3 putting strain on Goku's resources. If he absorbs God power and turns base, he must have it stored as Ki, so he turns FPSSJ, which doesn't waste it. However, we see him release that power to stop Beerus attack, or in other words, turn SSJG again. SSJGSSJ isn't just a SSJ tranformation multiplying his God Ki, it's pretty much the next step of God Ki, which he had to achieve.

This was taken from another board, and what this guy means is the following:
- Goku with God power absorbed (i.e. at base state) != Goku with God power gathered/released (i.e. turned SSJG);
- SSJ transformation with God power absorbed != SSJG taken to the next level as SSJGSSJ (hence the blue hair).

[Dyno]

So is GSSJ 2 possible ?

Why wouldn't it?

[Low Tone G]

So is GSSJ 2 possible ?

Why wouldn't it?

I think if Toriyama's opinion is still valid about the Super Saiyan 1 form as the others(SSJ2 & 3) are just powered up versions of it and also sap the Saiyan's power and we already know that the SSGSS is also a Super Saiyan 1 form with God Ki, I think Goku and Vegeta will stick with this Blue SSJ and train that the its fullest.

[shonenhikada]

So is GSSJ 2 possible ?

Why wouldn't it?

I think if Toriyama's opinion is still valid about the Super Saiyan 1 form as the others(SSJ2 & 3) are just powered up versions of it and also sap the Saiyan's power and we already know that the SSGSS is also a Super Saiyan 1 form with God Ki, I think Goku and Vegeta will stick with this Blue SSJ and train that the its fullest.

So in short just a god version of this:
http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Full-P ... per_Saiyan

So if SSGSS is 75% of whis power that is a 15% jump from SSG. Hence, SSGSS3 should in fact be stronger than Beerus...RIGHT ????

[Truhan]

Would Goku be able to achieve it though? Just because he can transform into SSJ3 from his base state, it doesn't mean he can reach its equivalent (in terms of look) with God Ki. He could absorb it and transform into SSJ3, but the latter would drain it, so he'd better stick with SSJG SSJ (and whatever he can ascend to after that). The better question is: why don't Vegeta and Goku fuse as SSJG? It's the best way to surpass Beerus.

[Kaboom]

The impression I'm getting is that the Super Saiyan God power can't be increased by further transformation (i.e. SS2 or SS3), only by training, and that SSGSS is just Goku and Vegeta using the Super Saiyan form to channel that godly power a little more effectively.

'Course, that outlook may change once I've actually seen the movie or we just get further information.

[Bullza]

I really don't know why it got any stronger with transformation in the first place.

They've overcomplicated it by involving the Super Saiyan.

[Super Vegetto]

But Vegeta doesn't go SSG,,,he only transforms in SSGSS, i have no idea how power incrise works, but it seams like it's not there and if it was than SSGSS shouldn't have problem against someone like Beerus who didn't completly dominated SSG Goku...

[Blackstripe]

Everyone just assumes base Goku = SSG. There's nothing that suggests this.

Obviously, he's much stronger than he was before. Base Goku definitely >>>> pre-God SSJ3 Goku, without question. But on the level of Super Saiyan God? I don't think so. Yes, he absorbed the God ki, but he was only able to do anything against Beerus in the last movie once he went Super Saiyan (after losing the initial SSG state, that is).

In my opinion, he's much weaker than Super Saiyan God in his base form, and is simply regaining (and surpassing it a bit through training) that power when he uses Mastered Super Saiyan God (my preferred term for Blue Super Saiyan, now). One should keep in mind that "weaker" is relative, though. He's still beyond even Vegito in his base state.

Base = 1
MSSG = 7

That's my view of things.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Everyone just assumes base Goku = SSG. There's nothing that suggests this.

Beerus says in BoG that Goku's power decreased insignificantly, and Toriyama says that Goku doesn't need SSG anymore after absorbing its power, and that's before he achieved SSGSS. Meaning that base Goku is insignificantly weaker than God Goku, and since SSGSS is stronger than base Goku, it means that SSGSS is stronger than SSG.

[shonenhikada]

Everyone just assumes base Goku = SSG. There's nothing that suggests this.

Beerus says in BoG that Goku's power decreased insignificantly, and Toriyama says that Goku doesn't need SSG anymore after absorbing its power, and that's before he achieved SSGSS. Meaning that base Goku is insignificantly weaker than God Goku, and since SSGSS is stronger than base Goku, it means that SSGSS is stronger than SSG.

Isn't Base Form now called Saiyan beyond God.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Isn't Base Form now called Saiyan beyond God.

Yeah. Base with SSG power is called Saiyan beyond God.

[Marlowe89]

Beerus says in BoG that Goku's power decreased insignificantly, and Toriyama says that Goku doesn't need SSG anymore after absorbing its power, and that's before he achieved SSGSS. Meaning that base Goku is insignificantly weaker than God Goku, and since SSGSS is stronger than base Goku, it means that SSGSS is stronger than SSG.

No, that's just bad logic.

If you admit that base Goku is weaker than SSG at all (regardless of a description like "insignificant", which is far too vague anyway) then you've already exposed a weakness in this argument you keep trying to make. It does not logically follow from SSGSS being stronger than base Goku that SSGSS must also somehow be stronger than SSG, particularly since you conceded that base Goku is weaker than SSG. That's just using logical leaps to make an assumption with no evidence to support it. Toriyama's script literally calls the blue Super Saiyan form "a Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan God", which doesn't imply that it's actually stronger than SSG at all - in fact, that sentence specifically implies that those two forms are dead even.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Beerus says in BoG that Goku's power decreased insignificantly, and Toriyama says that Goku doesn't need SSG anymore after absorbing its power, and that's before he achieved SSGSS. Meaning that base Goku is insignificantly weaker than God Goku, and since SSGSS is stronger than base Goku, it means that SSGSS is stronger than SSG.

No, that's just bad logic.

If you admit that base Goku is weaker than SSG at all (regardless of a description like "insignificant", which is far too vague anyway) then you've already exposed a weakness in this argument you keep trying to make. It does not logically follow from SSGSS being stronger than base Goku that SSGSS must also somehow be stronger than SSG, particularly since you conceded that base Goku is weaker than SSG. That's just using logical leaps to make an assumption with no evidence to support it. Toriyama's script literally calls the blue Super Saiyan form "a Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan God", which doesn't imply that it's actually stronger than SSG at all - in fact, that sentence specifically implies that those two forms are dead even.

We know that Super Saiyan God & Saiyan beyond God have a slight difference in power (Beerus says so, and their whole fight show so). We know that Saiyan beyond God & Super Saiyan God SS have a significant difference in power. This means that Super Saiyan God SS & Super Saiyan God have a significant difference in power. It's that simple.

[Marlowe89]

We know that Super Saiyan God & Saiyan beyond God have a slight difference in power (Beerus says so, and their whole fight show so). We know that Saiyan beyond God & Super Saiyan God SS have a significant difference in power. This means that Super Saiyan God SS & Super Saiyan God have a significant difference in power. It's that simple.

Beerus just says that Goku's power didn't decrease too much, and he says this to Super Saiyan Goku (which, again, doesn't say anything about exactly how close base Goku is to SSG). After the absorption of God ki, their fight doesn't show base Goku fighting Beerus anywhere nearly as much as Super Saiyan Goku fighting Beerus. Super Saiyan Goku isn't base Goku.

I find it odd that you would use the phrase "It's that simple" when you're the one outright ignoring the words in Toriyama's script. It doesn't take anything more than basic reading comprehension to understand that SSGSS is called "a Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan God".

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Beerus just says that Goku's power didn't decrease too much, and he says this to Super Saiyan Goku (which, again, doesn't say anything about exactly how close base Goku is to SSG). After the absorption of God ki, their fight doesn't show base Goku fighting Beerus anywhere nearly as much as Super Saiyan Goku fighting Beerus. Super Saiyan Goku isn't base Goku.

He says that Goku's power didn't decrease significantly (he doesn't say it didn't decrease too much), and that is said about the SSG to base change. He doesn't say anything about the base to SS change, meaning that either there is a slight difference in them, or there isn't any at all. Goku doesn't even notice the difference between the 3 forms, which suggests even more that there is barely a difference between these 3 forms.

I find it odd that you would use the phrase "It's that simple" when you're the one outright ignoring the words in Toriyama's script. It doesn't take anything more than basic reading comprehension to understand that it's just Super Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan God.

I'm not ignoring anything. "Super Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan God" doesn't translate into "Super Saiyan God SS is as strong as Super Saiyan God", it just means that Super Saiyan & Super Saiyan God are combined.

We see that Saiyan beyond God (base/SS) is almost the same as SSG in BoG. We see it through the fight, we are told so in the story, even the author himself confirms this in an interview, and it is even symbolized in the FnF manga, and we see in FnF that SSGSS is something even further than this... It really doesn't get any simpler than that.

[Marlowe89]

He says that Goku's power didn't decrease significantly (he doesn't say it didn't decrease too much), and that is said about the SSG to base change. He doesn't say anything about the base to SS change, meaning that either there is a slight difference in them, or there isn't any at all. Goku doesn't even notice the difference between the 3 forms, which suggests even more that there is barely a difference between these 3 forms.

Him saying that it didn't decrease significantly carries the same meaning - the statement implies that Goku lost power since losing the form, but not to the same enormous degree that he would have lost power if he didn't absorb the God ki. And why would he say anything about the base to Super Saiyan change if he didn't make the "didn't lose power significantly" remark in the first place until Goku was already a Super Saiyan?

I'm not ignoring anything. "Super Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan God" doesn't translate into "Super Saiyan God SS is as strong as Super Saiyan God", it just means that Super Saiyan & Super Saiyan God are combined.

The phrase is actually "This Super Saiyan is a Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan God". That doesn't suggest anything about a combination of forms, Goku even specificially says "Saiyan" here as opposed to "Super Saiyan".

We see that Saiyan beyond God (base/SS) is almost the same as SSG in BoG. We see it through the fight, we are told so in the story, even the author himself confirms this in an interview, and it is even symbolized in the FnF manga, and we see in FnF that SSGSS is something even further than this... It really doesn't get any simpler than that.

The fight doesn't definitively show exactly how close base Goku is to SSG considering that he spends more time fighting Beerus in SS, the author just confirmed that Goku doesn't need its power anymore since he absorbed it (for all we know, that could still mean Goku needs SS to draw out its full power), and the only thing that the manga symbolizes is that Goku was tapping into some of SSG's power (a picture doesn't confirm that base Goku is exactly as powerful as SSG). You're drawing conclusions from things that could mean something else entirely.