Dragon Ball Super: TV Ratings Discussion Thread

[ArchedThunder]

If the ratings keep declining... yeah, maybe they shouldn't have started the series with a drawn out retelling of two movies. I'm afraid that the show will either just get canned before Universe 6 or have absolutely terrible animation for every episode because of the low viewership at that point.

[TheGmGoken]

Hype probably died down as it's not really new content. We haven't seen Champa yet we did in the manga.

[Chuquita]

Maybe it was a mistake to give Pilaf Gang an entire episode directly before the first major battle (badly animated major battle or not).

It doesn't help matters that Pilaf's episode had much better animation in it; it makes the audience wonder where the priorities are where Pilaf Gang gets the proper staff/time while Gokû vs Beerus (part 1) gets shafted.

[DragonHermit]

Doraemon and Detective Conan are still on air? Wtfh? Retelling the movies just with shitter animation is the main reason for the drop.

[Chuquita]

Doraemon and Conan are like The Simpsons in terms of institutions at this point. Doraemon's gonna keep going forever and Conan will keep going until the author decides to retire. (I've heard rumors he plans to end the manga once he reaches the same age as the character Doctor Agasa, but I don't know how true this is.)

[alakazam^]

It's in the top 5 (which is basically top 1 or 2 since you know Chibi Maruko-chan, Sazae-san, Doraemon, Conan Meitantei and probably One Piece will always rotate in the first places) and that's totally fine. People should stop overreacting and stop being afraid at every little thing because it's getting obnoxious.

I haven't seen the episode yet but saw some screenshots but even so I very much doubt an apocalipse will happen because of it. Bad animation has been around since forever and fans seem to forget that. It's like Z 121 never happened.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

If the ratings keep declining... yeah, maybe they shouldn't have started the series with a drawn out retelling of two movies. I'm afraid that the show will either just get canned before Universe 6 or have absolutely terrible animation for every episode because of the low viewership at that point.

I highly highly highly doubt that Super is going to get canned. Toriko managed almost 150 episodes, Kai 1.0 managed 97 episodes and even came back in the form of Kai 2.0. Ratings are only one thing that determine success from what I have read merchandise is the biggest, apparently Kai did worse in both categories and that lasted almost 100 episodes.

[Lord Beerus]

Yikes. Quite a drop. Hopefully things pick up next week. But considering the next episode will be less action oriented, I doubt it will.

[Doctor.]

It's not a big deal. It's 5th, a step-up from last week's 7th and it looks like every show decreased, even if the big ones like One Piece and Sazae-san only decreased a bit. Precure dropped almost half, for instance.

It's the first time Yokai Watch came close to overtaking us though. I'm surprised we've been beating it every week.

[TripleRach]

I highly highly highly doubt that Super is going to get canned. Toriko managed almost 150 episodes, Kai 1.0 managed 97 episodes and even came back in the form of Kai 2.0. Ratings are only one thing that determine success from what I have read merchandise is the biggest, apparently Kai did worse in both categories and that lasted almost 100 episodes.

Yeah, it's best to think of kids shows in general as toy commercials, and not just in Japan. Some are more blatant than others (Yu-Gi-Oh, Kamen Rider, Transformers), but it's always something the executives look for.

Super's ratings are pretty impressive compared to most other kids shows, but they're not big enough for the show to ride on that alone, and they probably never will be.

Luckily for us, while we can't affect the TV ratings from overseas, we can import the merchandise.

[irreality]

It's not a big deal. It's 5th, a step-up from last week's 7th and it looks like every show decreased, even if the big ones like One Piece and Sazae-san only decreased a bit. Precure dropped almost half, for instance.

It's the first time Yokai Watch came close to overtaking us though. I'm surprised we've been beating it every week.

Our standing has been pretty stable, regardless. There are shows like Sazae-san, Chibi Maruko-chan, Doraemon and Crayonshin chan that will likely always be among the top 5, depending on whether they are on that week or not. We have been behind One Piece and Detective Conan and ahead of Yokai Watch and Go! Princess Precure. That hasn't changed since episode 1.

[FortuneSSJ]

Retell the movies was a bad idea since day one. They should just have followed Buu Kai ending and make Super take place after EOZ.
Even though Super is fleshing out things better, people want to see original content. Not a retelling from something they just saw some time ago.

Everything would work better:
- Fans would finally had a sequel to DBZ from Toriyama.
- More about the new generation. Especially Pan and Uub Toriyama versions.
- Not stuck in a 10 year gap and maybe we could get an unpredictable ending, because we already know the ending for Super thanks to EOZ...

Everyone would win.
Beerus and Whis could still appear, its not like they would be left out.
Let's just say after Goku and Vegeta learnt to use their God Ki, they returned to their peaceful lives on Earth. The plot would still be about the 12 universes.

[Mystic Tien]

Retell the movies was a bad idea since day one. They should just have followed Buu Kai ending and make Super take place after EOZ.
Even though Super is fleshing out things better, people want to see original content. Not a retelling from something they just saw some time ago.

Everything would work better:
- Fans would finally had a sequel to DBZ from Toriyama.
- More about the new generation. Especially Pan and Uub Toriyama versions
- Not stuck in a 10 year gap and maybe an unpredictable ending. We already know the ending for Super.

Everyone would win.
Beerus and Whis could still appear, its not like they would be left out.
Let's just say after Goku and Vegeta learnt to use their God Ki, they returned to their peaceful lives on Earth. The plot would still be about the 12 universes.

This one, I don't want, given how Toriyama treats females in his series. But in overall, I agree, I don't even care if it contradicts GT or not, at this point, I just want for series to move forward, instead of being stuck in the same place all the time.

I highly highly highly doubt that Super is going to get canned. Toriko managed almost 150 episodes, Kai 1.0 managed 97 episodes and even came back in the form of Kai 2.0. Ratings are only one thing that determine success from what I have read merchandise is the biggest, apparently Kai did worse in both categories and that lasted almost 100 episodes.

Yeah, it's best to think of kids shows in general as toy commercials, and not just in Japan. Some are more blatant than others (Yu-Gi-Oh, Kamen Rider, Transformers), but it's always something the executives look for.

Super's ratings are pretty impressive compared to most other kids shows, but they're not big enough for the show to ride on that alone, and they probably never will be.

Luckily for us, while we can't affect the TV ratings from overseas, we can import the merchandise.

Yu-Gi-Oh from Toei was cancelled after 27 episodes by the way. Air Gear (from them as well) was about the same, as far as I remember.

[MaGyunia]

Retell the movies was a bad idea since day one. They should just have followed Buu Kai ending and make Super take place after EOZ.
Even though Super is fleshing out things better, people want to see original content. Not a retelling from something they just saw some time ago.

Everything would work better:
- Fans would finally had a sequel to DBZ from Toriyama.
- More about the new generation. Especially Pan and Uub Toriyama versions.
- Not stuck in a 10 year gap and maybe we could get an unpredictable ending, because we already know the ending for Super thanks to EOZ...

Everyone would win.
Beerus and Whis could still appear, its not like they would be left out.
Let's just say after Goku and Vegeta learnt to use their God Ki, they returned to their peaceful lives on Earth. The plot would still be about the 12 universes.

The thing is they wanted the (re)introduction of Dragonball to basically pick up at the timing/circumstances in which the general fandom remembers the characters (Goku as a Super Saiya-jin 3, Ultimate Gohan, Vegeta as a Super Saiya-jin 2, Goten and Trunks as kids, etc.). We're basically "stuck" in the 10 year gap generated by the timeskip between episodes 288 and 289 in DBZ.

The ORIGINAL mistake, in my view, was the hasty ending given to DBZ, with those last 3 episodes happening after 10 years. That basically presented them with two alternatives on when exactly to set a new series: either in the 10 year gap, which has the disadvantage of having whatever happens during DBSuper inevitably and eventually lead up to the last Tenkaichi Budokai and the introduction of Uub, or have it placed AFTER the very last episode of DBZ, with everyone grown up, Pan and Bra in existence, and a long, long time having passed since the defeat of Kid Buu, which is still deeply present in everyone's minds when Toriyama came up with the concept of Uub, who's inherently connected to him. One solution for this would be so simply retcon the last 3 episodes of DBZ and make them "inexistent", and basically have DBSuper be placed at whatever timing they choose to (2 years later, 5 years, 10, whatever).

I believe that the reason behind the decision to retell BoG and Fukkatsu no F just 2 years and a few months after they came out, respectively, in the form of arcs within DBSuper in pretty much the exact same circumstances except for a few minor changes and additions was the fact that Toriyama simply wanted to present fans with his untouched, original version of the events depicted in the movies, which he couldn't do due to the time restraints typical of theatrical features, even longer ones. He just had to (re)introduce Beerus, Whis, the concept of Super Saiya-jin God and Golden Freeza. They could have chosen to go another route, have the series start after the movies, rendering them direct canon continuations of the series' timeline, have it take place after the introduction of Uub, have it REPLACE the last 3 episodes of DBZ, among other options, but this is what they've chosen and I don't think we can call it a mistake. The REAL mistake, in my view, was to end DBZ as quickly as possible and have those last 3 episodes placed 10 years after the defeat of Kid Buu. That generated a whole can of worms with which we're still dealing with almost 20 years later.

[DragonHermit]

Either last 3 episodes of Z are cannon or Super is cannon. You can't have both as they're contradicting. Last episodes of Z are officially non cannon at this point.

[FortuneSSJ]

Either last 3 episodes of Z are cannon or Super is cannon. You can't have both as they're contradicting. Last episodes of Z are officially non cannon at this point.

Not really. The manga is always canon. What isn't in the manga is filler. If the creator writes a new story it may be considered canon or both canon/filler.
Officialy is not the right word. People can choose if they want to accept the new stuff or not. I welcome new stuff but I don't intend to change anything.
There's no point after all these years without nothing.

And cannon is a weapon.

[Mystic Tien]

Either last 3 episodes of Z are cannon or Super is cannon. You can't have both as they're contradicting. Last episodes of Z are officially non cannon at this point.

Contradiction don't mean a shit. It can have millions of contradictions, yet if author (or owner of brand) says that it is canon, then it is canon, the opinions of fans really don't matter.

[MaGyunia]

Either last 3 episodes of Z are cannon or Super is cannon. You can't have both as they're contradicting. Last episodes of Z are officially non cannon at this point.

Not really. The manga is always canon. What isn't in the manga is filler. If the creator writes a new story it may be considered canon or both canon/filler.
Officialy is not the right word. People can choose if they want to accept the new stuff or not. I welcome new stuff but I don't intend to change anything.
There's no point after all these years.

And cannon is a weapon.

That's one way to look at it, but there are others. One could argue that canon is whatever doesn't generate plot-holes/inconsistencies/timeline impossibilities (an example would be the Garlic Jr. arc, or Movie 9). I go for this one, otherwise about half of DB and DBZ is non-canon, given how much filler material there is there (as in, scenes which aren't based on the original manga).

The last 3 episodes of DBZ could still remain canon, in that sense, so long as Pan isn't conceived just a few months after the defeat of Kid Buu in DBSuper. Apart from that, there's really nothing that makes it absolutely impossible to have happened, at least so far (even Beerus' and Whis' appearance, the resurrection of Freeza, Goku and Vegeta achieving both Super Saiya-jin God and Super Saiya-jin God Super Saiya-jin and potentially the events of the 6th Universe arc don't contradict the ending of DBZ). Doesn't mean I WANT that last Tenkaichi Budokai and the introduction of Uub to remain canon. I don't, but theoretically, at this point, it still is.

[alakazam^]

That's one way to look at it, but there are others. One could argue that canon is whatever doesn't generate plot-holes/inconsistencies/timeline impossibilities (an example would be the Garlic Jr. arc, or Movie 9). I go for this one, otherwise about half of DB and DBZ is non-canon, given how much filler material there is there (as in, scenes which aren't based on the original manga).

Except that's not the definition of canon. Also, you keep referring to the anime but the manga IS the original work and that should be the basis for any kind of discussion about the story and characters, as well as the highest item in the "canon" hierarchy.

[bleed0range]

I expect the ratings to fluctuate up and down because it's a retelling of the last two movies and that can only keep interest up so long. The fact that it's Dragon Ball and everyone loves Dragon Ball will keep it alive, but so many are just going through the motions waiting on something NEW to happen.