Do you think DBS is a worthy continuation of DB and DBZ?

[TheMikado]

I've been gone for a while and this conversation still managed to somehow circle back to GT vs. Super. lol.

I'd take GT over Super any day.

[Bullza]

It's about doing something new that breaks the mold. This episode was mediocre but it's probably the worst of the search for the black star dragon ball arc.

And what mold did they break by having Trunks dress up in women's clothing to marry an obsess amphibian monster? Thats now what anybody wants to see in Super, ever.

GT just had too many awful episodes in a 64 episode series. At best the series had some "alright episodes". Super has plenty of good episodes, some of them amongst the best in the whole series. It had some poor episodes too but not nearly as many not nearly as bad as what we got in GT episode after episode.

DBS brings back the same villains (with different color schemes)

You've gotta be joking?

GT brought back Frieza and Cell as villains. It brought back Doctor Gero as a villain. Android 17 as a villain. Nappa, Yakon, Android 19 etc were all brought back as a villain. Rildo and Doctor Myuu who were villains in the Black Star Dragon Balls saga were brought back for the Super 17 saga.

Even Baby spent most of his time as Vegeta making him sort of a villain again.

uses the same tournament format over and over again. That's why people enjoyed the Zamasu arc the most. That's 1 good arc.

The Tournament of Power is nothing at all like any other other Tournament we've ever had and you know it. The Universe 6 Tournament was actually more like the Fortuneteller Baba one so nothing alike.

Still better than the Tournament in GT where Goku was beaten by a little kid.

Pushing characters away into the background isn't a bad thing.

It is when they start doing it with all of them. The series had a good cast of characters besides Goku between Roshi, Krillin, Tien, Yamcha, Chiaotzu, Piccolo and Gohan and others.

In the end it was just all about the Saiyans and these characters were hardly even showing up anymore even Bulma didn't do much of anything towards the end.

Super has brought a bunch of these characters back and given them more attention than they have had in many many years like Krillin, Roshi, Tien, Android 17 and 18 etc. Roshi didn't do anything at all throughout all of Z and GT and he was one of the better characters.

[Son Vegito]

The big fear about Dragonball now is it never ends, and turns into the next Pokemon, Simpsons, etc. that goes on indefinitely. But Dragonball is not that type of show. There's time skips, characters age, and the show has plots that leads to conclusions.

The only way I'd accept Super going on for years is if they move on from the current cast and focus on the new younger generation.

It is in the same category as them. Yes characters do age, but it's about milking the franchise like Yu-Gi-Oh! Bringing out new series in order to promote the newer cards. In the past it was the same with Digimon.

I do agree that they are actually putting some effort to continue the plot overall, and I'm pretty sure it could've been decent if Toriyama drew the manga again and they'd base it on that, as well as the tone it had in the 90s. But as it seems now, this series will go on forever as long as it stays popular. Toriyama's plot outlines will stop at some given point.

[Saturnine]

It's a one episode filler that's meant to be part of a search for the dragonball adventure. Speaking of unnecessary charades, Goku could've beaten almost every fodder in the ToP if he went Blue. He could've beaten Black in his first encounter if he went Blue and Frieza if he went Blue. If you're okay with some of the things that Super does, suspending your disbelief for one filler episode that doesn't take itself seriously shouldn't be too hard. I enjoyed the episode and found it to be better "filler" than Slime Vegeta.

Ok, and what are your criteria for determining what in GT was "filler" and what wasn't? To my knowledge, the entirety of GT "counted", in the context of GT itself at least, since there was no material that was being adapted. GT was its own thing. Don't try to discount this as "filler", just because you might like it less. And for the record - I actually don't mind GT all that much right until the end of the Baby arc - the stuff that actually made me angry is what happens afterwards, with all the horrible breaches of established rules, such as that whole "villains coming back from hell" debacle, or the ending. The first arc of GT was badly done, boring and had horrible attempts at humor, but at least it didn't break any established precepts of the DB universe, so I mind it much less than Super 17 and the Shadow Dragons.

[Timetraveller]

What do I determine was "filler"? It lasted one episode....The same criteria we use for Super. Technically it's all canon since there's no manga or material being adapted. Is Slime Vegeta canon to you? Is Barry Kahn canon to you? Is Jaco's space adventures canon? The point was it lasted one episode and wasn't meant to be taken seriously.

If you can accept that Roshi did offscreen training and is strong enough to be relevant again (and was holding back) or that Trunks can learn the mafuba in 10 seconds and can go from ssj to Fused Zamasu level in one jump, suspending your disbelief for a 6 episode mini arc is easy.

[Saturnine]

What do I determine was "filler"? It lasted one episode....The same criteria we use for Super. Technically it's all canon since there's no manga or material being adapted. Is Slime Vegeta canon to you? Is Barry Kahn canon to you? Is Jaco's space adventures canon? The point was it lasted one episode and wasn't meant to be taken seriously.

If you can accept that Roshi did offscreen training and is strong enough to be relevant again (and was holding back) or that Trunks can learn the mafuba in 10 seconds and can go from ssj to Fused Zamasu level in one jump, suspending your disbelief for a 6 episode mini arc is easy.

Nah. Nothing Super ever did felt as obnoxious as Goku, Trunks and Pan falling from the sky twice because they apparently forgot they could fly. I know this wasn't meant to be such a big deal, but the execution by the writers sure made it so. Also, don't like Super's power scaling? How do you like Mutchy pwning SSj Goku, and then getting instantly pwned by a blast from base Trunks then?

[Timetraveller]

What do I determine was "filler"? It lasted one episode....The same criteria we use for Super. Technically it's all canon since there's no manga or material being adapted. Is Slime Vegeta canon to you? Is Barry Kahn canon to you? Is Jaco's space adventures canon? The point was it lasted one episode and wasn't meant to be taken seriously.

If you can accept that Roshi did offscreen training and is strong enough to be relevant again (and was holding back) or that Trunks can learn the mafuba in 10 seconds and can go from ssj to Fused Zamasu level in one jump, suspending your disbelief for a 6 episode mini arc is easy.

Nah. Nothing Super ever did felt as obnoxious as Goku, Trunks and Pan falling from the sky twice because they apparently forgot they could fly. I know this wasn't meant to be such a big deal, but the execution by the writers sure made it so. Also, don't like Super's power scaling? How do you like Mutchy pwning SSj Goku, and then getting instantly pwned by a blast from base Trunks then?

I don't know but having U6 transform due to back tingles is pretty obnoxious or Goku treating the ToP like it's kid's birthday party and forgetting he can transform and teleport.

How did I feel watching a one episode filler character get beaten by base Trunks? I didn't like it but then the episode ended and they moved on. It was almost as bad as Vegeta slapping around SSJ3 Gotenks in base or Roshi (who retired and should have a power level of 180) beat Tien. Or SSB disappointing in every fight. Maybe SSJ1 Goku was holding back and gauging his enemy's strength? That's the excuse people love to use in Super right? And in the Super manga, isn't SSJ2 Trunks stronger than SSJ3 Goku?

[Timetraveller]

And what mold did they break by having Trunks dress up in women's clothing to marry an obsess amphibian monster? Thats now what anybody wants to see in Super, ever.

That's more like it! An actual discussion. I said in my comment that it was probably the worst of that arc because the general concept had been done before in the Oolong arc. What mold did they break? These episodes explored mature, darker themes that aren't typical of Toriyama's work. Themes like forced marriage (which is prevalent in third world countries) or religion. In Super, we literally have a tournament over food. Toriyama's a gag writer and without his editors, it shows.

GT just had too many awful episodes in a 64 episode series. At best the series had some "alright episodes". Super has plenty of good episodes, some of them amongst the best in the whole series. It had some poor episodes too but not nearly as many not nearly as bad as what we got in GT episode after episode.

This is subjective. I disagree but I'm not going to try to convince you you're wrong.

You've gotta be joking?

GT brought back Frieza and Cell as villains. It brought back Doctor Gero as a villain. Android 17 as a villain. Nappa, Yakon, Android 19 etc were all brought back as a villain. Rildo and Doctor Myuu who were villains in the Black Star Dragon Balls saga were brought back for the Super 17 saga.

In a mini arc that lasted 6 episode and as a side plot (not the main plot). Kind of like the episode where all the villains come back in the magic forest but the Super 17 arc had MUCH, MUCH better animation and writing.

The Tournament of Power is nothing at all like any other other Tournament we've ever had and you know it. The Universe 6 Tournament was actually more like the Fortuneteller Baba one so nothing alike.

Still better than the Tournament in GT where Goku was beaten by a little kid.

Sure, it's a "battle royale". Except for 90% of the characters are fodder and they're just buying time for when the real fights start. More one vs one fighting. No one wants to see Tien get treated the way he did in 106.

It is when they start doing it with all of them. The series had a good cast of characters besides Goku between Roshi, Krillin, Tien, Yamcha, Chiaotzu, Piccolo and Gohan and others.

In the end it was just all about the Saiyans and these characters were hardly even showing up anymore even Bulma didn't do much of anything towards the end.

Super has brought a bunch of these characters back and given them more attention than they have had in many many years like Krillin, Roshi, Tien, Android 17 and 18 etc. Roshi didn't do anything at all throughout all of Z and GT and he was one of the better characters.

Again, you can't expect a series with over 500 episodes use the same characters over and over again. When Ash from Pokemon moves to a new region, he's still the main character but he meets new people. His old friends will still make cameos here and there. It's about keeping the show fresh. DBZ did it with Tien, Roshi, Krillin, Yamcha, Launch, Chiaotzu, Commander Tao, Shen, Yajirobe and the list goes on and on. It's just what anime do. Super bringing them back is more fan service than anything else. Roshi's back and stronger than ever due to offscreen training. This doesn't make any sense in universe since Roshi's retired and hasn't fought since DB but he's back! Tien's back too but we don't like him so he's fodder. Sometimes you have to accept that the story won't have your favourite secondary characters any more.

[Bullza]

These episodes explored mature, darker themes that aren't typical of Toriyama's work. Themes like forced marriage (which is prevalent in third world countries) or religion. In Super, we literally have a tournament over food. Toriyama's a gag writer and without his editors, it shows.

That was one of GT's biggest problems. It never felt like something Toriyama would ever do, that wasn't typical of his work was why it failed as a continuation of Z. Super does feel like it was something Toriyama came up with so it is a more natural follow up.

The things that happened in GT is not just something he would have ever have come up with himself. The tone was all wrong because you say it explored dark themes like forced marriage but it did it in a way that was written for 5 year olds with Trunks cross dressing.

In a mini arc that lasted 6 episode and as a side plot (not the main plot). Kind of like the episode where all the villains come back in the magic forest but the Super 17 arc had MUCH, MUCH better animation and writing.

The illusions in the forest lasted about 10 minutes in the one episode. Six episodes is a lot longer and they were the side plot of the saga yes but the main plot involved Android 17, a villain that they reused from Z.

Sure, it's a "battle royale". Except for 90% of the characters are fodder and they're just buying time for when the real fights start. More one vs one fighting. No one wants to see Tien get treated the way he did in 106.

Doesn't matter, it's still completely different. Obviously most of them were going to be fodder when there were 80 of them. How dragged out would the thing have been if that wasn't the case? Even the old Tournaments with less fighters always had fodder involved.

We don't know how what it'll come down to. Could be different be one vs one fights or something else. It hasn't been that straightforward so far.

When Ash from Pokemon moves to a new region, he's still the main character but he meets new people.

But in Dragon Ball they got rid of people faster than they brought in new characters. Where they were a whole bunch of completely different characters involved in Dragon Ball and the Saiyan saga, by the series end it focused on a far fewer amount and they were just Saiyans.

GT even worse so because it was really all Goku, with Pan (the worst anime character ever) and Trunks mostly being useless. Otherwise Vegeta showed up in the last few episodes.

It needed to expand the cast. It's probably fan service bit people do like these characters and always complained how they how had become useless and do nothing. So for them to actually get Krillin, Tien, Roshi and the Androids involved is good because otherwise the whole thing would just revolve around Goku and Vegeta constantly.

[Saturnine]

I don't know but having U6 transform due to back tingles is pretty obnoxious or Goku treating the ToP like it's kid's birthday party and forgetting he can transform and teleport.

There is an explanation for that - stamina conservation. You may or may not like it, but Goku has to last 48 minutes. Just recall how eventful even 5 minutes on Namek was, this is 48. I agree that this is a somewhat forced drama-preserving handicap, but there is more than one acceptable reason to justify that.

How did I feel watching a one episode filler character get beaten by base Trunks? I didn't like it but then the episode ended and they moved on.

Again, no such thing as filler in GT. Either all of it is, or none of it is. Stop using that term.Mutchy was a short-lived villain, yes, but every slightest subplot did count in GT and the way his defeat was handled was just unforgivable.

It was almost as bad as Vegeta slapping around SSJ3 Gotenks in base

It wasn't "almost" as bad, it was way worse. Base Vegeta pwning SSj3 Gotenks was a mix-up by the writers, who wrote Vegeta as though he still had SSj God power in base. This whole thing is a mess, but there was a clear change of direction from the RoF arc, as early as the U6 tournament. Why do you think the "two base theory" was so hotly debated? Anyway, that at least provides an explanation for Vegeta being so strong. Back in RoF he definitely was, he'd have kicked SSj3 Gotenks' ass all the same.

or Roshi (who retired and should have a power level of 180) beat Tien

The show did address this quite directly, even Goku said he had been training in secret. He is being written as someone who still develops, there is nothing wrong with that. You're just making an assumption that his power should be 180, even though he was shown strong enough to handle Freeza's mooks back in RoF. This is your weakest argument so far, you're saying that "he should be weak because he retired, and that's it". How do you know that he didn't have an epiphany one day and decided he was way, way too weak compared to the rest, and felt embarrassed about it or something? That's called character development.

Or SSB disappointing in every fight. Maybe SSJ1 Goku was holding back and gauging his enemy's strength? That's the excuse people love to use in Super right? And in the Super manga, isn't SSJ2 Trunks stronger than SSJ3 Goku?

SSB never disappointed in any serious fight that something depended on. Goku was able out last Golden Freeza, then he was able to stand up to Hit, whose power is downright broken, then he had a good showing against both Goku Black and Zamasu. You're only complaining about sparrings that didn't matter, just because it feels wrong to you that 17 and Gohan could match Goku. And what's wrong with saying that he can suppress himself, anyway? He was directly shown to be able to do it when he mastered Super Saiyan back in the Cell Games arc. SSJ Blue is supposed to have perfect ki control, there's nothing implausible about that. SSJ Blue has been the workhorse transformation for the majority of Super, just because Goku doesn't completely fodderize everyone left and right doesn't mean it's disappointing. You have to look at the other side of the medal - Goku beating everyone effortlessly would have made SSj Blue look better, but it would also have made the story worse and less exciting. The struggle to overcome obstacles is what pushes this story forward.

As for SSj2 Trunks being as strong as SSj3 Goku (not stronger, equal) in the manga - well, you have to blame Toyotaro for that, he came up with this. But you can't act like it wasn't addressed by the author, Trunks specifically stated that he trained to improve his SSj2. That might feel wrong to you, but to me personally it makes sense, since in my eyes SSj2 had shown a greater power than just 2x in the past, most notably with kid Gohan himself.

[Timetraveller]

These episodes explored mature, darker themes that aren't typical of Toriyama's work. Themes like forced marriage (which is prevalent in third world countries) or religion. In Super, we literally have a tournament over food. Toriyama's a gag writer and without his editors, it shows.

That was one of GT's biggest problems. It never felt like something Toriyama would ever do, that wasn't typical of his work was why it failed as a continuation of Z. Super does feel like it was something Toriyama came up with so it is a more natural follow up.

The things that happened in GT is not just something he would have ever have come up with himself. The tone was all wrong because you say it explored dark themes like forced marriage but it did it in a way that was written for 5 year olds with Trunks cross dressing.

It's actually the same reason so many people dislike Super and why it fails as a continuation of Z. It tries to use the characters of Z with the writing style of something from early Dragonball, which was much more predicated on comedy. DBZ doesn't have a massive following because of its comedy. The fate of multiple universes is on the line here and Goku and co. are treating it like it's a game. They see first-hand universes be erased and the next episode it's another gag fight with illogical decisions. There was a tournament between Gods of Destruction that was about food. It lacks the seriousness of DBZ which would be fine if the comedy elements were on point but it's the same food gags and Pilaf hijinks or Goku being childish over and over again.

Anyway, that's my point of view. You can see why many people enjoy GT and dislike Super. It's all subjective. I thought GT was more mature, had better consistency with power scaling and better replicated the vibes of DBZ. The overall quality of animation was better or at least more consistent as well imo.

[Saturnine]

It's actually the same reason so many people dislike Super and why it fails as a continuation of Z. It tries to use the characters of Z with the writing style of something from early Dragonball, which was much more predicated on comedy.

Dragonball had a good balance of comedy and drama in it, and in many regards it was a better show than Z. Funny that you bring it up, since many people (wrongly) assume that GT's first 15 episodes were so badly received for the precise reason that they tried to emulate Dragonball. I personally find this evaluation wrong, because they had very, very little to do with Dragonball - if they had, they'd have been received much more favorably.

I do realize that Super has got too much levity for the tastes of many, but let's not act as if there is no darkness and grime in it too. The Zamasu arc was pretty dark as a whole, and the erasures during the ToP, particularly of U10, were some of the saddest moments the franchise has ever had. The writers made sure of that. So all in all - I find it hard to believe that you would rather have the Freeza or Cell arcs all over again. They were the best Z had to offer, that's for sure, but the combination of light-hearted and dark facets of the franchise that Super is giving us now ain't that bad either.

DBZ doesn't have a massive following because of its comedy. The fate of multiple universes is on the line here and Goku and co. are treating it like it's a game.

Because that's what Goku does, lol. He fights for fun and excitement. Also, he's supremely confident in his and his team's abilities, so what, you'd rather have him wear a poker face all the time and leer menacingly at his enemies while spewing out heroic speeches? If you think that's what Goku's character is, you've probably watched too much FUNi dub.

They see first-hand universes be erased and the next episode it's another gag fight with illogical decisions. There was a tournament between Gods of Destruction that was about food. It lacks the seriousness of DBZ which would be fine if the comedy elements were on point but it's the same food gags and Pilaf hijinks or Goku being childish over and over again.

The humor seen in Super is much, much closer to Toriyama's brand of humor than GT's clumsy, generic situational jokes. Not to mention they also include pervy stuff and dialogue, such as Bulma's saggy boobs or Monaka's nipples. This does feel right on point, I'm sorry it doesn't for you. As for the tournament between the GoD's being for food - what's so wrong with that? They're the most powerful entities in their universes, who said they could not be petty? The tournaments back in OG DB were about nothing more than the championship title and 500k Zeni, and no one seemed to mind. The stakes aren't important in these events, the fights are. Also, from Goku and Vegeta's perspective, it was a chance to prove themselves against warriors from another universe. So what if it was really about food?

Want big stakes? Check out the Zamasu arc. The stakes in that arc have literally never been bigger in the entirety of the Dragonball franchise. All the conflicts in GT, which were mainly constrained to Earth, were simply trivial compared to this. And don't even get me started on the stakes of the ToP arc.

Anyway, that's my point of view. You can see why many people enjoy GT and dislike Super.

I know and accept that some people prefer GT from Super, but I don't think the points you made help the notion in any way. I had an answer for every point you brought up that still speaks in Super's favor in these regards.

It's all subjective. I thought GT was more mature, had better consistency with power scaling and better replicated the vibes of DBZ. The overall quality of animation was better or at least more consistent as well imo.

Serious does not equal mature. Maturity comes with knowing that sometimes it's good to have a laugh, and that is something that always was part of DB's identity, and something that both the theatrical movies and GT sorely lacked.

The power scaling was downright terrible in the first arc, where Goku and company appeared to be holding back for no justifiable reason at all, except to make a forced story. Don Kee, Zoonama, the Paras and all those nobodies should not, under any circumstances, pose any sort of obstacle to a guy who have fought and beaten fucking Majin Buu, period. The whole cross-dressing thing was a complete miss, since Goku, or even Pan could realistically punch the shit outta Zoonama before he even realized what was happening. Super does suffer from inconsistencies in power scaling, but it's a bigger product than GT and it's just a classic example of having too many writers with too little communication. It's a shame, but since the series is still ongoing, we can still hope it'll be fixed.

As for replicating the vibes of DBZ - I agree about parts of GT doing that, particularly the Baby arc. It was overall quite good, and did remind me of Z. But is replication always better than trying new stuff? Super has got a different identity than both its predecessor series, its atmosphere is more cosmic, laid back and grandiose. Which is what it should be - every series having its own identity provides diversity of entertainment. You complain that Super supposedly rehashes everything, while it's GT that does so in reality - stuff from villain designs to villain deaths are all nods to Toei's previous work. Baby getting blasted into the Sun? Yeah, we haven't seen THAT one before... twice. You praise GT for feeling like Z, and yet you deride Super for not being innovative enough, while letting this slip for GT (or actually thinking it in fact was more innovative, lol). Can't do that, bro.

[Timetraveller]

I don't have anything else to add to the debate so this is my last take on this. Agree to disagree.

The Zamasu arc was great and most people's favorite from Super so far. It had the potential to be the best arc if it wasn't for the way they handled the last few episodes (the execution not the ideas).

Goku can also be serious like when Zamasu revealed that he killed his family in the other timeline or when Goku threatened the Supreme Kai. The stakes have never been higher and if he loses, his family and everyone he cares about will be gone. Fighting for fun and excitement doesn't make much sense with so much on the line. It's not two extremes (totally careless and oblivious to the consequences or leering menacingly at his enemies). How about meeting somewhere in the middle?

For every point I brought up, you acknowledged that Super did the same thing but you tried to justify it. For example, why shouldn't Roshi get stronger? He's retired and the characters were supposed to have surpassed him at the beginning of DBZ. He's 300 years old and at his peak wasn't strong enough to beat king Piccolo. You can't just throw in secret training when for 300 episodes of DBZ he did nothing but sit on the couch and watch tv. Tien has trained all his life and fought nearly every major villain. He trained with king kai and can do Roshi's strongest moves in addition to his own. Secret training or anything offscreen is a lazy way to make irrelevant characters relevant again. Besides, there's no secret training that Roshi could have done by himself that would have matched training that everyone else has done.

DB hasn't just had one identity. The end of DB and DBZ was a complete shift from DB. People who watched DB are a lot older now. Poorly placed food gags do not make the show mature.

Super does do a few original things like erasing a whole universe and the female saiyans so they do get points for that. The only problem was the execution. To make them strong enough to be a threat they simplified the iconic transformation. Kale is an attempt to bring fan favorite Broly into the universe and another favorite Freeza is back. I guess the word I'm looking for is fan service. If making a popular show was that easy GT should've been rewritten as DB Heroes.

[BlueBasilisk]

But in Dragon Ball they got rid of people faster than they brought in new characters. Where they were a whole bunch of completely different characters involved in Dragon Ball and the Saiyan saga, by the series end it focused on a far fewer amount and they were just Saiyans.

GT even worse so because it was really all Goku, with Pan (the worst anime character ever) and Trunks mostly being useless. Otherwise Vegeta showed up in the last few episodes.

GT went further and killed off Piccolo and Buu for good without bringing in any new heroes. I still think Ledgic and Nova Shenron should have joined the Goku Gang.

[gohan_black]

YES I DO THINK ITS A WORTHY CONTINUATION STARTING FROM THE UNIVERSE 6 TOURNAMENT.

[Bryesque]

Absolutely.

It grows the concept in a terrific and natural way, IMO -- DB was about Goku exploring the world, DBZ took him to space and beyond the mortal realm, and DBS goes even deeper exploring the multiverse and its deities. And it's introduced a lot of great new characters that'll be remembered as fondly as the classic DB cast -- Beerus and Whis in particular are some of the best DB characters period, as far as I'm concerned. And it's making a point to keep most of the wider cast involved and relevant instead of pushing every non-Saiyan character off the board, and has delivered some really solid character moments and interactions for most of the cast.

And some might disagree on this, but I love that Super is combining the over-the-top battles and intensity of DBZ with the fun and humour of DB. I think it strikes a good balance overall, and represents the entirety of the franchise really well that way.

I'm not saying it's perfect... but neither were DB or DBZ. All of the series have had moments of iffy to bad animation, a good few repetitive plots and concepts, and Z's pacing was downright awful at points. Super's flaws are pretty well in line with most of the series' flaws as a whole, and like DB and DBZ, its strengths easily overcome those flaws.

[sintzu]

It's actually the same reason so many people dislike Super and why it fails as a continuation of Z. It tries to use the characters of Z with the writing style of something from early Dragonball, which was much more predicated on comedy. DBZ doesn't have a massive following because of its comedy.

You can see why many people enjoy GT and dislike Super.

The overall quality of animation was better or at least more consistent as well imo.

DB as a whole (Toriyama's original manga) was a mixture of drama and comedy, even during its most serious arcs like Namek but unlike GT and Super, Toriyama knew how to do it without taking away from one or the other.

I think the main reason some prefer it is because GT was designed to tell a story and one that ended Goku's story (it didn't do a good job but at least it tried). Super is designed to go on forever to sell merchandise first while the story is designed around the merchadise, not the other way around which is how things should be.

This is true which isn't just a GT thing but most 90's anime.

[Saturnine]

It's actually the same reason so many people dislike Super and why it fails as a continuation of Z. It tries to use the characters of Z with the writing style of something from early Dragonball, which was much more predicated on comedy. DBZ doesn't have a massive following because of its comedy.

You can see why many people enjoy GT and dislike Super.

The overall quality of animation was better or at least more consistent as well imo.

DB as a whole (Toriyama's original manga) was a mixture of drama and comedy, even during its most serious arcs like Namek but unlike GT and Super, Toriyama knew how to do it without taking away from one or the other.

I think the main reason some prefer it is because GT was designed to tell a story and one that ended Goku's story (it didn't do a good job but at least it tried). Super is designed to go on forever to sell merchandise first while the story is designed around the merchadise, not the other way around which is how things should be.

This is true which isn't just a GT thing but most 90's anime.

Yeah, well let's not kid ourselves - playing games always was the most fun part of Dragon Ball, so all these new characters we got will dramatically expand the cast of many new games that are going to be made in the future. Great thing if you ask me

[MaskedRider]

It's actually the same reason so many people dislike Super and why it fails as a continuation of Z. It tries to use the characters of Z with the writing style of something from early Dragonball, which was much more predicated on comedy. DBZ doesn't have a massive following because of its comedy.

You can see why many people enjoy GT and dislike Super.

The overall quality of animation was better or at least more consistent as well imo.

DB as a whole (Toriyama's original manga) was a mixture of drama and comedy, even during its most serious arcs like Namek but unlike GT and Super, Toriyama knew how to do it without taking away from one or the other.

I think the main reason some prefer it is because GT was designed to tell a story and one that ended Goku's story (it didn't do a good job but at least it tried). Super is designed to go on forever to sell merchandise first while the story is designed around the merchadise, not the other way around which is how things should be.

This is true which isn't just a GT thing but most 90's anime.

I'm not saying Super is free from the merchandising critique with this and also a heads up with that I'm not as knowledgeable in the development of how GT came to be but it did air like a week after Z aired its final episode which comes off more as piggy backing off the success of Z versus the movies coming out to see if there is still interest for audiences to consume more Dragon Ball and Super coming out to deliver on said interest. To be fair, it did come out due to the success of RoF so its not like it can get away from the piggy backing argument. I'm not familiar with GT's time period and the hows and whys.

[sintzu]

Yeah, well let's not kid ourselves - playing games always was the most fun part of Dragon Ball, so all these new characters we got will dramatically expand the cast of many new games that are going to be made in the future. Great thing if you ask me

For sure, the games were dying before Super but now they have countless roads to take to keep things fresh. I do hope in the future we'll get a cinimatic game like Naruto's storm series. A remastered BT3 would also be great.

I'm not as knowledgeable in the development of how GT came to be but it did air like a week after Z aired its final episode which comes off more as piggy backing off the success of Z.

The movies came out to see if there is still interest for audiences to consume more Dragon Ball and Super coming out to deliver on said interest.

I'm not familiar with GT's time period and the hows and whys.

That's exactly why it was made, Jump's sales were at an all time high during the Buu arc so of course they wanting to take advantage of it with a new series.

Both Super and GT were produced to capitalize on the success of previous works (the Buu arc for GT and the 2 movies for Super).

I don't know everything but when it came to Ssj4, the producers didn't want it because they thought there were too many forms already but were told to make it happen by shuishia so unlike Super, GT's staff focused on telling a story while Super's focuses on selling merchandise.

Don't get me wrong, GT's story was a mess but at least it didn't feel like a toy and card commercial and instead was a continuation and closure to DB's story.