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[sintzu]

That wasn't the arc GT chose to emulate. They chose the arc that if I recall was almost cancelled.

Lastly, people's expectations can change.

True but that was a really good arc IMO but by that time people's expectations for the franchise had changed.

True, but it's very unlikely once a brand is so well known for being a certain thing. Why would you even risk going against everyone's expectations and demands like that anyway ?

In your analogy, what's the chocolate ice cream?

I mean if your business is known for that then decide to drop it out of nowhere, chances are people are going to move away from you cause they already have their Strawberry form somewhere else. If people want a certain thing, they'll go to who does it best and who they're familiar with, not to something trying to copy it.

DB on paper could make a really god slice of life movie but everyone will know it could've made an even better action one. Look at Resident evil when it tried to be the next big acton franchise, people ignoared it and went to who did it first like Call of Duty and Gears of War.

[Bullza]

I said there are more personal stakes. For instance, Logan isn't about stopping the end of the world, it's about his one last ride and saving his daughter.

And also saving a whole bunch of mutant children from being slaughtered by soldiers. It also had Wolverine and Professor X dying in it. Things in that movie mattered. The Universe 6 sagas story did not matter.

It was also Hugh Jackman's last Wolverine movie which was used as a selling point.

It was okay. And what basis do you have for saying it was quite heavily criticized?

You see people all the time criticising the fact that they wasted about 10 minutes of the movie on a pointless Pilaf subplot that did nothing for the greater story. Many reviews found on YouTube had people criticising the weak middle section of the movie.

It's certainly not the thing that people enjoyed most about it. Any criticism I have seen for that movie has been with the middle, like the bingo scene.

The story about the list of agents was dropped about halfway through the movie and it became all about trying to save M. Hell, he couldn't even do that, but it's still one of the best Bond movies and one of the most successful.

Right so the stakes there was M's life. Of course she died in the movie so once again things in that movie actually mattered. It wasn't a pointless waste of time.

It should also be noted that the 21st Budokai was when DB began to rise in popularity, and that wasn't the arc GT chose to emulate. They chose the arc that if I recall was almost cancelled.

Yeah when was when the series was starting off, it evolved over time to become more serious and with bigger consequences which is what they always went with in the movies. Also the Black Star Dragon Ball saga was universally hated so them emulating that's as the worst decision ever.

Again if these things didn't matter and weren't a selling point then why does every single Dragon Ball Z without fail do it anyway? Every movie has either the planet or certain characters life at stake.

Just like every single superhero movie ever made. It obviously sells and it obviously requires it or they wouldn't do it would they? You say they don't need it yet they all do it without fail because otherwise you have nothing, you're just wasting your time watching a movie where nothing even matters in it.

[ABED]

Why am I doing this if you won't actually read my posts? I didn't say end of the world stakes don't matter, just that they don't matter as much as you claim. They don't matter as much as the personal stakes of the characters. You can up the stakes all you want, but if the audience doesn't care, then it's meaningless if the world is in peril. Now stop creating strawmen.

Why would you even risk going against everyone's expectations and demands like that anyway ?

But expectations do change. They constantly change. Hell, in DB they changed, and yet you can't change them again? You can risk change if you have a story you want to tell. If it's good, people will go along with it. If not, people often become bored by the same old crap. And I'm not talking about making a movie about a slice of life. I'm saying to make the stakes of the story smaller. Making it about a tournament can work.

To an extent, people expect things from DB, like action, which they would get, but they mostly expect to be entertained, however that happens, as long as they think it's good, that's what matters, not if they DB heroes save the world.

I think this is a discussion worthy of its own thread.

[Bullza]

I didn't say end of the world stakes don't matter, just that they don't matter as much as you claim. They don't matter as much as the personal stakes of the characters.

I didn't say that you said that. Personal stakes depend. Goku wanting to win a Tournament just because he would be happy to win for himself isn't interesting and wouldn't sell a big movie.

It's not enough. The planet doesn't need to be at stake but something has to matter in the movie in order to get you to want to pay to see what happens.

I'm saying to make the stakes of the story smaller. Making it about a tournament can work.

But the Universe 6 Tournament didn't have smaller stakes. It had zero stakes. Winning was that unimportant that Goku said it didn't matter if they did lose, simply gave up in the middle of it and Hit just let the other team win.

[ABED]

They matter to the character. Goku's desire for victory matters to him and by extension, the audience.

Why would you use a Youtube comment section as proof of anything?

[Bullza]

They matter to the character. Goku's desire for victory matters to him and by extension, the audience.

Why would you use a Youtube comment section as proof of anything?

Not enough to pay good money for it, he's won fights over and over again. Winning a couple more isn't going to get people interested enough to buy a ticket.

And what about the YouTube comment section?

[ABED]

They matter to the character. Goku's desire for victory matters to him and by extension, the audience.

Why would you use a Youtube comment section as proof of anything?

Not enough to pay good money for it, he's won fights over and over again. Winning a couple more isn't going to get people interested enough to buy a ticket.

And what about the YouTube comment section?

He's saved the world again and again, seeing it again won't get them to buy a ticket.

"Many reviews found on YouTube had people criticising the weak middle section of the movie."
Youtube comments are not evidence of anything.

[Bullza]

He's saved the world again and again, seeing it again won't get them to buy a ticket.

That's not what the main selling point was for those movies. That's just something that drives the plot and makes what is happening in the movie matter. Resurrection F wasnt about Frieza coming to Earth and then them having a fair fight and then they'd agree nicely to go separate ways after the fight regardless of who wins.

"Many reviews found on YouTube had people criticising the weak middle section of the movie."
Youtube comments are not evidence of anything.

I said reviews, actual videos of people reviewing the movie. Not random comments.

[ABED]

He's saved the world again and again, seeing it again won't get them to buy a ticket.

That's not what the main selling point was for those movies. That's just something that drives the plot and makes what is happening in the movie matter. Resurrection F wasnt about Frieza coming to Earth and then them having a fair fight and then they'd agree nicely to go separate ways after the fight regardless of who wins.

"Many reviews found on YouTube had people criticising the weak middle section of the movie."
Youtube comments are not evidence of anything.

I said reviews, actual videos of people reviewing the movie. Not random comments.

Those videos aren't any better. The people in the theater I saw the movie with loved the stuff with Pilaf. They were laughing their asses off. Those impressions matter more because they bought tickets to see the movie.

Putting the Earth in danger didn't make Resurrection F matter.

[Bullza]

The people in the theater I saw the movie with loved the stuff with Pilaf. They were laughing their asses off. Those impressions matter more because they bought tickets to see the movie.

They're people who saw the movie just the same. There's people on here who have made the same criticisms, Sintzu made it as well above. A lot of people of criticized it.

The movie didn't really have much of a story to begin with and instead of making it better and more interesting they just waste time on silly antics.

Putting the Earth in danger didn't make Resurrection F matter.

No that was more so Frieza wanting revenge and him coming to Earth in the hopes of trying to kill the main characters. That's what mattered. There's no story at all if it wasn't for that.

[Asura]

A movie solely centered on U6 with Hit, Frost, Cabba, Caulifla, Kale, and Champa would be awesome. Throw in the whole U6 team and expand on their characters of what they're doing before the ToP arc. Would be cool to give Cabba some character depth, and see what Caulifla's gang is like.

[ABED]

The movie didn't really have much of a story to begin with and instead of making it better and more interesting they just waste time on silly antics.

That made people laugh - ergo, it did its job. A lot of people criticized it, but a lot of people loved it.

And it's not a complicated story, but it has a story. What do you consider "making it better"?

[JulieYBM]

I do want a movie version of the arcs up to this point so as to give them proper attention, but I imagine that if they ever do get remade during this era it would be as TV specials, rather than films. For an original story, though, I would like to see one take place with everyone going to some sort of resort planet and having shenanigans.

[Bullza]

That made people laugh - ergo, it did its job. A lot of people criticized it, but a lot of people loved it.

And it's not a complicated story, but it has a story. What do you consider "making it better"?

Yeah because it was funny, doesn't mean they should have wasted the whole middle section on those antics alone. They could have been funny whilst also moving the plot. Resurrection F made people laugh and that didn't waste screentime.

They could have made the story better in numerous ways. Expanding on Beerus' character, his relationship to Frieza, a more significant reason as to why he wanted to seek out Super Saiyan God, Goku could have gone over to the Supreme Kai world where we would could have been told more background information, they could have showed the backstory involving the original Super Saiyan God rather than being a vague non image, they could have had the other Z Fighters help Goku out which was supposedly in the original script etc.

The movie has it's start where the story is set up, a middle section that involves showing a lot of characters doing random antics, a brief explanation of what Super Saiyan God is and how to get it, there's a fight and then it's over.

[ABED]

That made people laugh - ergo, it did its job. A lot of people criticized it, but a lot of people loved it.

And it's not a complicated story, but it has a story. What do you consider "making it better"?

Yeah because it was funny, doesn't mean they should have wasted the whole middle section on those antics alone. They could have been funny whilst also moving the plot. Resurrection F made people laugh and that didn't waste screentime.

They could have made the story better in numerous ways. Expanding on Beerus' character, his relationship to Frieza, a more significant reason as to why he wanted to seek out Super Saiyan God, Goku could have gone over to the Supreme Kai world where we would could have been told more background information, they could have showed the backstory involving the original Super Saiyan God rather than being a vague non image, they could have had the other Z Fighters help Goku out which was supposedly in the original script etc.

The movie has it's start where the story is set up, a middle section that involves showing a lot of characters doing random antics, a brief explanation of what Super Saiyan God is and how to get it, there's a fight and then it's over.

Resurrection F wasn't nearly as funny and it's plot wasn't as interesting. The fighting wasn't that great, either. I'll take the comedy. Laughing and having fun, while not necessarily moving the plot forward, isn't a waste of time.

Beerus doesn't have a relationship to Freeza and Freeza wasn't important to BoG's plot.

It seems your view of expanding the story is just a lot of exposition. Much of the fun of the movie was the tension of what would set Beerus off.

[Bullza]

Resurrection F wasn't nearly as funny and it's plot wasn't as interesting. The fighting wasn't that great, either. I'll take the comedy. Laughing and having fun, while not necessarily moving the plot forward, isn't a waste of time.

Beerus doesn't have a relationship to Freeza and Freeza wasn't important to BoG's plot.

It seems your view of expanding the story is just a lot of exposition. Much of the fun of the movie was the tension of what would set Beerus off.

It was just as funny, there was as much laughter in the theatre for Resurrection F as there was for Battle of Gods and thankfully it did without Pilaf's silly antics and spray painting poop around.

The plot wasn't as interesting but it was more a complete story that didn't waste it's entire middle section on silly nonsense and padding that brought the plot to a stand still.

Beerus does have a relationship with Frieza. According to Toriyama the two characters met and got along at first before falling out and having a fight. All interesting sounding things that we never got to see and we were simply told about in an interview most don't even know about because they thought it would be better to instead have Vegeta dance around.

[ABED]

I didn't find RoF nearly as funny, and it wasn't meant to be. Maybe you didn't like how juvenile the poop joke was, but the audience loved it.

The plot wasn't as interesting but it was more a complete story that didn't waste it's entire middle section on silly nonsense and padding that brought the plot to a stand still.

Yes, a more complete plot, but if it's not interesting, then it's all for nothing. You call the middle part of BoG silly nonsense, but if it's enjoyable, though not on story, then I'll take the silly nonsense over a tighter but non-interesting story every time. A big problem with RoF was that it used Freeza again. The retread villain and yet another transformation were bound to make the story less interesting.

Beerus does have a relationship with Frieza. According to Toriyama the two characters met and got along at first before falling out and having a fight. All interesting sounding things that we never got to see and we were simply told about in an interview most don't even know about because they thought it would be better to instead have Vegeta dance around.

Okay, well it's not part of the movie and doesn't further BoG in any meaningful way as Freeza doesn't have anything to do with Beerus's conflict with Goku. You talk about keeping things on story but you can't see that that wouldn't be on story? Vegeta dancing however was on story.

[Bullza]

I didn't find RoF nearly as funny, and it wasn't meant to be.

Maybe not but it still was anyway.

Yes, a more complete plot, but if it's not interesting, then it's all for nothing. You call the middle part of BoG silly nonsense, but if it's enjoyable, though not on story, then I'll take the silly nonsense over a tighter but non-interesting story every time. A big problem with RoF was that it used Freeza again. The retread villain and yet another transformation were bound to make the story less interesting.

It was interesting thougt, not hugely so but interesting enough. It's not like Battle of Gods was hugely interesting itself and what there was was mainly at the start anyway with a few interesting lines at the end.

Bringing Frieza back was a successful selling point for that movie. If this was a 90's Dragon Ball Z movie it would have been another one and done villain like Turles. With the type of story that the movie had bringing back an old popular villain was for the best.

Okay, well it's not part of the movie and doesn't further BoG in any meaningful way as Freeza doesn't have anything to do with Beerus's conflict with Goku.

Neither did the 10 minute pointless sub plot involving Pilaf either.

The Beerus and Frieza relationship was somewhat necessary actually considering the huge bombshell that was dropped in Resurrection F that involved Beerus being the one who told Frieza to destroy Planet Vegeta which is one of the most important events in the entire series.

There was Beerus' comment in Battle of Gods about he doesn't like Frieza and would wipe him out next time he saw him. There was Frieza's reaction of fear when he saw Beerus in Resurrection F.

None of this was ever really explained at all in the movies and it could have been.

[ABED]

It was a successful selling point, but the actual movie was boring. Financial wise, it was fine, but storywise, it was not interesting. It's a slog to get through. There are so many head scratching moments in the movie and there's a huge feeling of "been there, done that".

With the type of story that the movie had bringing back an old popular villain was for the best.

And that concept can be buried into the ground. We saw that with Broly. Far too many movies and TV shows find a good villain and keep them around long after their "sell by" date.

It's not like Battle of Gods was hugely interesting itself

It was interesting. It's a fun movie to watch, which is what people are looking for.

The Beerus and Frieza relationship was somewhat necessary actually considering the huge bombshell that was dropped in Resurrection F that involved Beerus being the one who told Frieza to destroy Planet Vegeta which is one of the most important events in the entire series.

It was hardly a bombshell, and worth little more than a mention, if that. It was a giant retcon that doesn't work well. There's no payoff to it as Freeza plays no active role in the movie.

[Kanassa]

The Beerus and Frieza relationship was somewhat necessary actually considering the huge bombshell that was dropped in Resurrection F that involved Beerus being the one who told Frieza to destroy Planet Vegeta which is one of the most important events in the entire series.

It was hardly a bombshell, and worth little more than a mention, if that. It was a giant retcon that doesn't work well. There's no payoff to it as Freeza plays no active role in the movie.

Also, the plot point itself is vague and more seems to imply that Frieza asked Beerus for permission, not that Beerus told him to do it.