The FUNimation Dub's "Story" Changes

Raki · Post by **Raki** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 3:10 pm

Yeah, I had no clue that DBZ even had a legit opening until I started playing the Budokai games.

Kid Trunks · Post by **Kid Trunks** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 3:21 pm

In my opinion, the best Dragonball Z intro is the "We gotta power" intro for episodes 200 - 291. And the best outro is undoubtedly "Boku-tachi Wa Tenshi Datta", also for episodes 200 - 291 (Love that outro!!). Good stuff.

disturbed001 · Post by **disturbed001** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 4:13 pm

Kid Trunks wrote:In my opinion, the best Dragonball Z intro is the "We gotta power" intro for episodes 200 - 291. And the best outro is undoubtedly "Boku-tachi Wa Tenshi Datta", also for episodes 200 - 291 (Love that outro!!). Good stuff.

I agree 100%

TheGreatness25 · Post by **TheGreatness25** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:28 pm

Because Mystical Adventure still felt like it was less campy even than Cha-La-Head-Cha-La. Besides, when FUNimation got the episodes, they were playing off of what the Saban team did before them. And still, at least the first episode they did had to be cut (because the Saban team took parts of the next episode). So how could they have one episode with new music and the rest with the original?

Casual Matt · Post by **Casual Matt** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:39 pm

TheGreatness25 wrote:Because Mystical Adventure still felt like it was less campy even than Cha-La-Head-Cha-La. Besides, when FUNimation got the episodes, they were playing off of what the Saban team did before them. And still, at least the first episode they did had to be cut (because the Saban team took parts of the next episode). So how could they have one episode with new music and the rest with the original?

They could have gone back and done the entirety of that first episode instead of just the half that wasn't used already.

TheGreatness25 · Post by **TheGreatness25** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:41 pm

But again, they wanted to CONTINUE what was done before. Even though it was new voices and new music, if you've noticed, they pretty much follow everything the old dub did. Even the scripts for the Ultimate Uncut are pretty much what the old team did. And when they started, the voices tried to sound like the previous ones. They wanted to CONTINUE that series rather than start it all over. If they started all over, then they would've just redubbed from the beginning. I'm glad that they used the original music for Dragon Ball though. And now with the Season Sets, it takes one button to make it with the original music. Now if GT was only done with music that was a little less horrible... Oh well, I'm waiting for those Season Sets to come out. I wonder what color they'd be. Probably brown, since for some reason when I think of GT, I think dull depressing colors like brown.

Vekurotto · Post by **Vekurotto** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:57 pm

I don't know I really think all of their theories really just get thrown out the window when they put the original music on their dub back in on the season sets. Them doing that make it seem like Funi wanted to waste their money only to do what they should've done in the first place later

.

NeptuneKai · Post by **NeptuneKai** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:07 pm

Vekurotto wrote:I don't know I really think all of their theories really just get thrown out the window when they put the original music on their dub back in on the season sets. Them doing that make it seem like Funi wanted to waste their money only to do what they should've done in the first place later .

I think its more of a case that they didn't want to pay for the rights to use the Japanese score, they didn't even want or care about the Japanese score either so why waste money? They later found out their music sucks and fans wanted the original thus cueing the English voices with the Japanese BGM in the new season sets which in my opinion sounds horrible clashed together.

Onikage725 · Post by **Onikage725** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:08 pm

TheGreatness25 wrote:But again, they wanted to CONTINUE what was done before. Even though it was new voices and new music, if you've noticed, they pretty much follow everything the old dub did. Even the scripts for the Ultimate Uncut are pretty much what the old team did. And when they started, the voices tried to sound like the previous ones. They wanted to CONTINUE that series rather than start it all over. If they started all over, then they would've just redubbed from the beginning. I'm glad that they used the original music for Dragon Ball though. And now with the Season Sets, it takes one button to make it with the original music. Now if GT was only done with music that was a little less horrible... Oh well, I'm waiting for those Season Sets to come out. I wonder what color they'd be. Probably brown, since for some reason when I think of GT, I think dull depressing colors like brown.

The whole series over one episode? Seriously doubt it. I appreciate it as a theory, but if anyone from FUNi tried to sell it I'd laugh. Honestly, give me an avi of the first cut ep of the relaunch, give me the bgm track from the japanese equivalent of the footage, a separate track with the dub's recorded voice work, and set me up on a computer with adobe premiere. I'm pretty sure I could adequately "score" the damn thing in under an hour.

Honestly, I'm more of a stickler over the BGM than the intros. Maybe it's just the whole cartoon network thing where I was used to not seeing intros on any show. Just a montage of clips, some weird techno, and TOM sometimes chiming in about how super special awesome the show is. The majority of my dub experience has been on television. With DVDs, getting the intro I wanted was just a matter of changing audio tracks, so I never paid it any mind.

But I honestly feel that music has a large impact on mood. And I've tried ridiculously hard to be fair on the dub. I've seen the whole thing, multiple times in some instances. I even watched the UUC's, even tho the rehashed script and Levy-esque music disappointed me on a large scale. I can honestly say that watching the dub with the original BGM has succesfully turned the experience from "Jesus Christ, will you turn that shit off," to something I can actually watch. Maybe not my favorite version, but passable in most cases. I especially can't wait to see the Buu Saga in english with the original audio, cuz their are parts of that saga that I really think improved. Vegeta, for example, seemed to be written much closer to his Japanese counterpoint, and less like that loudmouthed clown from the dub Cell Saga.

Super Sonic · Post by **Super Sonic** » Thu Mar 20, 2008 11:34 am

A change I liked that the dub did was changing Raditz's warning about Nappa and Vegeta to his dying breath. Gave more of an "Aw crap!" feeling.

Vekurotto · Post by **Vekurotto** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 9:32 pm

Super Sonic wrote:It's kind of like that for me and Sailor Moon. Personally for the most part I didn't think the original Japanese music and the dub voices matched too well, and some friends of mine who preferred the Japanese version agreed with me. However, though I liked the Dic music, I couldn't picture Uranus and Neptune's music being different.

While people have their own preferences for things I find that if you say that the music that was supposed to be used in the first place doesn't "work" with the dub voices, then your dub is flawed as that should never happen. I've said this before but the use of the original music should never be a reason whatsoever for terrible performances which is what the real reason is.

There are many instances in Sailor Moon SuperS, since you mentioned SM as an example, that are absolutely epic in Japanese but when I switch to the dub it's completely laughable. Why is that? They both have the same music? The difference is, in the DiC dub they weren't being as serious as they should have been except that it worked because the music DiC composed wasn't as serious either. I don't know if you can admit it or not but the DiC music doesn't hold a candle to the original music for the Classic and R seasons and the DiC music isn't a varied as the original music and not as emotional either. However when Cloverway started using the original music, which is very very different from DiC's music, the actors still were following DiC's suit and weren't being serious at all and they didn't convey the same mood as what the music was setting for them and the finished product sounds like a mixture between a terrible fandub and a rushed comedy CD of what Cloverway thought that Sailor Moon was about.

Same can be said for DBZ and GT. The dub actors and Funi were acting around their music and interpretation and not the original at all. That's why most of the dub in seasons 3-now sounds like a 60+ episode running gag/insult when the original music playing with the dub. In the end the dub music fits the dub, however good or bad people think the music is. I don't like the DB dubs but I will say it fits their version but the original music doesn't and it makes the dub sound even more unprofessional and crappy than it was before even though the original BGM should have been used in the first place. It's sad as Onikage725 pointed out earlier. The dub and the original are so different that it's like watching two different shows. I wouldn't have minded it if Funi said they were adapting it to their own need like Power Rangers and Super Sentai (entirely different shows but with the same footage and concepts) or even Robotech, Battle of the Planets, and Voltron for anime. But the fact that Funi says that what they have of DB/Z/GT is a dub (English version of whatever's said in Japanese) and they tout it as better than the original because they hyped it up and brought "new life" into the series makes me pissed more than understanding

.

Onikage725 · Post by **Onikage725** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 10:00 pm

You know, I was watching part of the first set today, dubbed with the original music, and it somewhat "works." Ditto S2. But if you watch S3 or 4 with the original music, its a different story all together. Hell, the Garlic Jr. Saga is especially terrible. So I guess that leads credence to what you're saying about performances written with a certain score in mind.

On topic with story changes, this one came to me the other day- how about losing the foundation of Dragon Ball, and then screwing with "minor" things under the assumption that noone here has seen DB and will know the difference?

Here' two small ones for you guys. One- when Goku take the ring against Cell in the dub, they make the audience boo him. They were really trying to hype up "Hercule's" WWE-ish image, and figured noone over here knew Goku's tenkaichi budokai credentials.

Or, and I have to credit Kunzait for pointing this out to me a few months ago, but Piccolo in the Buu saga entering the tournament as "Majunior," yet in the dub of the Ma Jr. saga the "Ma" is replced with "Piccolo." Not only does this take any of the ambiguity out of his identity (yes we the audience know, but you wind up wondering why the various people at the tournament are so slow), but if you watch the dub straight through then you get to that little old-school DB reference in the Buu saga and it makes NO sense AT ALL.

Vekurotto · Post by **Vekurotto** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 10:34 pm

^Actually from what I remember they kept calling Piccolo, Jr., in the DB dub even after he said he was King Piccolo. I remember this because when I had Piccolo Jr. part 2 I remember watching it subbed and the Budokai announcer and everybody acknowledged that Majunior was Piccolo Daimao when the dub said nothing like that at all. They even continued to call him Jr. for the entire time that Goku and Piccolo fought.

They don't treat DB and Z as the same series even though they are. There's no effort taken at all in the dub to make sure that what's said in one spot is in continuity with previous or future events. Which is why Gero's the leader of the RRA, Bulma's known Goku sense he was 4, etc...

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 10:40 pm

Onikage725 wrote:One- when Goku take the ring against Cell in the dub, they make the audience boo him. They were really trying to hype up "Mr. Satan's" WWE-ish image, and figured noone over here knew Goku's tenkaichi budokai credentials.

I'm pretty sure the audience does boo him. Goku's a Super Saiyan at the time, none of the audience if going to recognize him as the guy who fought in the Budokai.

Vekurotto · Post by **Vekurotto** » Sun Mar 23, 2008 10:44 pm

Rocketman wrote:
Onikage725 wrote:One- when Goku take the ring against Cell in the dub, they make the audience boo him. They were really trying to hype up "Mr. Satan's" WWE-ish image, and figured noone over here knew Goku's tenkaichi budokai credentials.
I'm pretty sure the audience does boo him. Goku's a Super Saiyan at the time, none of the audience if going to recognize him as the guy who fought in the Budokai.

Yeah nobody recognized Goku at all because of his appearance. They slowly forgot about him too since he basically disappeared from the public for 16 years. I not sure if they booed him in Japanese but I think they were upset that Mr. Satan wasn't fighting first.

Onikage725 · Post by **Onikage725** » Mon Mar 24, 2008 6:14 am

Vekurotto wrote:
Rocketman wrote:
Onikage725 wrote:One- when Goku take the ring against Cell in the dub, they make the audience boo him. They were really trying to hype up "Mr. Satan's" WWE-ish image, and figured noone over here knew Goku's tenkaichi budokai credentials.
I'm pretty sure the audience does boo him. Goku's a Super Saiyan at the time, none of the audience if going to recognize him as the guy who fought in the Budokai.
Yeah nobody recognized Goku at all because of his appearance. They slowly forgot about him too since he basically disappeared from the public for 16 years. I not sure if they booed him in Japanese but I think they were upset that Mr. Satan wasn't fighting first.

Alright, you guys got me on that one. I checked a couple eps and yeah. I'm too tired to watch the whole fight and see why I thought there was a part where Goku got props but was denied dub-wise, so I'll just concede that I remembered it wrong. I think the only difference is during the second crowd reaction shot there was a general murmur from the crowd in the japanese and loud pro-Hercule commentary in the dub.