"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Noah]

Goku barely trained before the ToP (anime) I can't imagine him not wanting to improve himself after knowing he couldn't handle Toppo and there's a guy even stronger than the latter.

[Dragon Wukong]

I imagine unlike the anime the HTC will end up being used, seeing as Vegeta never broke it. That brings to mind what excuse might be used to not have Buu though, given they could just shove him in there while he's sleeping for however long.

[mute_proxy]

I imagine unlike the anime the HTC will end up being used, seeing as Vegeta never broke it. That brings to mind what excuse might be used to not have Buu though, given they could just shove him in there while he's sleeping for however long.

Or they won't use Buu at all, and he'll be asleep before Goku even asks for him. The promo cover shows Freeza from the get go.

[BlueVegerot]

I hope they show Goku actually using the time chamber. I don't want him to just magically be stronger in the tournament or break out the kaioken without training for a while

[sintzu]

Honestly, after seeing Goku straight up ignore SS3 for his fight with Jiren in the anime, despite the point being to show what he has to Jiren, it feels pretty dang good to have SS3 have some spotlight this chapter. SS3 was my favorite as a kid.

They probably didn't want to animate the hair.

[Meshack]

I forgot who mentioned it but Hit was weaker than Gokuh and Vegeta (I guess you can say battle power wise) but Gokuh even tells Hit that he had more power but he couldn't use it due to the rules being similar to the Tenkaichi Budoukai, meaning no killing. In that fight, Hit said he could, at his full power, stop SSG Gokuh ONCE. But later, he was able to dodge Gokuh's God Kamehameha. That's means Hit is much stronger and Gokuh's statement adds on to that.

With Black and Zamasu, Black only got beat-up twice and Zamasu got beat-up once (compare that to the anime).

The Hakaishin don't seem at the same level. It's kinda hard to tell since they're all in a battle royale. I don't think Toyotarou is saying Beerus and Quitela are the strongest because they were the last 2 standing. Everyone else was knocked out by another Hakaishin so it's still kinda hard to tell who's the strongest. Although, Black did say Beerus is the most difficult and there was another statement about Beerus but then again, don't think they're saying he's the strongest.

[Meshack]

Honestly, after seeing Goku straight up ignore SS3 for his fight with Jiren in the anime, despite the point being to show what he has to Jiren, it feels pretty dang good to have SS3 have some spotlight this chapter. SS3 was my favorite as a kid.

They probably didn't want to animate the hair.

The hair is not a problem.

[Noah]

The hair is not a problem.

So what is it then?

[Lord Beerus]

The hair is not a problem.

So what is it then?

Probably because in-universe it's most inefficient Super Saiyan transformation.

[Meshack]

In the anime goku had an ace up his sleeve which would help him beat people he couldn't in blue. That would be kaioken , we knew he could increase his power 10-20 times and anybody outside of jiren would lose to that level of power.

In the manga. Goku doesn't have anything above CSSB. Either they are gonna throw kaioken in the tournament or goku will use the time chamber and come out much stronger like he did during cell arc

Or... it could something very similar to the 6th Universe Arc. Gokuh was 10 times stronger than Vegeta after transforming into SSGSS. Vegeta lost most of his power because he transformed against Cabbe and he lost against Hit because of this.

Toyotarou can have the Mastered SSGSS 20 time sstronger than Gokuh’s normal SSGSS but it wouldn’t be enough. There’re many different ways for Toyotarou can make Gokuh twenty times stronger so he can face Jiren

[ekrolo2]

The hair is not a problem.

So what is it then?

Probably because in-universe it's most inefficient Super Saiyan transformation.

I'm pretty sure Grade 3s worse since you can't hit jack or shit with it. 3 doesn't kill your mobility.

[Meshack]

The worst form is Third Grade. Even though you have the immense power, your mobility is slowed. I’m pretty sure Super Saiyan 3 no longer has the stamina problem. Gokuh has improved so much since then so the form should be fine.

[BlueBasilisk]

There's a fair bit of wiggle room for the writers when it comes to Super Saiyan 3. Goku guessed it used too much ki after the power ran out while he was fighting Kid Buu because it hadn't worked that way in Otherworld, but that issue hasn't been mentioned again since the Buu Saga. Could be that he just wasn't used to using the form in his living body since he never had before. It's all rather vague, really.

[Sandubadear]

What does Korn speaks to Whis after the fight?

[TheMikado]

In the anime goku had an ace up his sleeve which would help him beat people he couldn't in blue. That would be kaioken , we knew he could increase his power 10-20 times and anybody outside of jiren would lose to that level of power.

In the manga. Goku doesn't have anything above CSSB. Either they are gonna throw kaioken in the tournament or goku will use the time chamber and come out much stronger like he did during cell arc

Or... it could something very similar to the 6th Universe Arc. Gokuh was 10 times stronger than Vegeta after transforming into SSGSS. Vegeta lost most of his power because he transformed against Cabbe and he lost against Hit because of this.

Toyotarou can have the Mastered SSGSS 20 time sstronger than Gokuh’s normal SSGSS but it wouldn’t be enough. There’re many different ways for Toyotarou can make Gokuh twenty times stronger so he can face Jiren

I think it’s being looked at from the wrong angle here. Now there’s nothing in the manga than makes it so Jiren HAS to be 20x stronger than Toppo to be a threat. Because Goku doesn’t have anymore aces up his sleeve in the manga and still can’t even hit Toppo, Jiren can just be 2x as strong as Toppo and still be an enormous threat to Goku. Nothing in the manga says Goku needs to get 20x stronger to get to Jirens level. We don’t yet but narratively nothing makes it so that they have to go that strong.

[sintzu]

Probably because in-universe it's most inefficient Super Saiyan transformation.

It was inefficient because Goku just reached it by the time the Buu arc started, the form itself is just a power up, Goku and Gotenks were the inefficient ones. At this point in the story, Goku can probably sleep with it.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Goku said Super Saiyan 3 isn't sustainable outside of Otherworld. That shows that the form itself is just bad.

[BlueVegerot]

In the anime goku had an ace up his sleeve which would help him beat people he couldn't in blue. That would be kaioken , we knew he could increase his power 10-20 times and anybody outside of jiren would lose to that level of power.

In the manga. Goku doesn't have anything above CSSB. Either they are gonna throw kaioken in the tournament or goku will use the time chamber and come out much stronger like he did during cell arc

Or... it could something very similar to the 6th Universe Arc. Gokuh was 10 times stronger than Vegeta after transforming into SSGSS. Vegeta lost most of his power because he transformed against Cabbe and he lost against Hit because of this.

Toyotarou can have the Mastered SSGSS 20 time sstronger than Gokuh’s normal SSGSS but it wouldn’t be enough. There’re many different ways for Toyotarou can make Gokuh twenty times stronger so he can face Jiren

I think it’s being looked at from the wrong angle here. Now there’s nothing in the manga than makes it so Jiren HAS to be 20x stronger than Toppo to be a threat. Because Goku doesn’t have anymore aces up his sleeve in the manga and still can’t even hit Toppo, Jiren can just be 2x as strong as Toppo and still be an enormous threat to Goku. Nothing in the manga says Goku needs to get 20x stronger to get to Jirens level. We don’t yet but narratively nothing makes it so that they have to go that strong.

There is one reason why Goku needs a huge power increase. Jiren is explicitly stated to be stronger than Belmod. Toppo is training to replace him ONE day, Jiren is already beyong him in power.

[Noah]

Toyotarou can have the Mastered SSGSS 20 time sstronger than Gokuh’s normal SSGSS but it wouldn’t be enough. There’re many different ways for Toyotarou can make Gokuh twenty times stronger so he can face Jiren

Pardon, but that's quite lame. You mean Goku master what is already mastered in order to become 20 times stronger? Nah, I think I prefer Toyotaro introducing Super Saiyan Blue 2

[sintzu]

Goku said Super Saiyan 3 isn't sustainable outside of Otherworld. That shows that the form itself is just bad.

That's within the context of the Buu arc where Goku just reached it not too long before. Saying that it can only be used in the other world implies it's some special form when according to Toriyama, it's not. It's just a powered up version of Ssj1 which means that if a Saiyan has enough power, they can use it. Goku (and Vegeta) at this point in the story have more than enough power to use it whenever they want.

Ssj1 was the same thing, Goku told Future Trunks that he had to train for awhile to be able to transform at will.