"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Namz]

I'd wait until translations are out before I decide if the manga's character problem is still prevalent

Translations are out. He's just like anime Toppo except he doesn't pose and scream Justice. He also doesn't call Son Goku a villain

So he's just nothing like anime Toppo.

[Lord Beerus]

Put me down for Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken also making its mark in the manga, too. It's even now more mandatory given that SSJB Goku got his shit pushed by Toppo so quickly in the Zen Exhibition Matches, as Goku is going to have to think of way of increasing his strength in such a limited amount of time (40 hours) for when he'll face Jiren. It'll suck that this will pretty much put an eternal gap in strength between Goku and Vegeta, but something like this was bound to happen.

Why does this matters so much?

People like competition between Goku and Vegeta. They find it entertaining, including myself.

[HeroR]

People like competition between Goku and Vegeta. They find it entertaining, including myself.

Goku and Vegeta hasn't been competition in decades, at least on Goku’s in since he moved passed Vegeta more or less. Especially in the anime where Goku wants to fight Hit, Toppo, and now Jiren.

I would rather see new rivals over Vegeta keeping up for the sake of a rivalry that Goku doesn’t care about. I mean, I’ve never seen anyone say Goku’s growth in power should be based on Piccolo or Tien.

[Jigurashi]

Goku getting SSBKK in the manga is a likely possibility. I'd love to see it in the manga. If it does happen, yeah it would make the gap between Goku and Vegeta large again, but I don't particularly care too much about that as their "rivalry" is quite stale imo. I am excited at possible Kaioken in the manga.

[Analytical Delusion]

I'm hoping Toyotaro decides against the kaio-ken, or Goku attempts to use it, and it fails. In-universe, it makes sense that it's too dangerous to attempt (and there hadn't been any attempt with the standard super saiyan forms), and if Goku tries it in a moment with the universe + afterlife on the line, I think it be more impactful to have it destroy his body/deplete his stamina. I also don't like that it creates an insurmountable gap between Goku and Vegeta (and I'm actually hoping that the anime introducing UI in a way writes that gap out of the series), and doing so what greatly diminish my interest in the series.

That said, Toei has animated blue + kaioken absolutely beautifully. So, if we get to see it in manga form, presumably with a color cover, I'm sure it would look outstanding as well.

Put me down for Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken also making its mark in the manga, too. It's even now more mandatory given that SSJB Goku got his shit pushed by Toppo so quickly in the Zen Exhibition Matches, as Goku is going to have to think of way of increasing his strength in such a limited amount of time (40 hours) for when he'll face Jiren. It'll suck that this will pretty much put an eternal gap in strength between Goku and Vegeta, but something like this was bound to happen.

Why does this matters so much?

People like competition between Goku and Vegeta. They find it entertaining, including myself.

Agreed. Their status as students of Whis who are on the same level and trying to outdo one another and chase Beerus is my favorite macro plot in Super. Part of why I liked the Buu Saga the least is because the Goku/Vegeta rivalry was written out (and it seemed contrived).

[Kanassa]

Put me down for Super Saiyan Blue Kaioken also making its mark in the manga, too. It's even now more mandatory given that SSJB Goku got his shit pushed by Toppo so quickly in the Zen Exhibition Matches, as Goku is going to have to think of way of increasing his strength in such a limited amount of time (40 hours) for when he'll face Jiren. It'll suck that this will pretty much put an eternal gap in strength between Goku and Vegeta, but something like this was bound to happen.

Why does this matters so much?

People like competition between Goku and Vegeta. They find it entertaining, including myself.

It's not a competition. Vegeta is the only one who gives a shit about their power gap.

[OLKv3]

I'd wait until translations are out before I decide if the manga's character problem is still prevalent

Translations are out. He's just like anime Toppo except he doesn't pose and scream Justice. He also doesn't call Son Goku a villain

So he's just nothing like anime Toppo.

The only way you could possibly make a claim like that is if you ignore everything Toppo says and does when he's not posing.

[sintzu]

I’ve never seen anyone say Goku’s growth in power should be based on Piccolo or Tien.

That's because Vegeta is the only one who can keep up with him. Up till this point, both have the exact same completed SsjB so until Vegeta can't keep up (and stops selling merchandise), he'll always be his main rival.

[Kanassa]

I’ve never seen anyone say Goku’s growth in power should be based on Piccolo or Tien.

That's because Vegeta is the only one who can keep up with him. Up till this point, both have the exact same completed SsjB so until Vegeta can't keep up (and stops selling merchandise), he'll always be his main rival.

Vegeta isn't a rival. The only time he could ever be considered close to a rival was in the Saiyan saga

[OLKv3]

Why does this matters so much?

People like competition between Goku and Vegeta. They find it entertaining, including myself.

It's not a competition. Vegeta is the only one who gives a shit about their power gap.

That's not true at all. Goku gets annoyed when Vegeta gets special training without him

[HeroR]

I'm hoping Toyotaro decides against the kaio-ken, or Goku attempts to use it, and it fails. In-universe, it makes sense that it's too dangerous to attempt (and there hadn't been any attempt with the standard super saiyan forms), and if Goku tries it in a moment with the universe + afterlife on the line, I think it be more impactful to have it destroy his body/deplete his stamina. I also don't like that it creates an insurmountable gap between Goku and Vegeta (and I'm actually hoping that the anime introducing UI in a way writes that gap out of the series), and doing so what greatly diminish my interest in the series.

That said, Toei has animated blue + kaioken absolutely beautifully. So, if we get to see it in manga form, presumably with a color cover, I'm sure it would look outstanding as well.

Why does this matters so much?

People like competition between Goku and Vegeta. They find it entertaining, including myself.

Agreed. Their status as students of Whis who are on the same level and trying to outdo one another and chase Beerus is my favorite macro plot in Super. Part of why I liked the Buu Saga the least is because the Goku/Vegeta rivalry was written out (and it seemed contrived).

Goku hasn’t cared about outdoing Vegeta since the Freeza Saga. The rivalry had been one-sided since Goku doesn’t care. Goku is chasing Beerus and other rivals while Vegeta is stuck on Goku, which hinders him according to Whis.

People like competition between Goku and Vegeta. They find it entertaining, including myself.

It's not a competition. Vegeta is the only one who gives a shit about their power gap.

That's not true at all. Goku gets annoyed when Vegeta gets special training without him

Thst would annoy him if that was anyone, including Gohan, since he wants special training too.

[OLKv3]

I'm hoping Toyotaro decides against the kaio-ken, or Goku attempts to use it, and it fails. In-universe, it makes sense that it's too dangerous to attempt (and there hadn't been any attempt with the standard super saiyan forms), and if Goku tries it in a moment with the universe + afterlife on the line, I think it be more impactful to have it destroy his body/deplete his stamina. I also don't like that it creates an insurmountable gap between Goku and Vegeta (and I'm actually hoping that the anime introducing UI in a way writes that gap out of the series), and doing so what greatly diminish my interest in the series.

That said, Toei has animated blue + kaioken absolutely beautifully. So, if we get to see it in manga form, presumably with a color cover, I'm sure it would look outstanding as well.

People like competition between Goku and Vegeta. They find it entertaining, including myself.

Agreed. Their status as students of Whis who are on the same level and trying to outdo one another and chase Beerus is my favorite macro plot in Super. Part of why I liked the Buu Saga the least is because the Goku/Vegeta rivalry was written out (and it seemed contrived).

Goku hasn’t cared about outdoing Vegeta since the Freeza Saga. The rivalry had been one-sided since Goku doesn’t care. Goku is chasing Beerus and other rivals while Vegeta is stuck on Goku, which hinders him according to Whis.

It's not a competition. Vegeta is the only one who gives a shit about their power gap.

That's not true at all. Goku gets annoyed when Vegeta gets special training without him

Thst would annoy him if that was anyone, including Gohan, since he wants special training too.

No, no it wouldn't. Especially since he even wants Vegeta to train with him. Vegeta is still Goku's rival and Goku still expects Vegeta to keep up with/try to top him. That's their relationship. Goku even tries to get Vegeta to train with him with Whis all the time

[sintzu]

Vegeta isn't a rival. The only time he could ever be considered close to a rival was in the Saiyan saga

As far as I know someone who's interested in keeping up with the main character and does so is a rival (a friendly rivalry now).

[HeroR]

No, no it wouldn't. Especially since he even wants Vegeta to train with him. Vegeta is still Goku's rival and Goku still expects Vegeta to keep up with/try to top him. That's their relationship. Goku even tries to get Vegeta to train with him with Whis all the time

That’s called a sparring partner, not a rival, which is what Vegeta basically is in Super. He had a similar relationship with Krillin in the original Dragon Ball and he never really saw Krillin as a rival, altogether Krillin had a rivalry with Goku.

Heck, in the anime he was willing to pay Hit to kill him so Hit would go all out, which is what a rivalry usually looks like. Not to mention how he stalks Toppo and Jiren.

[Analytical Delusion]

I'm hoping Toyotaro decides against the kaio-ken, or Goku attempts to use it, and it fails. In-universe, it makes sense that it's too dangerous to attempt (and there hadn't been any attempt with the standard super saiyan forms), and if Goku tries it in a moment with the universe + afterlife on the line, I think it be more impactful to have it destroy his body/deplete his stamina. I also don't like that it creates an insurmountable gap between Goku and Vegeta (and I'm actually hoping that the anime introducing UI in a way writes that gap out of the series), and doing so what greatly diminish my interest in the series.

That said, Toei has animated blue + kaioken absolutely beautifully. So, if we get to see it in manga form, presumably with a color cover, I'm sure it would look outstanding as well.

People like competition between Goku and Vegeta. They find it entertaining, including myself.

Agreed. Their status as students of Whis who are on the same level and trying to outdo one another and chase Beerus is my favorite macro plot in Super. Part of why I liked the Buu Saga the least is because the Goku/Vegeta rivalry was written out (and it seemed contrived).

Goku hasn’t cared about outdoing Vegeta since the Freeza Saga. The rivalry had been one-sided since Goku doesn’t care. Goku is chasing Beerus and other rivals while Vegeta is stuck on Goku, which hinders him according to Whis.

Perhaps he doesn't view Goku as somebody he's chasing, but he views him as somebody on the same level:

Android Saga - Goku viewed Vegeta as an equal when he came up with the idea to go in the RoSaT originally
Post-BoG/Pre-RoF - Goku didn't want Vegeta to get ahead of him, panicked when he found out Vegeta had been training with Whis.
RoF - Goku had no problem with Vegeta fighting Freeza, and only intervened after the rewind when he had knowledge of Freeza's intent to blow up the planet.
Pre-U6 - Goku and Vegeta literally spend three years in the RoSaT getting to the same level, and reaching their limits.
U6 Tournament (manga version) - Goku when knocked out by Frost (before he realized he had been cheated) figured Vegeta had a chance to win. Also, he didn't view Vegeta's loss to Hit as something due to the difference in ability, but because Vegeta made a tactical error.
Zamasu/Black arc (manga version) - The two are presented on the same level, until Goku achieves Mastered Blue.
Pre-Universe Survival - Vegeta also achieves Mastered Blue, and Goku doesn't appear to have any other form (so else he would've used something against Toppo).

Goku probably doesn't view Vegeta as a direct rival (while on the other hand, Vegeta views him as one), but in the manga continuity, I think he feels they're on the same plane, chasing Beerus. Introducing kaio-ken shelves Vegeta as a fighter against major threats permanently, until it's written out (which again, I'm hoping UI does; even if Vegeta doesn't achieve it, if UI is not a Goku-specific transformation/technique, it gives fighters something to strive for).

[Totamo]

Translations are out. He's just like anime Toppo except he doesn't pose and scream Justice. He also doesn't call Son Goku a villain

So he's just nothing like anime Toppo.

The only way you could possibly make a claim like that is if you ignore everything Toppo says and does when he's not posing.

Toppo is a parody on super sentai, remove that and he is not the same. Its like saying the Ginyu force are the same without their dancing and posing.


The parody is ruined.

[HeroR]

Perhaps he doesn't view Goku as somebody he's chasing, but he views him as somebody on the same level:

Android Saga - Goku viewed Vegeta as an equal when he came up with the idea to go in the RoSaT originally
Post-BoG/Pre-RoF - Goku didn't want Vegeta to get ahead of him, panicked when he found out Vegeta had been training with Whis.
RoF - Goku had no problem with Vegeta fighting Freeza, and only intervened after the rewind when he had knowledge of Freeza's intent to blow up the planet.
Pre-U6 - Goku and Vegeta literally spend three years in the RoSaT getting to the same level, and reaching their limits.
U6 Tournament (manga version) - Goku when knocked out by Frost (before he realized he had been cheated) figured Vegeta had a chance to win. Also, he didn't view Vegeta's loss to Hit as something due to the difference in ability, but because Vegeta made a tactical error.
Zamasu/Black arc (manga version) - The two are presented on the same level, until Goku achieves Mastered Blue.
Pre-Universe Survival - Vegeta also achieves Mastered Blue, and Goku doesn't appear to have any other form (so else he would've used something against Toppo).

Goku probably doesn't view Vegeta as a direct rival (while on the other hand, Vegeta views him as one), but in the manga continuity, I think he feels they're on the same plane, chasing Beerus. Introducing kaio-ken shelves Vegeta as a fighter against major threats permanently, until it's written out (which again, I'm hoping UI does; even if Vegeta doesn't achieve it, if UI is not a Goku-specific transformation/technique, it gives fighters something to strive for).

Android Saga - Somewhat. Remember Goku readliy mocked Vegeta for being weaker than him.

Resurrection ‘F’ - He was mad that Vegeta got to train with Whis and said nothing about Vegeta getting ahead of him. In fact, he praised Vegeta for maybe surpassing him.

Against Freeza, he had no problem since Vegeta saved his life.

Manga not anime where Goku laughed in good nature when Vegeta said he was superior to him. And even in the manga, Goku always had Mastered Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan, he didn’t get it mid-sega.

Like I said, Goku sees Vegeta as a sparring partner, not really a rival. The manga tried to keep the rivalry alive, but I wished Toyo would at least try something original with it other than Vegeta being me too.

[mute_proxy]

Toppo is a parody on super sentai, remove that and he is not the same. Its like saying the Ginyu force are the same without their dancing and posing.


The parody is ruined.

Yeah, and who decided that? He's not part of the Ginyu Force.

[LightBing]

People again wondering about the Kaioken in the manga. It won't happen. I don't want to sound rude but have you guys even read the manga?

Blue is a crappy transformation in the manga, you can't use Kaioken in conjugation with it. If Goku didn't do it with SSJ he won't with Blue. Toyotarõ doesn't introduce mindless power ups for the sake of it.
We recently got Full Power Blue which already serves as a power up. Besides introducing Kaioken to be relevant for 5 chapters until Ultra Instinct..., does that sound reasonable?

About Vegeta, there's a friendly rivalry dynamic. You can see it through the manga, don't miss-characterize it just because Vegeta is more invested in it than Goku. Clearly Goku enjoys it and it's one of the best thing in Super, we have someone who competes with Goku instead of being left behind.

Seems like I was right about Toppo he isn't stronger than Goku, he's on the same level. Thanks to alakazam^ for the translation.

[Totamo]

No, no it wouldn't. Especially since he even wants Vegeta to train with him. Vegeta is still Goku's rival and Goku still expects Vegeta to keep up with/try to top him. That's their relationship. Goku even tries to get Vegeta to train with him with Whis all the time

That’s called a sparring partner, not a rival, which is what Vegeta basically is in Super. He had a similar relationship with Krillin in the original Dragon Ball and he never really saw Krillin as a rival, altogether Krillin had a rivalry with Goku.

Heck, in the anime he was willing to pay Hit to kill him so Hit would go all out, which is what a rivalry usually looks like. Not to mention how he stalks Toppo and Jiren.

Yes but this is not the anime. Vegeta is Goku's rival in the sense that they both compete for the same objective: being the strongest warrior and the only one in the whole of universe 7 that could rival each other in battle.


Thats why Tien and Piccolo aren't mentioned. They have only ever rivaled Goku twice and are no longer in the race.