Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[Saiga]

But... it was Buff Boo that absorbed D. Kaioshin, not Pure Boo. So Pure Boo - D. Kaioshin makes no sense.

All D. Kaioshin was said was to lower his power. So if Boo's fusions are only ever purely additive, then his would just be the opposite.

[RandomGuy96]

Again, the Grand Supreme Kai is the only one who affected him uniquely, so he doesn't have to be purely additive, unlike the others, who are not said to affect him uniquely. But if you must have it that way, the Eastern Supreme Kai only said that Southern Supreme Kai was the most powerful of the four Kaioshin. He could've been weaker than Grand Supreme Kai, even though he's probably not.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Don't you think Kaioshin would've mentioned if ALL of the Kais affected Buu uniquely, not just the Grand Supreme Kai?

What if I believe that all absorptions, period, affect him uniquely? Then it would go without saying.

But yeah, that first-two-digits-of-the-battle powers thing is pretty random. I'll bet there's a story behind it.

Yeah, there's a reason for it. Since it's established that Buu reacts negatively, or at least in strange ways, to anything Kaioshin related, I decided that Kaioshin power will divide or multiply Buu's power. Now Buu's power was not divided when Pure Buu absorbed Southern Kaioshin, that's because Pure Buu's will was stronger than Southern Kaioshin's and thus reversed the negative affects resulting in multiplication. On the flip side, Daikaioshin divided Buu's power because he could not reverse the negative affects Kaioshin power has on him because Daikaioshin's will was stronger. As to why I chose the first 2 digits, 1 was too small and 2 worked fine so I went with it.

[Bussani]

Again, the Grand Supreme Kai is the only one who affected him uniquely, so he doesn't have to be purely additive, unlike the others

But the others were never stated to work additively in the first place, and I've never found anything to convince me that they must. Quite frankly, I'd bet Toriyama didn't put enough thought into it to make the power differences add up that straightforwardly; so rather than taking math like that as a starting point and trying to make sense of the story using it as a base, I'd be more tempted to do the opposite, and go into things expecting the power increases not to follow such a pattern.

I'm certainly not saying that one way is more right, though. There's no harm in looking at it from multiple angles, having more than one theory to think about, etc.

Yeah, there's a reason for it. Since it's established that Buu reacts negatively, or at least in strange ways, to anything Kaioshin related, I decided that Kaioshin power will divide or multiply Buu's power. Now Buu's power was not divided when Pure Buu absorbed Southern Kaioshin, that's because Pure Buu's will was stronger than Southern Kaioshin's and thus reversed the negative affects resulting in multiplication. On the flip side, Daikaioshin divided Buu's power because he could not reverse the negative affects Kaioshin power has on him because Daikaioshin's will was stronger. As to why I chose the first 2 digits, 1 was too small and 2 worked fine so I went with it.

Fair enough! That's a unique approach.

[Saiga]

Again, the Grand Supreme Kai is the only one who affected him uniquely, so he doesn't have to be purely additive, unlike the others, who are not said to affect him uniquely. But if you must have it that way, the Eastern Supreme Kai only said that Southern Supreme Kai was the most powerful of the four Kaioshin. He could've been weaker than Grand Supreme Kai, even though he's probably not.

He doesn't say "of the four Kaioshin" in the manga, just that S. Kaioshin was "the burliest and strongest one". And D. Kaioshin was only said to be unique because he reduced Boo's power, there's no reason to think that the other absorptions are purely additive if D. Kaioshin isn't.

[Kaboom]

Well, it took over five trillion hours of hard work, and thirty-four and a half viewings of my special director's cut blu-ray copy of the movie I acquired from Toriyama's second cousin's roommate's dentist last February, but I've finally compiled a perfect power level list for Battle of Gods!

• MOVIE 14 - "FROM KAMI TO KAMI"
  "Violating your common sense since 2013."
  Son Goku - 119,999,999
  ---Super Saiyan - 5,999,999,995
  ---Super Saiyan Two - 47,999,999,960
  ---Super Saiyan Three - 47,999,999,960
  ---Super Saiyan God (80%) - ????????
  ---Super Saiyan God (100%) - ??????????
  
  Vegeta - 100,000,000
  ---Super Saiyan - 5,000,000,000
  ---Super Saiyan Two - 10,000,000,000
  ---Playin' the Fool - 100,000,000,000
  ---Angry - 500,000,000,000
  ---Depressed - 250,000,000,00
  ---Embarrased - 175,000,000,000
  
  Son Gohan - 70,000,000,000
  ---B.A.C. - 0.18
  ---Super Saiyan - 70,000,000,000
  
  Son Goten - "Twelve"
  Trunks - "Thirteen"
  Marron - "Eight"
  Bra - "Who?"
  
  Videl - +1
  Pan - 9,000,000,000,000,000
  
  Billy - ??????????
  ---70% - ???????
  Whiz - ?????????????????
  
  Bulma - 38
  ---True Form - 45
  Mai - 41
  ---True Form - 51
  Shu - 5
  ---True Form - Dead in dog years
  Pilaf - Volume 2
  
  Mister Boo - Eventually
  Tenshinhan - All
  Piccolo - Beatdowns
  Eighteen - Are
  Gotenks - Identical

[dbzfan7]

You forgot the Oracle Fish and the Police Officer. They are very important. Really. You also missed Tori-Bot. He is Super God.

Where are the GTR power levels huh? I have been waiting for those since the Big Bang.

[Insertclevername]

Clever girl.

[Gozar]

OH MAN! That was great Kaboom, it really gave my wife and I a good laugh.

[Zephyr]

Kaboom, that is fucking glorious.

I Don't really do numbers or lists, so I don't know if this technically belongs here or not. I tend to think more visually, and in vague "tiers". Each row is an individual tier. Purple is the higher end of the tier, with blue being the lower end. This is all post-Freeza arc stuff.

[Kaboom]

No, charts are par for the course. Nice to mix things up a little bit, and yours looks pretty darn good.

One thing I would do, personally, is plunk Piccolo after his own Room of Spirit and Time training somewhere higher up. Goku did remark that he was on a "whole new level" afterward, and he seemed to hold his own fairly well against the Cell Junior fighting him, so I doubt he'd still be stuck in the Androids' tier. So maybe "Piccolo (Cell Games/Boo Arc)" could be at home in either the "SSj Grade 2" or at least "2nd Form Cell" tier?

[Zephyr]

I do suppose that would be plausible. I'm currently in the middle of watching the Android arc, so when I get to Cell Games I'll see precisely where to put Piccolo (Post-RoSaT), and maybe a spot for Cell Jr.

[ZombieVito]

Yea, Piccolo should be way higher. Over Grade II.

And well I still say Goku was suppressed when Bills said he was < Freeza.

[dbzfan7]

Kaboom, that is fucking glorious.

I Don't really do numbers or lists, so I don't know if this technically belongs here or not. I tend to think more visually, and in vague "tiers". Each row is an individual tier. Purple is the higher end of the tier, with blue being the lower end. This is all post-Freeza arc stuff.

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos- ... 7737_n.jpg

I may just make a tier list instead of numbers, except without the graph.

[Zephyr]

Yea, Piccolo should be way higher. Over Grade II.

And well I still say Goku was suppressed when Bills said he was < Freeza.

That's fine. I had the base Saiyans where they are long before the film's plot was released. The statement only reinforces my personal take on where they sit (even if it's in the context of him being suppressed, it's not like it hurts my case).

As for Piccolo, I'm probably going to put him in the same tier as Grade II, or at the bottom of the Perfect Cell/SSj (Post RoSaT)/Dabura tier. But again, I'm gonna hold off on that until I re-watch the Cell Games.

[RandomGuy96]

Eh, a few problems with that chart...

Bojack shouldn't be in SS2 tier. He got one-shotted effortlessly. Dabura maybe could, if you believe what the guidebooks said about Gohan being a SS2 against Dabura.

Fat Buu was considerably weaker than Kid Buu, yet you seem to have Fat Buu being stronger there.

Shouldn't SSJ God Goku be in the same tier as Bills, except blue?

[TheMightyOzaru]

Go to page 98.

[Zephyr]

Revised my chart a little bit. Fixed a few things others pointed out, incorporated some GT stuff, and incorporated some Namek arc stuff.

In each tier, purple is the top of the tier, blue is second, green is third, and yellow is fourth.

You'll notice there's no spot for Goku during his fight with Freeza. That's because it sits on the exact same spot as "Base Saiyans (post-Namek)". The implication being that Goku's power against Freeza is roughly the highest tier the base Saiyans ever reach. I can clarify anything else if needed.

[RandomGuy96]

Didn't Krillin and Gohan each beat up Goku-Ginyu at 23,000? They should be higher than Dodoria.

Piccolo should also probably be in Grade II tier, not the Perfect Cell tier. Back then he was quite a bit weaker than Vegeta and Trunks, and he probably only rose to the level of maybe a Cell Junior during the Buu arc. Cell Jr should also be in the same league as Grade II, as Vegeta and Trunks fought evenly with their Cell Juniors.

Nail, Jeice, and Burter should all be purple; I believe that Krillin stated that Jeice and Burter had around the same ki as Recoome, and Jeice is the second in command of the Ginyu Force, so it's kind of fitting that he'd be slightly stronger than Recoome.

Also, any reason Janemba, Bojack, and Hirudegarn are the only movie characters you listed?

On Omega Shenron being weaker than Vegito... I don't agree with that. Buuhan was at least stronger than Vegito's base, as Vegito had to go Super Saiyan in the manga. Even if he did godstop Buuhan, Buuhan wasn't fifty times weaker than him. GT base Goku is stronger than Kid Buu. Omega Shenron is way over 4000 times stronger than that, depending on how big of a multiplier SS4 is.

Now when you say that the base saiyans post-Namek can't get any stronger than Goku was against Frieza, do you mean Goku using kaio-ken x20? Because if not, that would contradict the whole concept of one Super Saiyan being stronger than another. Also, is this 4th form Freeza at 70%?

Dabura being weaker than Cell Junior? Yeah... just gonna say I disagree with that one. He should be more around Bojack's strength.

[ZombieVito]

TheMightyOzaru: Freeza Powers up 2 times in his second form, those gaps don't work. Piccolo can't be at 1,200,000.