Skar wrote:Not really that wasn't the basis for the assumption. As far as we're aware Broly never trained in his life and his power was restricted from an early age yet when he powered-up he was stronger than a FPSSJ. Freeza was 120 million without training while Broly was +FPSSJ level without training. He is also a prodigy but it would still be considered farfetched if he reached SSJ God tier without any sort of explanation other than just being a prodigy.
As far as we're aware. Again, that's making an assumption and using that a premise in the argument. But if we do grant that assumption for the sake of hypotheticals, then he reached power above FPSSj without training
via a transformation. Due to that being partly because of a transformation, the gains he had are already not as severe. Freeza may have reached the realm he did without the transformation being taken into account. I'm not sure if this was your point or not though.
Skar wrote:I don't think you're talking into consideration the difference between the examples. The explanation for those OCs is that they've been training for several decades. You can't really say that Freeza training for four months is as convincing as these characters training for much, much longer. Even then these characters are still criticized for outperforming the Z fighters.
Characters have different physiologies, different potentials, etc. There's no calculable system of power increase that every character should have over a certain period of time. It just feels like at that point we're needlessly applying strict inorganic restrictions on organic beings. I agree that the more time that passes, the more believable the insane gains become. What I'm saying is that in those cases, and with Freeza, the insanity of the gains is fine for me with the amount of time, given the difference in qualities they have from other characters.
Skar wrote:There were many asspull plot devices throughout the manga but there is literally none that compares to Freeza's power-up in such a short time. Goku needed multiple Zenkais, increased gravity, various training partners, and Other World training for many years to get to where he was during the Buu saga. Even then he still thought SSJ God wasn't something he could reach on his own and it required the help of five other Saiyans. You can combine the power that every character gained from every plot device in the manga and add it all up and it still wouldn't compare to what Freeza did in four months.
If I understand correctly, it's the volume of increase that Freeza is granted here that is the problem, rather than the qualities he possesses that enable increase in the first place. I agree, the volume of increase we see here is far greater than that of any single instance of increase in the past. But that taken by itself does not present a problem, so long as the qualities of the character (physiology, etc) justify the incredible increase in volume. Whether or not these qualities justify the increase in volume is ultimately up to interpretation, taste, opinion, and preference. I think it's justified enough, you disagree, and that's fine. At this point we're going to have to agree to disagree. It's cluttering the thread and we're just restating points ad infinitum. So I'll respectfully bow out.
