Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[ZombieVito]

What a surprise. The power scale is a mess yet again without using Saiyan beyond God.

[Hakaishin Liquir]

- Freeza gives Goku some of his energy (Who didn't see that coming?)
- Jiren goes on the offensive against Hit and Hit blocks some of the punches
- Hit, using the Time-Skip, is able to avoid some of Jiren's attacks
- Jiren figures out how Hit's Time-Skip work. And even now with the Time-Skip, Hit can't do anything but get his ass kicked by Jiren
- Base Vegeta overwhelms Ribrianne in a brief beam clash and then sends her flying after a flurry of offence
- Rozie comes in to make save and prevent Vegeta from finishing off Ribrianne by kickng Vegeta away
- Hit actually manages to catch Jien off gurad with his Time-Skip and catches Jiren with a punch that has enough force in it to send Jiren to edge of the arena.
- Here comes the twist... that punch wasn't any ordinary punch... Hit's punch had a paralyzing effect on Jiren created by the time-manipulation trickery of Hit's Time-Skip. And now, Jiren can't move through move.
- Jiren starts to move slightly despite being paralysed byt Hit's Time-Freeze/Time-Skip attack
- Hit goes in for the finish but Jiren manages to produce a barrier that protects him just in time
- Jiren then manages to brute force himself free from Hit's Time-Freeze/Time-Skip ability
- Jiren batters Hit. And I really mean, batters Hit. The beating is so bad that Jiren manages to damage Hit terribly just from using his eyes.
- Jiren uses the same attack that he used on Kale when she went SSJ Beserker in Epsiode 100(?) and eliminates Hit.
- Jiren meditates to as he feel with Goku exhausted and Hit out, there's nobody left to challenge him.
- Some Universe 3(?) fighters try to attack Jiren while he is meditating but Jiren has an invisible barrier that protects him and pushes back the fighters trying to attack him.

EDIT: I had to go the bathroom and missed the NEP, so I'm not sure if anything major happened there.

[spoiler]Pretty much confermastion on what the episode spoilers say. Cabba fight the U4 girl and gets beat up, so Vegeta desides to "motivate" him by kneeing him the stomach.

At this rate I wonder who's going to be beating Cabba more next episode. The U4 girl, Frieza or Vegeta![/spoiler]

And based on the NEP I'm guessing that Monna gets eliminated by a weakened SSJ Cabba after Vegeta motivates him. Which means that U4 has yet another fodder character, and the bugs are the only members of U4 that have a chance of being somewhat competitive. Shantsa was almost thrown out by Biara, with his jets on his back being the only thing that saved him, so unless Biarra is actually much stronger than we expect, Shantsa doesn't look like he'll be anything special either.

At this point the only hope for Monna to be considered relevant is if Cabba has to awaken SSJ2 to beat her.

[The gr]

What a surprise. The power scale is a mess yet again without using Saiyan beyond God.

Whats the problem here

[CJStriker_CBR]

I'm pretty sure that SSJ Vegeta wasn't going all out and 17 was just dicking around with her.

Ribrianne is indeed base tier,why are there so many character from the TOP are below the base saiyans

We've seen her fight with a character who used a weaker form in this episode to beat her ass and we've seen her fight with another character whom we never know how much power he's using. Hardly proof of anything. The fact she gets overwhelmed by base Goku and base Vegeta should be proof enough of her position in the power pole, but yet some people decide to cling on to delusion.

With all Due Respect No, I don't play on delusions nor give ideals to them, I base on facts, honestly the ideal that they where not going all out with Ribrianne cannot be confirmed, it is an Fan theory to push up Vegeta and 17 and Nerf Ribrianne for personal reasons, their is not evidence to base dicking around.

What is based is what we see and what we saw in those fights where Ribrianne holding her own against 2 hight level fighters plan and simple, what we saw in those fights prove the points, I believe what Toei draws not in what fans hope to see.

But with that said I have to thoeries why this fight was base form and that is easy to see as well.

Also, this Fight made more sense in why it was a base fight, I gave reasons that Ribrianne seem out of her grove and for the 1st time tired, so it made sense it was light that.

Honestly I have high respect for the both of you, but to Say Ribrianne is Weaker then base is plan not correct and ignores earlier fights.

[Lord Frieza]

To give credit to Hit, he proved that skill and technique are just as important as raw power in a battle. If he had done this to anyone else they would have been done for........the problem was he was trying to pull it off on a monster like Jiren.

[Lord Beerus]

I have to agree with other posters who were not impressed with Ribrianne's performance. Base Vegeta easily overpowered her and would have finished her off if Rozie didn't make the save. And Base Goku was just fucking around with her, before he sent her crashing to ground with single kick as a SSJB. It really does seem like Toei did the old smoke-and-mirrors trick with regards as to how strong she truly was. Because now it seems like Android 17 was just dicking around with her too when he was fighting her as well, given how she's performed in the last 3 episodes.

[Lord Frieza]

I would not worry about Ribrianne. She and Rozie will fuse or something in the next few epiosdes and make this new super warrior and give a better showing.

Thats my theory anyway.

[supercat]

I don't see why people get so upset over a messy powerscale. It's not like it's the first time. Why not just take thing as they are instead of justifying inconsistencies with made up theories that convolute things even more?

[Doctor.]

With all Due Respect No, I don't play on delusions nor give ideals to them, I base on facts, honestly the ideal that they where not going all out with Ribrianne cannot be confirmed, it is an Fan theory to push up Vegeta and 17 and Nerf Ribrianne for personal reasons, their is not evidence to base dicking around.

What is based is what we see and what we saw in those fights where Ribrianne holding her own against 2 hight level fighters plan and simple, what we saw in those fights prove the points, I believe what Toei draws not in what fans hope to see.

But with that said I have to thoeries why this fight was base form and that is easy to see as well.

Also, this Fight made more sense in why it was a base fight, I gave reasons that Ribrianne seem out of her grove and for the 1st time tired, so it made sense it was light that.

Honestly I have high respect for the both of you, but to Say Ribrianne is Weaker then base is plan not correct and ignores earlier fights.

No, you're just blatantly ignoring her performance in exchange for your own biased view of her power.

We have two portrayals here:

1. She fights evenly with SS Vegeta and #17
2. She's overwhelmed by base Goku and base Vegeta

What's more likely to you? That she's holding back against Goku and Vegeta when she had to transform even further against Goku (and even then couldn't touch him) and is shown exerting herself? Or that Vegeta and #17 were holding back when Vegeta was too disgusted to fight and used a weaker form to fight her later (despite apparently knowing how powerful she is) and #17 was playing a character and pretending to be evil for laughs during their fight (not to mention how much power #17 is using is always something very hard to assess, considering it seemed like he was serious vs SS Goku but then he could handle SSB just fine)?

[The gr]

I don't see why people get so upset over a messy powerscale. It's not like it's the first time. Why not just take thing as they are instead of justifying inconsistencies with made up theories that convolute things even more?

This man speak the truth here

I have to agree with other posters who were not impressed with Ribrianne's performance. Base Vegeta easily overpowered her and would have finished her off if Rozie didn't make the save. And Base Goku was just fucking around with her, before he sent her crashing to ground with single kick as a SSJB. It really does seem like Toei did the old smoke-and-mirrors trick with regards as to how strong she truly was. Because now it seems like Android 17 was just dicking around with her too when he was fighting her as well, given how she's performed in the last 3 episodes.

Which is strange,i expected the manga to do this sadly the anime did this,i thought they liked magical girls

[CJStriker_CBR]

I have to agree with other posters who were not impressed with Ribrianne's performance. Base Vegeta easily overpowered her and would have finished her off if Rozie didn't make the save. And Base Goku was just fucking around with her, before he sent her crashing to ground with single kick as a SSJB. It really does seem like Toei did the old smoke-and-mirrors trick with regards as to how strong she truly was. Because now it seems like Android 17 was just dicking around with her too when he was fighting her as well, given how she's performed in the last 3 episodes.

Hey Lord Beerus, nice to talk to you again.

Honestly I don't think Toei played smoke and mirrors with Ribrianne. It is easy to figure why this fight was the way it was.

This tournament has gone on for awhile so finally I saw a Ribrianne getting tired and it showed here, so it makes sense why this was base form fighting. Saying the they where just playing around before has to base to it, we saw them both SSJ-Vegeta and 17 fighting hard against her, that is fact that is their on the screen.

Here is the fact that she is getting tired and is having trouble feeling her grove anymore, it is a classic story trope out of Magical Girls and other animes I have seen. It is after that, that the hero gains more power and fighter bigger and stronger then ever.

So this honestly is all playing how I figured it, I am just trying to help you see it in a different view my friend.

[Hakaishin Liquir]

To give credit to Hit, he proved that skill and technique are just as important as raw power in a battle. If he had done this to anyone else they would have been done for........the problem was he was trying to pull it off on a monster like Jiren.

Honestly, Hit is probably one of the smartest fighters in the ToP. He was able to quickly figure out how Dyspo knew when he was about to use Tokitobashi, he quickly thought up a strategy to trick Dyspo into falling off the ring, and he quickly thought of a way to confuse Dyspo about whether or not he would use Tokitobashi. And then in this episode he thought of a way to land a clean hit on Jiren despite Jiren easily eclipsing him in strength, and he was able to paralyze Jiren after that. I'm starting to think that Hit's improvement ability is really just his mental prowess allowing him to quickly think of ways to improve his techniques and thinking of tactics he can use against his opponents, instead of him just simply getting physically stronger.

The only ones seen so far that can rival Hit in terms of fighting intelligence are Master Roshi, and I would say Frost if episode 108 ever happened (though to be fair to Frost, the plot did demand that he would be the one out of him and Freeza to get outsmarted and betrayed by the other simply because Freeza the more popular and recognized of the two).

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

Jiren is the individual that Whis stated was stronger than a god of destruction. That god of destruction was stated to be stronger than beerus. So we already know that jiren>beerus. And that isn't even surprising since even merged zamasu was above him.

Beerus was shocked at Jirens suppressed energy and was baffled at how that much energy could only be coming from a single person.

Sidra was shocked at ssb goku energy, champa and beerus were freaked out when goku used ssb kkx10. Reactions to energy don't mean someone is stronger. Also merged zamasu is not close to beerus dude. Goku overpowered him and kicked his halo off with ssb kk. The manga showed completed ssb goku and merged zamasu to be equal in power, beerus completely shat on completed ssb vegeta who is >= goku in power

Yeah and that should have told you something. Reactions are absolutely indicative of where characters can stand. Are you going to tell me that beerus cowering in front of the grand priest doesn't mean anything?
If beerus can't comprehend how one person can have that much energy, then that means that he himself doesn't have that level of power. It's very simple.

Sidra isn't stronger than Ssb Goku, golden Frieza etc. Not based on their interactions in the story. Kaioken isn't weaker than beerus and merged zamasu has an anime exclusive form (his halo) which makes him stronger than beerus.

[CJStriker_CBR]

With all Due Respect No, I don't play on delusions nor give ideals to them, I base on facts, honestly the ideal that they where not going all out with Ribrianne cannot be confirmed, it is an Fan theory to push up Vegeta and 17 and Nerf Ribrianne for personal reasons, their is not evidence to base dicking around.

What is based is what we see and what we saw in those fights where Ribrianne holding her own against 2 hight level fighters plan and simple, what we saw in those fights prove the points, I believe what Toei draws not in what fans hope to see.

But with that said I have to thoeries why this fight was base form and that is easy to see as well.

Also, this Fight made more sense in why it was a base fight, I gave reasons that Ribrianne seem out of her grove and for the 1st time tired, so it made sense it was light that.

Honestly I have high respect for the both of you, but to Say Ribrianne is Weaker then base is plan not correct and ignores earlier fights.

No, you're just blatantly ignoring her performance in exchange for your own biased view of her power.

We have two portrayals here:

1. She fights evenly with SS Vegeta and #17
2. She's overwhelmed by base Goku and base Vegeta

What's more likely to you? That she's holding back against Goku and Vegeta when she had to transform even further against Goku (and even then couldn't touch him) and is shown exerting herself? Or that Vegeta and #17 were holding back when Vegeta was too disgusted to fight and used a weaker form to fight her later (despite apparently knowing how powerful she is) and #17 was playing a character and pretending to be evil for laughs during their fight (not to mention how much power #17 is using is always something very hard to assess, considering it seemed like he was serious vs SS Goku but then he could handle SSB just fine)?

With all Respect and Honeslty I don't want to make this personal I just stating the facts I have seen and giving my best to saying them, typing it does not do it justice all the time, so not hard feels I just want to make it clear here.

I Again say I DON'T deal is biased, always hated them, even when supporting my favorite characters in any medium, it hurts and without bases for support it ends bad.

BUT What is More Likely to Me;

It is what I have seen...........Ribrianne Fought SSJ-Vegeta Evenly and 17 and Broke His Shield Easy! Their is No Denying that happen and the bases to say their where Playing goes against what toei for our Eyes to see.

You are saying their is more bases for the Base fight, but that Bases is only true for the Vegeta Fight, the Goku Base fight was Broken and made little sense. I said the Vegeat fight she was weak and showed it, that is a fact, but it makes sense with how long this fight has been going, even Jiren needs a break.

So Really My Facts and Expressing them will Never Change on this until I have Real Facts that say otherwise, but Until then my Bases still stands as they do, But Still Great Debate, again I want this to be a Debate, Not hard feelings Doctor!

[Lord Beerus]

I have to agree with other posters who were not impressed with Ribrianne's performance. Base Vegeta easily overpowered her and would have finished her off if Rozie didn't make the save. And Base Goku was just fucking around with her, before he sent her crashing to ground with single kick as a SSJB. It really does seem like Toei did the old smoke-and-mirrors trick with regards as to how strong she truly was. Because now it seems like Android 17 was just dicking around with her too when he was fighting her as well, given how she's performed in the last 3 episodes.

Hey Lord Beerus, nice to talk to you again.

Honestly I don't think Toei played smoke and mirrors with Ribrianne. It is easy to figure why this fight was the way it was.

This tournament has gone on for awhile so finally I saw a Ribrianne getting tired and it showed here, so it makes sense why this was base form fighting. Saying the they where just playing around before has to base to it, we saw them both SSJ-Vegeta and 17 fighting hard against her, that is fact that is their on the screen.

Here is the fact that she is getting tired and is having trouble feeling her grove anymore, it is a classic story trope out of Magical Girls and other animes I have seen. It is after that, that the hero gains more power and fighter bigger and stronger then ever.

So this honestly is all playing how I figured it, I am just trying to help you see it in a different view my friend.

It's fair enough if you want to think that. But I feel this another one of those scenarios where Toriyama didn't put enough detail in the plot outline, in regards for how much a character could contribute in the narrative, and Toei decided to throw her bone anyway and have her fight a SSJB tier character in Android 17 to start off with, before realising that the role Toriyama gave her in this whole arc was to have a fun and wacky transformation, before basically jobbing out to the Saiyans (Goku and/or Vegeta) once the actual tournament began. I have a horrible feeling Toriyama originally wrote Ribrianne to be a glorified gag character. And I will be very interested to see how the manga handles her. The more I think about it, the more I believe Ribrianne is a decoy protagonist for Team Universe 2, and the true heavy hitter(s) for Universe 2 haven't been seen yet.

[PushoverMediaCritic]

Also, there's a difference between "overpowered by 'base' Goku, who dodged everything she could throw at him", and "had 'base' Goku so far on the ropes that he could do nothing but dodge with all the audience talking about how she has a clear and overwhelming advantage".

[Hakaishin Liquir]

I have to agree with other posters who were not impressed with Ribrianne's performance. Base Vegeta easily overpowered her and would have finished her off if Rozie didn't make the save. And Base Goku was just fucking around with her, before he sent her crashing to ground with single kick as a SSJB. It really does seem like Toei did the old smoke-and-mirrors trick with regards as to how strong she truly was. Because now it seems like Android 17 was just dicking around with her too when he was fighting her as well, given how she's performed in the last 3 episodes.

Hey Lord Beerus, nice to talk to you again.

Honestly I don't think Toei played smoke and mirrors with Ribrianne. It is easy to figure why this fight was the way it was.

This tournament has gone on for awhile so finally I saw a Ribrianne getting tired and it showed here, so it makes sense why this was base form fighting. Saying the they where just playing around before has to base to it, we saw them both SSJ-Vegeta and 17 fighting hard against her, that is fact that is their on the screen.

Here is the fact that she is getting tired and is having trouble feeling her grove anymore, it is a classic story trope out of Magical Girls and other animes I have seen. It is after that, that the hero gains more power and fighter bigger and stronger then ever.

So this honestly is all playing how I figured it, I am just trying to help you see it in a different view my friend.

It's fair enough if you want to think that. But I feel this another one of those scenarios where Toriyama didn't put enough detail in the plot outline, in regards for how much a character could contribute in the narrative, and Toei decided to throw her bone anyway and have her fight a SSJB tier character in Android 17 to start off with, before realising that the role Toriyama gave her in this whole arc was to have a fun and wacky transformation, before basically jobbing out to the Saiyans (Goku and/or Vegeta) once the actual tournament began. I have a horrible feeling Toriyama originally wrote Ribrianne to be a glorified gag character. And I will be very interested to see how the manga handles her. The more I think about it, the more I believe Ribrianne is a decoy protagonist for Team Universe 2, and the true heavy hitter(s) for Universe 2 haven't been seen yet.

This is probably true tbh. I mean this isn't the first time we've seen something like this happen, just look at Dyspo. In his intro, he got restrained by a random throwaway villain and in the first episode of the ToP, he got knocked away by a fodder like Narirama, but then in his first episode that has actually focused around him (104), SSG/SSB Goku couldn't land a hit on him and he was pushing Goku back (not mentioning his fight against Hit since he had an unfair advantage at the start, and when they were on an even playing field, Hit trolled him, so Dyspo's fight against Goku was really his best performance).

[CJStriker_CBR]

I have to agree with other posters who were not impressed with Ribrianne's performance. Base Vegeta easily overpowered her and would have finished her off if Rozie didn't make the save. And Base Goku was just fucking around with her, before he sent her crashing to ground with single kick as a SSJB. It really does seem like Toei did the old smoke-and-mirrors trick with regards as to how strong she truly was. Because now it seems like Android 17 was just dicking around with her too when he was fighting her as well, given how she's performed in the last 3 episodes.

Hey Lord Beerus, nice to talk to you again.

Honestly I don't think Toei played smoke and mirrors with Ribrianne. It is easy to figure why this fight was the way it was.

This tournament has gone on for awhile so finally I saw a Ribrianne getting tired and it showed here, so it makes sense why this was base form fighting. Saying the they where just playing around before has to base to it, we saw them both SSJ-Vegeta and 17 fighting hard against her, that is fact that is their on the screen.

Here is the fact that she is getting tired and is having trouble feeling her grove anymore, it is a classic story trope out of Magical Girls and other animes I have seen. It is after that, that the hero gains more power and fighter bigger and stronger then ever.

So this honestly is all playing how I figured it, I am just trying to help you see it in a different view my friend.

It's fair enough if you want to think that. But I feel this another one of those scenarios where Toriyama didn't put enough detail in the plot outline, in regards for how much a character could contribute in the narrative, and Toei decided to throw her bone anyway and have her fight a SSJB tier character in Android 17 to start off with, before realising that the role Toriyama gave her in this whole arc was to have a fun and wacky transformation, before basically jobbing out to the Saiyans (Goku and/or Vegeta) once the actual tournament began. I have a horrible feeling Toriyama originally wrote Ribrianne to be a glorified gag character. And I will be very interested to see how the manga handles her. The more I think about it, the more I believe Ribrianne is a decoy protagonist for Team Universe 2, and the true heavy hitter(s) for Universe 2 haven't been seen yet.

Indeed, This is a Fair Debate and it is Fair to have different Points of View, it will be in the Longrun of the show who is Proven Right, but I NEVER want a debate to go farther then that, I have to much respect for my fellow posters.

Also an IMPORTANT UPDATE just came-up with the Translations coming out of the Ribrianne and Rozie moment, I have just seen the Translations and it goes with My Theories Well;

Ribrianne is Doubting herself and her abilities, plus Universe 2 losing fighters has her down too, so down on herself, not confident they can Win.

Rozie Slaps her out of it and says that she is the only one that can do this and that is this ALL Ribrianne can do?! Meaning that Ribrianne can be more then what we have see so far!

So As I Theories before my Translations, this follow the EXACT Magical Girl/Other Anime Show Trope of Doubting yourself and being in a bad/weaken state, that is what I think this fight was trying to get across to us.

So I believe Now that Ribiranne will show a Greater extent of Power that is more focus and serious now, we have to see if Toei Does this, but this moment lent large to that Theory now!

Honestly I don't think Toei or Toriyama are trying to nerf her, they are just following the same old story model they do for these kinds of characters, ones I predicted would happen and I am glad to see them going forward.

[RedHeat]

Jiren seems like an expert in hand-to-hand combat.

Does he know boxing?

[BlueVegerot]

Ribrianne in this episode was struggling with base vegeta. Before she was atleast keeping up with ssj vegeta and android 17. Is it possible goku just suppressed the living shit out of himself against 17 or was 17 not trying vs her?