Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Bullza]

Wait a minute so if Jiren has gone back to meditating after dealing with the only two that needed to be dealt with Goku and Hit....then does that mean Hit is above the likes of Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta and Golden Frieza?

I don't think it'd be a stretch at all.

Jiren supposedly can't even be stopped by time itself, he's really OP.

And yeah Ribrianne went from looking pretty impressive to not impressive at all. That said she wasn't Super Ribrianne here was she?

Jiren has never seen the power of Vegeta or Frieza.

Hit was totally nullified even after using Time Skip and that invisible Ki sphere (even Goku SSB traded more solid punches while Hit only defended himself to avoid damage).

He only got something after paralyzing Jiren with his technique, and even that was not effective.

So I would not say that he is above Vegeta SSB or Golden Freeza

They have both transformed though in this tournament so Jiren would know how strong they are.

That Hit was even able to freeze Jiren and land an attack on him at all when even Ultra Instinct Goku only hit him the once should put him above Vegeta and Frieza who would not be able to do the same thing.

[TheSaiyanGod]

Wait a minute so if Jiren has gone back to meditating after dealing with the only two that needed to be dealt with Goku and Hit....then does that mean Hit is above the likes of Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta and Golden Frieza?

I don't think it'd be a stretch at all.

Jiren supposedly can't even be stopped by time itself, he's really OP.

And yeah Ribrianne went from looking pretty impressive to not impressive at all. That said she wasn't Super Ribrianne here was she?

Jiren has never seen the power of Vegeta or Frieza.

Hit was totally nullified even after using Time Skip and that invisible Ki sphere (even Goku SSB traded more solid punches while Hit only defended himself to avoid damage).

He only got something after paralyzing Jiren with his technique, and even that was not effective.

So I would not say that he is above Vegeta SSB or Golden Freeza

They have both transformed though in this tournament so Jiren would know how strong they are.

That Hit was even able to freeze Jiren and land an attack on him at all when even Ultra Instinct Goku only hit him the once should put him above Vegeta and Frieza who would not be able to do the same thing.

Vegeta and Freeza in no time showed all their power in the tournament (it was not necessary). Goku used Blue against Kale, but Goku himself says he was only releasing "a little" more power. Using your stronger transformation does not mean being in full power.

And also, the arena is very large and has several Ki crashing constantly.
Even Jiren only knew Hit's abilities after seeing him fighting Dyspo.
And yet Hit only managed to hit an attack after distracting Jiren (who was only paralyzed by being a specific Hit technique)

In the end, nothing Hit did did. It was completely nullified using Time Skip and its special techniques.

[larzooma]

Jiren has never seen the power of Vegeta or Frieza.

Hit was totally nullified even after using Time Skip and that invisible Ki sphere (even Goku SSB traded more solid punches while Hit only defended himself to avoid damage).

He only got something after paralyzing Jiren with his technique, and even that was not effective.

So I would not say that he is above Vegeta SSB or Golden Freeza

They have both transformed though in this tournament so Jiren would know how strong they are.

That Hit was even able to freeze Jiren and land an attack on him at all when even Ultra Instinct Goku only hit him the once should put him above Vegeta and Frieza who would not be able to do the same thing.

Vegeta and Freeza in no time showed all their power in the tournament (it was not necessary). Goku used Blue against Kale, but Goku himself says he was only releasing "a little" more power. Using your stronger transformation does not mean being in full power.

And also, the arena is very large and has several Ki crashing constantly.
Even Jiren only knew Hit's abilities after seeing him fighting Dyspo.
And yet Hit only managed to hit an attack after distracting Jiren (who was only paralyzed by being a specific Hit technique)

In the end, nothing Hit did did. It was completely nullified using Time Skip and its special techniques.

Is there any indication Jiren can sense energy in the same way as fighters from U7? He entered the tournament with knowledge of Goku's strength, and already had him in mind. Regarding Hit, he saw his battle with Dyspo, and the clear respect Goku has for him as a fighter. He spent the majority of the first half studying Goku, and Hit crossed paths with Goku enough for Jiren to gain a good sense he was a level above the rest. It's possible he has no clue how powerful Vegeta and Frieza are at full strength. Honestly, we don't really even know how much Vegeta gained from his training, and although Frieza somewhat confirmed he's not on the level capable of taking down Jiren, we don't know on what level he could compete with him.

[Bullza]

Vegeta and Freeza in no time showed all their power in the tournament (it was not necessary). Goku used Blue against Kale, but Goku himself says he was only releasing "a little" more power. Using your stronger transformation does not mean being in full power.

And also, the arena is very large and has several Ki crashing constantly.
Even Jiren only knew Hit's abilities after seeing him fighting Dyspo.
And yet Hit only managed to hit an attack after distracting Jiren (who was only paralyzed by being a specific Hit technique)

In the end, nothing Hit did did. It was completely nullified using Time Skip and its special techniques.

Goku and Vegeta have gone Blue other times like when they defeated the Trio De Dangers. Both Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta and Golden Frieza are no stronger than Super Saiyan Blue Goku and he was no threat to Jiren, couldn't even touch him.

Hit hadn't used his full powers either but he was still considered a threat that needed dealing with. Hit did leave a fist sized dent in Jiren's​ chest, froze him and held him place for a brief period and dodged a bunch of Jiren's attacks.

Vegeta and Frieza shouldn't​ really be able to last any longer than Super Saiyan Blue Goku did which was seconds before he had to use Kaioken.

Also if Jiren doesn't find any of the others to even be worth their time then by extension it must mean he believes that Toppo and Dyspo would be enough to take care of the rest.

[BlueVegerot]

Freeza and Vegeta are on par with SSB Goku, Goku then went 20 times higher and got blinked away. So yeah Jiren doesn't need to see freeza or vegeta

[namekiansaiyan]

The only other Super Saiyan Blue tier characters are on Jiren's team, Toppo and Dyspo, so yeah...that's basically it.

I guess Jiren doesn't consider Vegeta, Freeza, etc. worth his time.

I am going to use a word I hate now to describe Vegeta and Frieza and that is fodder.

SSB tier is nothing and should not be used again as a measuring bat as everyone is completely useless against Jiren apart from Ultra Instinct Goku so it doesn't matter what tier you put these 2 or anyone else in they are currently here to fill the numbers up.

[Hugo Boss]

It just occurred to me that Ribrianne’s powerlevel might depend on her feelings, which could explain her performance against No.17 and Base Vegeta, respectively.

[TheSaiyanGod]

Vegeta and Freeza in no time showed all their power in the tournament (it was not necessary). Goku used Blue against Kale, but Goku himself says he was only releasing "a little" more power. Using your stronger transformation does not mean being in full power.

And also, the arena is very large and has several Ki crashing constantly.
Even Jiren only knew Hit's abilities after seeing him fighting Dyspo.
And yet Hit only managed to hit an attack after distracting Jiren (who was only paralyzed by being a specific Hit technique)

In the end, nothing Hit did did. It was completely nullified using Time Skip and its special techniques.

Goku and Vegeta have gone Blue other times like when they defeated the Trio De Dangers. Both Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta and Golden Frieza are no stronger than Super Saiyan Blue Goku and he was no threat to Jiren, couldn't even touch him.

Hit hadn't used his full powers either but he was still considered a threat that needed dealing with. Hit did leave a fist sized dent in Jiren's​ chest, froze him and held him place for a brief period and dodged a bunch of Jiren's attacks.

Vegeta and Frieza shouldn't​ really be able to last any longer than Super Saiyan Blue Goku did which was seconds before he had to use Kaioken.

Also if Jiren doesn't find any of the others to even be worth their time then by extension it must mean he believes that Toppo and Dyspo would be enough to take care of the rest.

I'll repeat the same thing I said earlier. Vegeta and Freeza did not use all the power they have in no time.

The trio de dangers could not even face Goku / Vegeta in their regular SSJ forms. And yet, they were hit by a Goku / Vegeta SSB Kamehameha Final and were just unconscious. I think it's clear that the two Saiyans used little power in this attack (moreover, the purpose of the combination was to refer to Vegetto).

Hit did not use all his powers? Not even the murder technique that killed Goku was useful against Jiren (only to paralyze him). This is also not related to power but a characteristic of the technique.

It is obvious that neither Vegeta nor Frieza are opponents to Jiren. I meant Pride Trooper's talk at the end of the EP does not prove that Hit is stronger than them. Or, we would also have to consider that Toppo and Dyspo are stronger than both (because Jiren counted on the two to win the tournament).

It was clear that Jiren does not know Vegeta and Freeza and so he only quoted Goku and Hit.

[Shlugo]

Jiren made it very clear that Goku and Hit were the only two opponents he needed to fight personally, and Toppo & Dyspo are enough to handle everyone else. So the powerscale goes something like this:

UI Goku >=Jiren>>>>>>>>>>>Goku>=Hit>Topo>Dyspo>Everyone else.

Straight out the horse mouth.




This episode also shows clearly that Ribrianne is weaker than base Sayians, but we knew that since the special.

[BlueVegerot]

It means Jiren THINKS dyspo and toppo are stronger than the rest. Dyspo was about to get his ears cut off by maji kayo so lets not act like he's some OP fighter and Toppo is basically on par with SSB goku as are freeza and vegeta.

[CJStriker_CBR]

It just occurred to me that Ribrianne’s powerlevel might depend on her feelings, which could explain her performance against No.17 and Base Vegeta, respectively.

That is a good theory right their , her love or confidence in her love can determine how strong she is. It is like how this works when I compared her to the Emotional Spectrum of the Lantern Cores from DC Comics, like I did when I 1st started talking about her powers. For Example, If a Green Lantern lacks self confidence in their Will then they become weaken and are open other attacks like the Yellow Light of Fear.

So by this I think Ribrianne works the same way and combine that with being in battle after battle that have been against high tier fighters, it adds-ups.

So Indeed, as with the discussion with Rozie showed, she was lacking confidence in her Love and also being in so many battles, Plus the whole thing with Jiren revealing his true power, Yea that is why the Battle with Vegeta become so hard for her. I like detailed story elements like this that give details on how ones powers work.

[dbgtFO]

I subscribe to the notion, that you are only as good as your last showing, so Ribriane is base Saiyan level until further episodes show otherwise.
Furthermore the past 4 episodes has had her fighting on par with only base Saiyan level foes, so that's actually quite consistent, which forces me to go with that instead of those early outliers, that can be handwaved as characters holding back.
We'll see later on, if she gets a power up or something, because the one she already got evidently didn't do much.

[supercat]

I'm beginning to feel the new Namekians may possibly be even weaker than Botamo. If they were really that strong, wouldn't they have been at the previous tournament instead of Botamo?

Maybe Botamo was chosen for his ability, but Cabba and Frost don't really have such abilities, so these Namekians may even be weaker than Base Cabba and Frost.

If Piccolo easily defeats one, we know they're pretty darn low on the power scale. Well if that happens, it was sort of expected I guess. They had no build up really, were initially shown in the background doing who knows what, and their first big intro was apparently a mere side show. Well I'm all for a good laugh, as long as it doesn't waste too much time or take away from the cooler fights.

[CJStriker_CBR]

I subscribe to the notion, that you are only as good as your last showing, so Ribriane is base Saiyan level until further episodes show otherwise.
Furthermore the past 4 episodes has had her fighting on par with only base Saiyan level foes, so that's actually quite consistent, which forces me to go with that instead of those early outliers, that can be handwaved as characters holding back.
We'll see later on, if she gets a power up or something, because the one she already got evidently didn't do much.

Indeed I have heard of that theory and it is a good one, it can go with helping to figure out many fighters abilities and where they stand, so indeed DbgtFO that is one that is good for many well define moments in a characters history.

However with much due respect to that theory cause I do have much respect for it and for your views on it as a fellow poster, I have to disagree with it here with Ribrianne.

Really it has to be the law of both how has been the highest levels we have seen her character perform at, what characters she has fought and how their powers have been define threw-out a long-time and most of all the effects of what I am calling Fatigue and lost of Confidence in oneself.

In the Present moment until the Slop by Rozie, Ribrianne was in a negative state with herself, but that hardly reflects her true stat of power. Her True stated level was already show with SSJ-Vegeta and Android 17 which is much higher then it was in the recent battles and those made sense for well define story element progress reasons as well as the characters definition of the use of her power, expect for Goku, that was hard to define.

I Go further into detail about that HERE in the link below ;

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=40110&p=1396816#p1396800


So Ribrianne has already been shown to be truly at a much higher state and has the ablity to be higher, but as I stated in my post in the link, it depends allot on her state of being and fatigue like most other fighters.

[namekiansaiyan]

I'm beginning to feel the new Namekians may possibly be even weaker than Botamo. If they were really that strong, wouldn't they have been at the previous tournament instead of Botamo?

Maybe Botamo was chosen for his ability, but Cabba and Frost don't really have such abilities, so these Namekians may even be weaker than Base Cabba and Frost.

If Piccolo easily defeats one, we know they're pretty darn low on the power scale. Well if that happens, it was sort of expected I guess. They had no build up really, were initially shown in the background doing who knows what, and their first big intro was apparently a mere side show. Well I'm all for a good laugh, as long as it doesn't waste too much time or take away from the cooler fights.

Can you seriously stop your hate towards certain characters (Piccolo, Hit and Tien) and the only character we will be laughing is Vegeta when he gets his customary beatdown as usual.

The Namekians part in the arc is just starting and you have no idea how strong they will be at their maximum so stop acting as if you do.

Your idea of getting picked for the last tournament fails as Caulifla is definitly stronger than Cabba is.

[supersaiyangodgogeta]

This was already obvious from his feats against Goku, but Vados stated that Jirens power was far beyond comprehension and marcarita stated that he was in a class of his own so we have a direct statement putting him above the angels.

[supercat]

I'm beginning to feel the new Namekians may possibly be even weaker than Botamo. If they were really that strong, wouldn't they have been at the previous tournament instead of Botamo?

Maybe Botamo was chosen for his ability, but Cabba and Frost don't really have such abilities, so these Namekians may even be weaker than Base Cabba and Frost.

If Piccolo easily defeats one, we know they're pretty darn low on the power scale. Well if that happens, it was sort of expected I guess. They had no build up really, were initially shown in the background doing who knows what, and their first big intro was apparently a mere side show. Well I'm all for a good laugh, as long as it doesn't waste too much time or take away from the cooler fights.

So after all that, you expect them to be SSB-tier? Let's be realistic here, they're up against Piccolo.

Caulfla wasn't as much of a warrior as Cabba, so unless you're trying to say these Namekians aren't warriors, the theory could make sense. I think they're probably weaker than Frost and the SSJ forms of the Universe 6 Saiyans but stronger than their base forms. Champa nor Vados never mentioned anything about them either, so I doubt they're above the Saiyans.

How strong are you expecting them to be anyway?

[namekiansaiyan]

I'm beginning to feel the new Namekians may possibly be even weaker than Botamo. If they were really that strong, wouldn't they have been at the previous tournament instead of Botamo?

Maybe Botamo was chosen for his ability, but Cabba and Frost don't really have such abilities, so these Namekians may even be weaker than Base Cabba and Frost.

If Piccolo easily defeats one, we know they're pretty darn low on the power scale. Well if that happens, it was sort of expected I guess. They had no build up really, were initially shown in the background doing who knows what, and their first big intro was apparently a mere side show. Well I'm all for a good laugh, as long as it doesn't waste too much time or take away from the cooler fights.

So after all that, you expect them to be SSB-tier? Let's be realistic here, they're up against Piccolo.

Caulfla wasn't as much of a warrior as Cabba, so unless you're trying to say these Namekians aren't warriors, the theory could make sense. I think they're probably weaker than Frost and the SSJ forms of the Universe 6 Saiyans but stronger than their base forms. Champa nor Vados never mentioned anything about them either, so I doubt they're above the Saiyans.

How strong are you expecting them to be anyway?

You replied to yourself you know and if you are replying to me then yes I do expect them to be strong as I believe in the next episode they are not going full power at all. I think they will be around the Universe 6 Saiyans if not stronger. Every episode we see them they will gradually show more of their strength as I dont think they will start of seriously.

[darzap]

This was already obvious from his feats against Goku, but Vados stated that Jirens power was far beyond comprehension and marcarita stated that he was in a class of his own so we have a direct statement putting him above the angels.

Oh my f**king god. No, we do not have a direct statement putting him above the angels. And I hate the abuse of words like "direct", "proof", "confirmed" (triggered) in this community.

I show you what a direct statement putting somebody above the angels looks like:
"Jiren is stronger than the angels." or "Even I wouldn't stand a chance against Jiren." (if said by an angel)

And indirect statement putting him above the angels could be sth. like: "Only Zeno is beyond him" (given the assumption that the angels are weaker than Zeno).

The statements of Vados and Marcarita are neither.
"He is in a class of his own." is a statement that means that nobody else is in his class. This doesn't mean, that there couldn't be another class above him like GoD-class, angel-class, Zeno-class, or would you want to argue that he is above the two Zenos, because, well if he is in his own class, they can't be in his class either, can they?
"His power is beyond comprehension." does not necessarily imply, that Jiren is stronger than Vados. Champa seems to hardly comprehend anything, yet he still threatened his team with destruction in the third arc and nobody stood up to him.

What you meant to say, was: "This could be interpreted as a hint, that..." , similarly to how YouTube titles say "proof" when they mean "hint" or "grounds for speculation", "confirmed" when they mean "possibly hinted at".

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

This was already obvious from his feats against Goku, but Vados stated that Jirens power was far beyond comprehension and marcarita stated that he was in a class of his own so we have a direct statement putting him above the angels.

Oh my f**king god. No, we do not have a direct statement putting him above the angels. And I hate the abuse of words like "direct", "proof", "confirmed" (triggered) in this community.

I show you what a direct statement putting somebody above the angels looks like:
"Jiren is stronger than the angels." or "Even I wouldn't stand a chance against Jiren." (if said by an angel)

And indirect statement putting him above the angels could be sth. like: "Only Zeno is beyond him" (given the assumption that the angels are weaker than Zeno).

The statements of Vados and Marcarita are neither.
"He is in a class of his own." is a statement that means that nobody else is in his class. This doesn't mean, that there couldn't be another class above him like GoD-class, angel-class, Zeno-class, or would you want to argue that he is above the two Zenos, because, well if he is in his own class, they can't be in his class either, can they?
"His power is beyond comprehension." does not necessarily imply, that Jiren is stronger than Vados. Champa seems to hardly comprehend anything, yet he still threatened his team with destruction in the third arc and nobody stood up to him.

What you meant to say, was: "This could be interpreted as a hint, that..." , similarly to how YouTube titles say "proof" when they mean "hint" or "grounds for speculation", "confirmed" when they mean "possibly hinted at".

^This so much.

Even Whis's statement that the rumour of a mortal that a God of Destruction cannot defeat seems true is at least relatively obvious and upfront and has yet to be contradicted. He even directly says beforehand that Jiren is definitely on the level of a God of Destruction, and may surpass it. Again, still relatively clear and upfront about what's being said, that Jiren is within the power level range of the Gods of Destruction and could potentially be even stronger.