BlueVegerot wrote:Do you have actual evidence of that in the manga? also that promotional manga was for the movie not the show. Again give me proof or just accept you are wrong. You are the one running with headcanon, not to mention toriyama is prone to changing stuff on the fly. so even if the whole OP base was a thing for RoF doesn't mean its there for the rest of the show unless you want to tell me Dabura >> SSG goku vs beerus or a random metalman is far superior to ssg from BoG?
Here's a better question, what is your evidence that Toyo disregarded what happened in Resurrection 'F' when Toyo states that he tries to stick close to Toriyama's outline? And 'Toriyama change stuff' is just as much pushing head-canon since there is no proof of that since he could have easily told the anime staff that he didn't want base form Goku moping true form Freeza. The retellings were his idea, after all, so why would he make such changes?
And again, the thing Dabura happened years ago in the manga since Trunks got Super Saiyan 2 from rage. So Trunk would be stronger than he was when he fought Dabura, so this argument is kinda moot. And random androids were stronger than the strongest being in the universe, so why would it be odd that a Metalman who is one of the strongest in U6 be stronger than Super Saiyan God Goku, who Beerus called lackluster.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.
LightBing wrote:
Is it anime filler? I was talking about the manga and in the manga South Kaioshin doesn't appear, much less able to compete with Kid Boo. He's only mentioned as the strongest Kaioshin.
Yes it is. And South Supreme Kai does appear in a bubble when Shin is talking about him.
My primary point rather you want to argued if South Supreme Kai was equal or on par with Kid Buu is that there is a vast power different between Shin, the weakest Supreme Kai, and South Supreme Kai who was the strongest. So saying that Goku being stronger than Shin isn't impressive ignores that he was the weakest in U7 and the other Kais could be vastly stronger than him.
You filling gaps doesn't make it true. Stronger is just that, stronger. There's a lot of room until Kid Boo level. How many people can you fit in between Kaioshin and Pure Boo in the Boo Arc? There's SSJ2 Goku, SSJ2 Gohan, Dabra, Majin Vegeta, Good Boo, Pre-RoSaT Gotenks. Replace these with the Kaioshins and nobody is close to Kid Boo level.
He might be but don't state it as a fact.
LightBing wrote:
You filling gaps doesn't make it true. Stronger is just that, stronger. There's a lot of room until Kid Boo level. How many people can you fit in between Kaioshin and Pure Boo in the Boo Arc? There's SSJ2 Goku, SSJ2 Gohan, Dabra, Majin Vegeta, Good Boo, Pre-RoSaT Gotenks. Replace these with the Kaioshins and nobody is close to Kid Boo level.
He might be but don't state it as a fact.
The only gaps I filled in was that Shin was much weaker than South Supreme Kai. And if South Supreme Kai was only a little stronger than Shin, why would Buu even bother to absorbed him?
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.
LightBing wrote:
You filling gaps doesn't make it true. Stronger is just that, stronger. There's a lot of room until Kid Boo level. How many people can you fit in between Kaioshin and Pure Boo in the Boo Arc? There's SSJ2 Goku, SSJ2 Gohan, Dabra, Majin Vegeta, Good Boo, Pre-RoSaT Gotenks. Replace these with the Kaioshins and nobody is close to Kid Boo level.
He might be but don't state it as a fact.
The only gaps I filled in was that Shin was much weaker than South Supreme Kai. And if South Supreme Kai was only a little stronger than Shin, why would Buu even bother to absorbed him?
Once gain, he's weaker we don't know how much. Same reason he absorbed Piccolo, maybe?
OLKv3 wrote:Can't wait to see everyone flip out next month when the back tingles appear..
There's really nothing to flip about. From the get go it was pretty obvious the idea was from Mr.Toriyama and the recent interview almost confirmed it. If somebody pulls a "I thought this was Toei's" then they only have themselves to blame.
Zamasu55 wrote:Toyo has fixed 17's power. Perfect.
There was nothing "broken" about Android 17's power because nothing had been established about how strong he could get.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
I too think South Kaioshin is pretty strong, but whether Kid Buu absorbed him or not is irrelevant considering he is absolutely crazy and totally irrational. For all we know he just wanted to, assuming it was based on power (which may be true and I find it a plausible hypothesis since Kid Buu showed some degree of intelligence) is well, an assumption.
He has to be strong in order to fit Muscle Buu > Super Buu > Kid Buu, but I dunno how strong he is.
Zamasu55 wrote:Toyo has fixed 17's power. Perfect.
There was nothing "broken" about Android 17's power because nothing had been established about how strong he could get.
It was 'broken' because fans didn't want to believe 17 got so strong. I mean, we had people claimed that 17 was only around Super Saiyan 2 or 3 Goku's level in the anime because of the Black Hole feat. Ignoring that Goku started to stand up in base form and then went Blue, so by that logic Goku's base form was stronger than 17.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.
The gr wrote:Strange that gohan wasn't suggested in the team yet.
It's so weird. The anime goes out of it way to re-affirm that Gohan is a key player leading up to the tournament. While the manga downplays the hell out of him more than often.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
The gr wrote:Strange that gohan wasn't suggested in the team yet.
It's so weird. The anime goes out of it way to re-affirm that Gohan is a key player leading up to the tournament. While the manga downplays the hell out of him more than often.
Maybe its leading up to Gohan winning the Top,once Jiren takes out Goku,he will be pushed out of the stage by Gohan because Jiren just like Goku forgot Gohan existed.
Lord Beerus wrote:
It's so weird. The anime goes out of it way to re-affirm that Gohan is a key player leading up to the tournament. While the manga downplays the hell out of him more than often.
Maybe its leading up to Gohan winning the Top,once Jiren takes out Goku,he will be pushed out of the stage by Gohan because Jiren just like Goku forgot Gohan existed.
Goku do know gohan existence is just that he think his son is not suited for this.
Maybe gohan wasn't supposed to be special in the first place.
The gr wrote:Strange that gohan wasn't suggested in the team yet.
It's so weird. The anime goes out of it way to re-affirm that Gohan is a key player leading up to the tournament. While the manga downplays the hell out of him more than often.
The gr wrote:The power scaling debate belongs here,that place is more suited for those debates.
Strange that gohan wasn't suggested in the team yet.
He was suggested last chapter, by Vegeta. Goku turned it down
This chapter, Vegeta suggested it again, and Goku turns it down because he's convinced that Gohan isn't a fighter anymore.
Goku doesn't want to force Gohan to do something he doesn't want to do. Piccolo feels offended by it and I guess he's gonna give Goku a scolding for this next chapter.
They're clearly building up Gohan's return to form with this little story.
Last edited by OLKv3 on Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I think the manga is taking a different route with Gohan. Goku at this moment doesn't see him as necessary or an option while Piccolo and Vegeta do. I think they are setting up a clash of Goku vs Gohan where Gohan impresses Goku with his power and changes Goku's mind about him
