Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Draconic]

This thread should get much more interesting now that we are really moving into new territory.

Going by the latest chapter for Super it would seem as though Botama, (that's the name of the bear right?) is at least stronger than Final Form Freeza being that he wasn't able to land a hit on Goku at all.

Freeza did land hits on Goku.

And Goku was not fighting seriously when he got hit.

[LightBing]

Goku should be stronger than when he faced Freeza. We need more chapters to paint a picture, we don't have any power statements yet. Next one should give us a clue. I'm thinking Goku wins without transforming.

[ZombieVito]

This thread should get much more interesting now that we are really moving into new territory.

Going by the latest chapter for Super it would seem as though Botama, (that's the name of the bear right?) is at least stronger than Final Form Freeza being that he wasn't able to land a hit on Goku at all.

Freeza did land hits on Goku.

And Goku was not fighting seriously when he got hit.

Care to share the quote from the episode?

[Bullza]

Well in Super he landed hits on him but in the movie he didn't.

I suppose it depends on what continuity we should take here. In the Toriyama written continuity Frieza didn't land a hit on Goku and Botama did. However in the Super continuity Frieza was more evenly matched with Goku.

[Draconic]

Freeza did land hits on Goku.

And Goku was not fighting seriously when he got hit.

Care to share the quote from the episode?

I meant by Botamo. It's something like he just ate a lot and needed a warm up. Against Freeza he was fighting seriously. I really don't think Botamo is stronger than Freeza, at least for now.

[ZombieVito]

Well in Super he landed hits on him but in the movie he didn't.

I suppose it depends on what continuity we should take here. In the Toriyama written continuity Freeza didn't land a hit on Goku and Botama did. However in the Super continuity Freeza was more evenly matched with Goku.

Super is the only one that really matters since it will follow all of the new arcs in a complete matter.

P.S. Freeza did hit Goku in the movie as well.

[Bullza]

Well Toriyama would have wrote it as a continuation of the movie and not the saga which is Toei's adaptation of the movie.

It either go Manga -> Movies -> Universe 6 arc of Super or Manga -> Super.

I don't remember Final Form Frieza hitting Base Goku, I just remember Piccolo's line about him not being hit once.

[ZombieVito]

Even though I like the movie I'll take Manga --> Super for consistency sake.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2V-4jTR ... u.be&t=563

It's nothing mayor but it is a hit.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Even though I like the movie I'll take Manga --> Super for consistency sake.

The Super anime up until now follows the DBZ/Kai anime though.

[ZombieVito]

Even though I like the movie I'll take Manga --> Super for consistency sake.

The Super anime up until now follows the DBZ/Kai anime though.

You're right but nothing of the little filler from DBZ they included causes problems so I let it slide.

To be honest I take Super because it's just the better version of the events.

[Sandubadear]

Even though I like the movie I'll take Manga --> Super for consistency sake.

The Super anime up until now follows the DBZ/Kai anime though.

Your right but nothing of the little filler from DBZ they included causes problems so I let it slide.

To be honest I take Super because it's just the better version of the events.

Also, Super doesn't have all those inconsistencies of the movies. Bulma's age, Shenron with 2 wishes, etc.

[Birusu16]

This thread should get much more interesting now that we are really moving into new territory.

Going by the latest chapter for Super it would seem as though Botama, (that's the name of the bear right?) is at least stronger than Final Form Freeza being that he wasn't able to land a hit on Goku at all.

Botamo wouldn't have landed any hits if Goku was actually ready for the fight. It's specifically stated in the chapter that he had to work off all the food he hate hence the sluggish start where Botamo landed that one blow, so I still wouldn't place him anywhere near base Goku. Goku was treating him like a joke the entire time.

Now that will likely change once we see his true power, but what he showed in the recent chapter certainly doesn't warrant a placement anywhere near base Goku.

Oh and Freeza landed plenty of hits on Goku in their fight in Super, which is the continuity that's likely being followed.

[Bullza]

Been going through the whole RoF arc and I still cant place base Goku and Vegeta in relation to SSJG. Vegeta and Goku look to have been on Beerus' planet for months and both Whis and Beerus comment on how much they'd improved before they went in the wannabe ROSAT.

So they'd obviously got a lot stronger but compared to what I couldn't say.

*Deleted some stuff I reiterated in the next post*

[Bullza]

I don't like to double post but now I've thought of even more things to ponder and I didn't want to make one jumbo sized post.

So here's what I don't get. In the BoG arc Goku becomes a Super Saiyan God, the others couldn't sense his Ki anymore. The time limit runs out, he returns to normal, the others could now sense his Ki again. He apparently doesn't lose any power because he's absorbed/merged with the SSJG power.

In the RoF arc Goku fights Frieza, he becomes a Super Saiyan Blue, his Ki disappears again. Then they start talking about him being a Super Saiyan God again and him getting even stronger. King Kai makes a mention of how he could now turn into a Super Saiyan God on his own and what kind of training he must have done.

If Goku had supposedly already absorbed the power of a SSJG then why would he possibly need to train in order to learn to become a SSJG on his own?

Goku tells Frieza he's "a Saiyan with the power of a Super Saiyan God as a Super Saiyan" but the "as a Super Saiyan" bit is secondary because all they mention is that he'd become a SSJG now. When he transforms he seems to be tapping into both his SSJG and SSJ power but I don't see why he would need to tap into SSJG power if he's supposed to permanently have that power anyway, SSJB should just be him turning Super Saiyan shouldn't it? But there's obviously more to it than that if he's also becoming a God aswell.

On top of all this if Goku was not a God prior to transforming then Vegeta would not be a God either in his base form. So then why is he able to sense Whis' God Ki?

[Khin]

Been going through the whole RoF arc and I still cant place base Goku and Vegeta in relation to SSJG. Vegeta and Goku look to have been on Beerus' planet for months and both Whis and Beerus comment on how much they'd improved before they went in the wannabe ROSAT.

So they'd obviously got a lot stronger but compared to what I couldn't say.

*Deleted some stuff I reiterated in the next post*

I also have Base Goku and Vegeta above Super Saiyan God due to Beerus' and Whis' statement but i'm not using the 6-10-15 anymore.

For your second post.

Super Saiyan God = A Saiyan with ''God Ki''

Post God SSj/Saiyan Beyond God = A Saiyan with God Ki but can't access it for some reason.

SSjBlue = Super Saiyan + God Ki

And also

Minute: 17
Context: Whis provides highly detailed expository dialogue.
Oracle Fish: "Maybe your training is a bit too tough? At this rate, those two are going to die. You could at least have them become those "Super Saiyan" things."
Whis: "That wouldn't do, at all."
Oracle Fish: "It wouldn't?"
Whis: "Those two have just barely reached the level where they can sense the ki of a god. If that castle up there were the level of the gods, then their power is only about this high. They need to raise the level of their ki without becoming Super Saiyan. Otherwise, they won't be able to grow much stronger, since they won't be able to see the realm which lies ahead. Most likely, those two realize this themselves. After all, I never once told them not to become Super Saiyans."
Oracle Fish: "Well, whatever. Just don't kill them."

Whis made it looked like sensing God Ki is possible even if you're not a god but only if you're strong enough.

[Bullza]

So when Goku says a Super Saiyan Blue is "a Saiyan with the power of a Super Saiyan God as a Super Saiyan" then him having absorbed the power of a Super Saiyan God doesn't count as a part of that? God Ki specifically is required?

If Goku in base form simply tapped into his Super Saiyan God power only then would he be exactly the same power level wise but his Ki would disappear? If so then wouldn't Goku just turning into a regular Super Saiyan just be the same as what a Super Saiyan Blue is?

Whis made it looked like sensing God Ki is possible even if you're not a god but only if you're strong enough.

At one point I thought characters had to be at a high enough level for them to be able to sense God Ki and that's why they couldn't sense someone like SSJG Goku. However they could apparently still sense Goku's Ki when he was fighting Final Form Frieza who should be around that level according to some.

[Khin]

So when Goku says a Super Saiyan Blue is "a Saiyan with the power of a Super Saiyan God as a Super Saiyan" then him having absorbed the power of a Super Saiyan God doesn't count as a part of that? God Ki specifically is required?

If Goku in base form simply tapped into his Super Saiyan God power only then would he be exactly the same power level wise but his Ki would disappear? If so then wouldn't Goku just turning into a regular Super Saiyan just be the same as what a Super Saiyan Blue is?

Perhaps SSjBlue adds a little bit of boost ? Who knows or Toriyama just got tired of the Yellow SSj and want something fresh.

At one point I thought characters had to be at a high enough level for them to be able to sense God Ki and that's why they couldn't sense someone like SSJG Goku. However they could apparently still sense Goku's Ki when he was fighting Final Form Freeza who should be around that level according to some.

What i'm' saying is that mortal beings can sense people with ''Godly Ki'' if they'e strong enough.Goten and the others can sense Goku's Ki back when he lost his God from because Goku is no longer a God and Gohan and the others can also sense Final Form Freeza because obviously,Freeza is not a God.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

If Goku had supposedly already absorbed the power of a SSJG then why would he possibly need to train in order to learn to become a SSJG on his own?

As we saw against Beerus, even though Goku was as strong as he was while in SSG, he didn't have godly ki anymore. He may be a Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan God, but he isn't a god, he can sense the ki of gods only because he is strong enough to do it, not because he has it as well. But after doing training, by becoming a Super Saiyan (who's a Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan God), he gets the godly ki back, and also becomes even stronger than he was as a Super Saiyan God.

[Pannaliciour]

Even though I like the movie I'll take Manga --> Super for consistency sake.

The Super anime up until now follows the DBZ/Kai anime though.

You're right but nothing of the little filler from DBZ they included causes problems so I let it slide.

To be honest I take Super because it's just the better version of the events.

Which filler? Or do you mean the filler in kai?

Btw, Goku hasn't even power up for the fight against the Bear. No aura (base).

[ZombieVito]

Which filler? Or do you mean the filler in kai?

Btw, Goku hasn't even power up for the fight against the Bear. No aura.

Gregory, Satan's assistants and that pink Namekian frog.