"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[ekrolo2]

How funny and likely would Black dying at the hands of Goku or Vegeta in the next two episodes, without using SSJB be?

In my opinion, not that unlikely... It all could end with a shrug(until the true Big Bad appears). Maybe that's why they're being so secretive and yet decided to show us Black Goku. Kinda counterproductive, unless they preparing for a big surprise and playing the long game.

A legitimate Dark Goku is something people have wanted for a long time. If they kill him off so early I'd be disappointed. One thing I could see happening is that at some point Goku is pushed to his limit and tries that Kaio-Ken again....but doesn't defeat Black and loses his Ki Control "Forever". Of course it wouldnt really be forever...it would be temporary just to make the situation look dire.

Goku having to cope with his ki not working properly and actually bonding with Pan is the only time his character became even remotely interesting in Super so this is a development I would be a-okay with.

[kinisking]

How funny and likely would Black dying at the hands of Goku or Vegeta in the next two episodes, without using SSJB be?

In my opinion, not that unlikely... It all could end with a shrug(until the true Big Bad appears). Maybe that's why they're being so secretive and yet decided to show us Black Goku. Kinda counterproductive, unless they preparing for a big surprise and playing the long game.

A legitimate Dark Goku is something people have wanted for a long time. If they kill him off so early I'd be disappointed. One thing I could see happening is that at some point Goku is pushed to his limit and tries that Kaio-Ken again....but doesn't defeat Black and loses his Ki Control "Forever". Of course it wouldnt really be forever...it would be temporary just to make the situation look dire.

Goku having to cope with his ki not working properly and actually bonding with Pan is the only time his character became even remotely interesting in Super so this is a development I would be a-okay with.

Most likely a toei invention but damn I loved that. For once he had to listen to his other roles in life. He became so addicted to battle it was nice to see him that way. Would've also been a great way to sideline him for other characters to shine in battle.

[sailorspazz]

Another tweet from Eiko Yamada. Can someone translate this, please?:



Link: https://twitter.com/eiko751/status/745259123437035520

No information there, just her response to a fan's tweet about how they enjoyed the Pilaf gang's role in the episode, how they look forward to seeing them more (additional fan gushing, etc.). She replies that Dragon Ball is powering up more and more, and Mai's involved, too.

[HECTOR4]

No information there, just her response to a fan's tweet about how they enjoyed the Pilaf gang's role in the episode, how they look forward to seeing them more (additional fan gushing, etc.). She replies that Dragon Ball is powering up more and more, and Mai's involved, too.

OK, thank you ^^

[Captain Space]

Really, it always has been.

It seems like they're targeting toddlers this time as well.

I think that's just 'cutesy' which, while tonally jarring, is also a wider-reaching appeal over there than toddlers.

Someone from Toei said that's the main target.

Really, it always has been.

Just like the rest of Dragon Ball.

That's what I meant, yes.

[TheMikado]

Most likely a toei invention but damn I loved that. For once he had to listen to his other roles in life. He became so addicted to battle it was nice to see him that way. Would've also been a great way to sideline him for other characters to shine in battle.

You just made me realize one of the best parts of the Buu arc was watching Goku sit and watch helpless and anxiously while someone else fought to save the world. Probably my personal favorite development.

[Cetra]

Most likely a toei invention but damn I loved that. For once he had to listen to his other roles in life. He became so addicted to battle it was nice to see him that way. Would've also been a great way to sideline him for other characters to shine in battle.

You just made me realize one of the best parts of the Buu arc was watching Goku sit and watch helpless and anxiously while someone else fought to save the world. Probably my personal favorite development.

And we all know what happened. Nothing good.

[dbs fanboy]

It would've been so much better if it was something like this.

i'd love to see that in dbs.

[Gyt Kaliba]

I'm actually still really surprised that Goku's energy control issues got resolved so fast, yeah. I thought for sure that it was going to be the start of a new take on Toriyama's old 'sideline Goku long enough for other characters to do stuff' trick that he's been doing for years (and if you kind of squint, he kinda pulled it off in each arc of the new material too, sorta). I'm still not entirely sure it won't be either - maybe fighting Black, or something Black can do, causes a relapse of sorts.

[Noah]

How funny and likely would Black dying at the hands of Goku or Vegeta in the next two episodes, without using SSJB be?

I don't want Black to die, but if he do... Well I hope he spits bloods in their faces, just like Raditz did with Piccolo.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I'm actually still really surprised that Goku's energy control issues got resolved so fast, yeah. I thought for sure that it was going to be the start of a new take on Toriyama's old 'sideline Goku long enough for other characters to do stuff' trick that he's been doing for years (and if you kind of squint, he kinda pulled it off in each arc of the new material too, sorta). I'm still not entirely sure it won't be either - maybe fighting Black, or something Black can do, causes a relapse of sorts.

Kaio-ken Super Saiyan Blue & the ki illness are all Toei's ideas, so I don't find it surprising at all.

[Luso Saiyan]

Kaio-ken Super Saiyan Blue & the ki illness are all Toei's ideas

How do you know that?

[sintzu]

Kaio-ken Super Saiyan Blue & the ki illness are all Toei's ideas

How do you know that?

Toriyama is more involved with the manga and it wasn't in it so if it never shows up again in the anime then we'll know for sure it was Toei's idea.

[Pannaliciour]

Kaio-ken Super Saiyan Blue & the ki illness are all Toei's ideas

How do you know that?

Toriyama is more involved with the manga and it wasn't in it so if it never shows up again in the anime then we'll know for sure it was Toei's idea.

And if super saiyen god never shows up in the anime or manga? That means it wasn't Toriyama's idea.

Toriyama is more involved with the manga? Thats not true. The story he wrote was month ago. Toei has worked month ago for the goku black arc. Anime is way ahead of the manga at this moment. Manga was just a adaption of the anime.

[Grimlock]

In Toriyama's idea Goku absorbed the power of Super Saiyan God and because of that, there's no need for him to transform into the form again. So even the manga is someone else's idea.

[LightBing]

Only plot points common in both formats should be considerate from Mr.Toriyama. SSJG return and the Kaioken are very likely Toyotarõ and Toei exclusive ideas.

[Zephyr]

And if super saiyen god never shows up in the anime or manga? That means it wasn't Toriyama's idea.

Toriyama is more involved with the manga? Thats not true. The story he wrote was month ago. Toei has worked month ago for the goku black arc. Anime is way ahead of the manga at this moment. Manga was just a adaption of the anime.

Toriyama's draft was probably sparse on details regarding the fight, to the extent that Toyotaro and Toei had to fill in the blanks on their own. Likely similar to how he left the details of "Z Senshi vs Freeza's minions" in F up to the animators.

We have an example of Toriyma correcting a manga panel, and him correcting literally nothing for the anime. We have an official translation stating that the anime staff use Toyotaro's manga panels as reference. This is all months-old information.

[Gyt Kaliba]

As far as I know, we have absolutely no confirmation on what is or isn't Toriyama's direct ideas beyond the most broad strokes of the story, IE 'there's another God of Destruction and he and Beerus gather fighters for a tournament' for example.

I'd also assume, until we actually have concrete statements made, that his 'higher involvement' with the manga is debatable as well. All we really know (again, unless I missed something) is that he overlooks the drafts that Toyotaro puts together. It's only natural he'd be even further involved in that side of things, because he's a manga-ka himself. Much of the anime production, especially as rushed as it's been would be far more foreign to him by comparison.

It's fine to prefer the manga version (though for myself at least, it's basically just an advertisement for the anime), but until we have more solid statements, trying to say it's closer to Toriyama's vision based on what statements we do have just sounds like overly assuming.

[Zephyr]

until we have more solid statements, trying to say it's closer to Toriyama's vision based on what statements we do have just sounds like overly assuming.

To be fair, every reliable source on the matter seems to indicate Toriyama having a higher opinion of the manga and a lower opinion of the anime, which seems to push that assumption farther into the territory of induction. Certainly still debatable though.

[Gyt Kaliba]

until we have more solid statements, trying to say it's closer to Toriyama's vision based on what statements we do have just sounds like overly assuming.

To be fair, every reliable source on the matter seems to indicate Toriyama having a higher opinion of the manga and a lower opinion of the anime, which seems to push that assumption farther into the territory of induction. Certainly still debatable though.

That much is true, yeah. I basically just mean such concrete statements as 'small plot point A was Toei's, plot point B's was Toriyama's' stuff. There's plenty of stuff in filler in Z, at least early on, that people would never have thought actually came from Toriyama if it weren't for us having statements as such, after all.