The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[Lord Beerus]

Imperfect Cell (pre-absorptions) vs Meta Cooler

Imperfect Cell (post-absorptions) vs Meta Cooler army

Future Androids 17 and 18 vs. 2 Meta Coolers

- Metal Cooler annihilates
- Cell sweeps aside the army of Metal Coolers like a bunch of dry, old leafs
- Pretty close fight, but Metal Cooler hax regeneration give them an advantage. So I'm backing the Coolers.

The only people who Toriyama said that train during their off time is Piccolo, Goku & Vegeta. Only those three should be making gains, the rest should either stay as strong as they are or grow weaker.

Goku Ssj4 (Buu Saga) vs Gotenks Ssj Post-ROST

Gotenks Ssj4 (Buu Saga) vs Super Vegetto

Goku SsjG3 (RoSaT) vs Semi-Perfect Cell

Perfect Cell (vs Goku) + Goku MSsj vs Kid Gohan Ssj

- Gotenks takes this comfortably
- Super Vegetto one shots
- If speed isn't a factor to take into consideration, then Goku. But if speed is a factor then, then I see Cell taking advantage of Goku's lack of mobility and killing him.
- Kid Gohan kicks both their assess.

[Captain Space]

Imperfect Cell (pre-absorptions) vs Meta Cooler

Imperfect Cell (post-absorptions) vs Meta Cooler army

Future Androids 17 and 18 vs. 2 Meta Coolers

Cell; Vegeta's dialogue after the Piccolo vs. Cell fight implies that Cell was stronger than an android arc Super Saiyan, whereas Cooler was somewhere around their level. They have similar special abilities.

The Coolers. They can all regenerate and upgrade, they'll wear him down eventually.

The power gap shouldn't be too high, so I guess the self-repairing Coolers?

Goku Ssj4 (Buu Saga) vs Gotenks Ssj Post-ROST

Gotenks Ssj4 (Buu Saga) vs Super Vegetto

Goku SsjG3 (RoSaT) vs Semi-Perfect Cell

Perfect Cell (vs Goku) + Goku MSsj vs Kid Gohan Ssj

Both SSJ3 Goku and SSJ Gotenks were between Fat Buu and Super Buu's level; the kind of boost SSJ4 provides should let Goku win, especially considering his other advantages (skill, experience, no/less time limit).

Honestly, probably Vegetto. He's supposedly as powerful as SSJ4 Goku, and Gotenks is nowhere near as strong as GT Goku.

Goku's speed is probably equal to Cell's at worst. With his insane strength, Goku can take this.

Given how long Goku was able to fight Cell at the level Cell was using at the time; given he has help from a stronger ally, the heroes should win here. EDIT: Oh wait, sorry, read the teams wrong. Gohan, unless he doesn't want to fight them in which case they beat on him pretty easily.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Goku Ssj4 (Buu Saga) vs Gotenks Ssj Post-ROST

I don't know, really. If Goku's brought to his limits, I guess he'd be around the level of his End of Z Super Saiyan 3 self. (Which I believe to be Goku's limits besides his God powers.) At that level I'd like to think he can stomp the shit out of Gotenks. He'd lose to Super Saiyan 2, though.

Gotenks Ssj4 (Buu Saga) vs Super Vegetto

SS4 Gotenks would beat even a SS4 Vegetto, in my opinion.

Goku SsjG3 (RoSaT) vs Semi-Perfect Cell

Gohan only sensed 2nd form Cell's initial power, not full power, so with lack of confirmation of Goku surpassing 2nd form Cell's full power coupled with SSG3's ridiculous drawbacks, I think Cell could wear Goku down and win. I'd give the raw power advantage to Goku, but not by that much.

Perfect Cell (vs Goku) + Goku MSsj vs Kid Gohan Ssj

FPSS Goku: 10
Cell (vs. Goku): 11.25
FPSS Gohan: 15

I have something like this, so if Gohan goes all out he'd win.

[supercat]

Imperfect Cell (pre-absorptions) vs Meta Cooler

Imperfect Cell (post-absorptions) vs Meta Cooler army

Future Androids 17 and 18 vs. 2 Meta Coolers

-Meta-Cooler effortlessly one-shots the biological android and incinerates every last one of his cells.

-The odds may still be in Meta-Cooler's favor, but it won't be as easy of a fight. As a matter of fact, without the Big Ghetti Star readily accessible, the metallic tyrant may actually end up losing. We really don't have much to go by aside from the fact that both he and Imperfect Cell were able to one-shot an exhausted Piccolo. The way I see it, initial Meta-Cooler would lose instantly, while his new and improved counterpart would probably win after a good fight.

-Same as above. Initial Meta-Cooler goes down pretty quickly, while the upgraded version turns androids 17 and 18 into a pile of mechanical junk.

[Galan007]

Question:
Aside from Beerus stating that Freeza>base Goku, is there any additional evidence which implies this? I'm currently having a debate with someone on another forum, who seems to think that Beerus' assessment of Goku's power means nothing, because "Beerus can't sense ki." He seems to think Beerus is just some random ock who spews inaccurate facts for no reason, and won't accept the notion that base Goku at the start of BoG was still sub-Freeza-level. It's very irritating, and makes me appreciate the intelligence on this forum even moreso.

Anyway, thanks in advance for any help.

[supercat]

Question:
Aside from Beerus stating that Freeza>base Goku, is there any additional evidence which implies this? I'm currently having a debate with someone on another forum, who seems to think that Beerus' assessment of Goku's power means nothing, because "Beerus can't sense ki." He seems to think Beerus is just some random ock who spews inaccurate facts for no reason, and won't accept the notion that base Goku at the start of BoG was still sub-Freeza-level. It's very irritating, and makes me appreciate the intelligence on this forum even moreso.

Anyway, thanks in advance for any help.

There really isn't much else that provides any evidence for either side of the debate. That said, if Beerus' statement wasn't meant to hold any value, the scene itself would likely have been excluded altogether.

Some people like to throw out the fact that Trunks and Goten gave Android 18 heaps of trouble at the tournament, but quite frankly, a restricted fight in a stadium setting is not the best measuring stick for gauging power in my opinion.

As I've indicated in an earliest post, with a number of different non-canon scenes showing Frieza miserably getting owned and/or the Base Saiyans miraculously holding their own against Frieza level fighters, it's really easy to get caught up in the whole mindset that the emperor of evil is now among the lengthy list of unworthy fodders.

Because the efficacy of Zenkais have presumably diminished after the tyrant's defeat, I'm inclined to believe that the focus has shifted from mindlessly training and simply growing stronger, to building up on their transformations and amplifying their strength through different variations of Super Saiyan.

[Noah]

New matches: (equal power, limited stamina)

- Base Gohan (Boo Arc) x Oob (GT)
- Dr. Gero x Jeice & Burter
- Final Form Cooler x Base Vegetto
- Mirai Gohan x Nail
- Nam x Captain Ginyu
- Oozaru Bardock x Oozaru Nappa
- Piccolo (Boo Arc) x SSJ3 Gotenks
- Son Gohan (Uranai Baba Arc) x SSJ3 Goku
- Super Perfect Cell x Fat Boo
- Yajirobe x Mirai Trunks (first appearance)
- Zangya vs Salza

[Lord Beerus]

New matches: (equal power, limited stamina)

- Base Gohan (Boo Arc) x Oob (GT)
- Dr. Gero x Jeice & Burter
- Final Form Cooler x Base Vegetto
- Mirai Gohan x Nail
- Nam x Captain Ginyu
- Oozaru Bardock x Oozaru Nappa
- Piccolo (Boo Arc) x SSJ3 Gotenks
- Son Gohan (Uranai Baba Arc) x SSJ3 Goku
- Super Perfect Cell x Fat Boo
- Yajirobe x Mirai Trunks (first appearance)
- Zangya vs Salza

- Oob learned combat under Goku and was show to be quite savvy in battle, in comparison, Gohan is not that pragmatic of smart in battle. So I'm backing Oob.
- Jeice and Burters effective as a team will be the difference maker.
- Vegetto
- Nail
- Ginyu mortally wounds himself and switches bodies with Nam.
- It could either way, but my gut tells me Bardock as he's the more seasoned fighter.
- Gotenks fucks around too much and Piccolo catches him off gaurd with a well time Makankōsappō
- Goku
- Trunks kills Yajirobe before Yajirobe and even draw his sword. Yeah, he's that no nonsense in battle.
- Fat Boo turns SPC into candy
- Could go either way. My gut tells me Zangya.

[dbzfan7]

New matches: (equal power, limited stamina)

- Base Gohan (Boo Arc) x Oob (GT)
- Dr. Gero x Jeice & Burter
- Final Form Cooler x Base Vegetto
- Mirai Gohan x Nail
- Nam x Captain Ginyu
- Oozaru Bardock x Oozaru Nappa
- Piccolo (Boo Arc) x SSJ3 Gotenks
- Son Gohan (Uranai Baba Arc) x SSJ3 Goku
- Super Perfect Cell x Fat Boo
- Yajirobe x Mirai Trunks (first appearance)
- Zangya vs Salza

-Gohan is rusty at this point and Oob would be in peak condition. He wins.
-Gero if he can steal their energy and get stronger, the team if they don't fall for his ploys.
-Vegetto is far more skilled than Cooler is most likely.
-I don't think it's ever said how skilled Nail is. Though since this Gohan only trained with Piccolo for a year, and then himself, I'll say Nail more likely has better training or a longer period of it.
-Ginyu I think being a space warrior has had more experience and can body switch if things go wrong for him.
-Nappa I think is more skilled, unless it's FOG Bardock in which case Bardock is more skilled probably.
-The SSJ3 strain cripples Gotenks as he only has 5 minutes. Piccolo can beat him.
-The SSJ3 strain cripples Goku and even though he's more skilled, I bet Gramps can outlast and beat him.
-Fat Boo is really hard to kill. Not only that but he can learn Cell's moves by watching them once and make them his own. So any skill gap can be closed. Boo also can instantly finish him via turning him into chocolate, which bypasses Cell's regen. Boo gets a yummy treat.
-I think Trunks. Not really sure how much training Yajirobe has beyond just being really strong. Yajirobe also has no skills beyond sword play which Trunks has, and can blast him to smithereens.
-Salza I guess cause Zangya was sealed up for sometime, while Salza was out fighting for Cooler. So I guess he wins based on that.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Krillin (Trunks' arrival) vs. 1st form Freeza

[Lord Beerus]

Krillin (Trunks' arrival) vs. 1st form Freeza

Freeza still wins this one. But Krillin gives Freeza a serious run for his money, as the gap in power between the two of them is not that large in my opinion.

Actually, on second thought, considering that Krillin's last recorded BP was 75,000 was still rising at that stage, I'd say that his BP would have cracked the million barrier by the time that Trunks arrived. So actually, I think Krillin takes this.

[Galan007]

Krillin (Trunks' arrival) vs. 1st form Freeza

Depends how long after the Namek saga Krillin's BP continued to rise for. His last recorded BP=75k, so it would've had to increase by an additional 7x within that year-long hiatus for Krillin to contend with 1st form Freeza. I suppose it's possible(even though Krillin didn't seem to have trained within that time), but people tend to invoke somewhat of a no-limits fallacy onto the "steadily rising" clause... Which I don't care for.

Either way, I completely disagree with Krillin having a BP over a million when Mecha-Freeza/King Cold/Trunks arrived on Earth. That's just too much of a boost, imo.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Well I go with Krillin topping out at around 450,000 on Namek personally. I have him starting at 320,000 and then rising to 450,000 by the time Piccolo arrives. The anime filler has him training into the Trunks saga so I go with it since it doesn't contradict anything. I don't mind if one disregards it, though. It is just anime filler.

[ZombieVito]

Krillin (Trunks' arrival) vs. 1st form Freeza

Freeza raises his finger and Kuririn explodes.

New Battle:

Piccolo (EoZ + Elder Kaioshin Potential Unlock) vs Dabura.

[Lord Beerus]

Piccolo (EoZ + Elder Kaioshin Potential Unlock) vs Dabura.

I question how much potential there really is left to unlock in Piccolo. I honestly think may have hit his eternal glass ceiling in the Cell arc after training in the ROSAT. I mean, if there was ever a time that his power level would have increased significantly, it would have been after training in the ROAST. But even then he was still no match for Cell and was still below the Super Saiyans at that time. Honestly, I still see Dabra winning. But, if there is some potential left in Piccolo and Edler Kai is able to max out his strength like he did for Gohan, I see him reaching SSJ2 Kid Gohan level. And then, he stomps Dabra. But that is still a big "if".

[Galan007]

Piccolo (EoZ + Elder Kaioshin Potential Unlock) vs Dabura.

Dabra.

Personally, I don't think Piccolo ever approached Perfect Cell-level.

[RandomGuy96]

Krillin (Trunks' arrival) vs. 1st form Freeza

Freeza raises his finger and Kuririn explodes.

New Battle:

Piccolo (EoZ + Elder Kaioshin Potential Unlock) vs Dabura.

I don't think Piccolo has any notable potential. 7 years of straight training seems to have barely changed his power, and he even declined the chance to go back in the ROSAT because it would be useless. He's topped out at this point in terms of major gains. I don't think the boost would be huge; maybe x2 or something. Dabra stomps.

Even if he did have a lot of potential, he'd still lose. Remember the Piccolo vs Dabra fight that actually happened? I see something similar to that taking place even if Piccolo is strong enough to win.

[supercat]

Krillin (Trunks' arrival) vs. 1st form Freeza

With such little information pertaining to power levels after the events on Namek, it's really hard to determine how far along Krillin has progressed. I could envision him hitting that 500,000 - 800,000 range sometime between the Cell Games and the arrival of Buu, but obtaining that kind of power as early as Trunks' debut seems a bit far-fetched.

[KentalSSJ6]

So I posted this in a DBZ facebook group first and lets just say the shit hit the fan rather fast, so hopefully things will go smoother here.



Six Paths Naruto runs a gauntlet from the start of Dragonball. How far do you think he goes? Now my Naruto is rusty but I think he'd stop at Raditz. Thoughts?

[SSJ God Gogeta]

I can see Roshi kicking his ass.