Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[majinwarman]

I really don't know how strong Ultimate Gohan is meant to be. He'd be stronger than before but as strong as Super Saiyan Blue? I really don't know. After all it looked like Kale was a match for Super Saiyan Blue at one point and look how that turned out.

Who turns if Goku was severely holding back or not, same with Android 17.

Forgetting that though. Pirina looked like he wasn't far off from Ultimate Gohan's level. Saonel probably the same.

Piccolo? I have no idea, he seemed weaker normally but with the Special Beam Cannon he was able to overpower him. Pretty much the same circumstance when he fought Frost.

Goku broke out of a black hole which is a very impressive feat. Even Base Goku was able to get up unlike the Androids. I know in any Goku vs Superman debates people bring up the black hole thing in favour of Superman. Well I guess now Goku can do something similar.

The three from Universe 2 didn't seem too impressive, I'll need to double check.

I think Ulimate Gohan is in Blue tier but where is hard to gauge. Piccolo looks to be stronger than before but not Gohan or U6 Namekians level. That Black hole feat is very impressive. Other than that it looks like same old ,same old.

[namekiansaiyan]

Seriously, I don't remember anyone questioning 17/18 > SSJ Goku > Final Form Frieza back then, so not sure why Buu deserves all this hype. The amount of hype Buu gets at this point makes Broly's hype seem like humble modesty.

What hype? I honestly have no clue what you're talking about. Debates like these typically tend to focus on whether or not Buu is relevant, not whether he's some top tier fighter in Super -- I'm pretty sure everyone and their mother agrees that he isn't.

The points that you've brought up have been discussed countless times in this thread by myself and others, and the reason I specifically responded to your post was just to point out that there's really no need to beat a dead horse after every week. It's especially jarring on your part because Buu isn't even a part of the tournament, so we wouldn't really know for sure how well he would fare against all these fighters either way.

But we have a series of battles that strongly imply how Buu would fare against some of these fighters. Again, even if we assume current Ultimate Gohan is only on par with his Ultimate self from the Buu saga, Sanoel and Pirina would still at least be stronger than Super Buu by a good margin. Buu saga Ultimate Gohan treated Super Buu like some joke, while the same Ultimate Gohan that gave SSB Goku a good fight wasn't even able to gain a notable advantage against Saonel and Pirina.

And Buu is hyped... I still see people place the Base Saiyans and several others, namely Universe 6 Saiyans below Buu.

I also don't recall anyone countlessly discussing Sanoel and Pirina >>> Buu, so overall, it seems like a pretty fresh topic to me.

Pirina and Saonel will be stronger the next time we see them as the fusions hadn't fully worked yet.

[Marlowe89]

But we have a series of battles that strongly imply how Buu would fare against some of these fighters.

Which is exactly what I was referring to when I mentioned that these points have been discussed at length. The whole "skinny Buu vs. base Goku" skirmish in particular was an extensive topic of discussion for weeks with wildly varying conclusions.

And Buu is hyped... I still see people place the Base Saiyans and several others, namely Universe 6 Saiyans below Buu.

I don't think you understand what that word means. People placing the base Saiyans below Buu doesn't automatically mean those people are "hyping" Buu. Literally all that represents is someone's personal opinion based on how they interpreted the series' power-scaling, which is hardly as open and shut as it was in Z.

[supercat]

But we have a series of battles that strongly imply how Buu would fare against some of these fighters.

Which is exactly what I was referring to when I mentioned that these points have been discussed at length. The whole "skinny Buu vs. base Goku" skirmish in particular was an extensive topic of discussion for weeks with wildly varying conclusions.

And Buu is hyped... I still see people place the Base Saiyans and several others, namely Universe 6 Saiyans below Buu.

I don't think you understand what that word means. People placing the base Saiyans below Buu doesn't automatically mean those people are "hyping" Buu. Literally all that represents is someone's personal opinion based on how they interpreted the series' power-scaling, which is hardly as open and shut as it was in Z.

You disregard everything but the least relevant of my points. Buu vs Base Goku was but one small part in supporting my stance on the matter. Ultimate Gohan giving SSB Goku a good fight, along with Ultimate Gohan barely taking on Saonel and Pirina, and even almost losing are all pretty strong implications to me that all fighters in discussion are leagues above any form of Buu.

Hype to me is when a farfetched opinion is clung onto despite a large amount of feats and implications that show otherwise. I don't want this to turn into another Base Saiyans discussion, so we can just stop here. If I sat here and listed every instance that seemingly placed the Base Saiyans above Buu, it would take far too long. But for starters, Buu vs Base Goku, Base Goku vs Final Form Frieza, Base Goku vs Beerus, Base Goku vs Monaka-Beerus, Base Copy Vegeta vs SSJ3 Gotenks, are all enough for me to believe Base Saiyans >>>> Buu.

[The gr]

Yay we've reached 1000 pages,keep it up.

How do saonel & pirina stand in comparison to kale & caulifla.

[Bullza]

Yay we've reached 1000 pages,keep it up.

How do saonel & pirina stand in comparison to kale & caulifla.

Oh yeah, almost a whopping 20,000 posts. Sometime next year this thread might even have a million views.

Saonel and Pirina if they're on par with Ultimate Gohan should be stronger than Super Saiyan 2 Caulifla who is only on par with Super Saiyan 2 Goku.

I'm not sure about Kale though because she would have been stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Goku. She even held her own against Super Saiyan God.

If Ultimate Gohan is actually on par with Super Saiyan Blue Goku then Saonel and Pirina would be a lot stronger than the Saiyans. They'd be more on the level of Base Kefla perhaps.

[Marlowe89]

Wow, 1,000 pages already? I should probably congratulate everyone for reaching this milestone.

You disregard everything but the least relevant of my points. Buu vs Base Goku was but one small part in supporting my stance on the matter. Ultimate Gohan giving SSB Goku a good fight, along with Ultimate Gohan barely taking on Saonel and Pirina, and even almost losing are all pretty strong implications to me that all fighters in discussion are leagues above any form of Buu.

I'm not really disregarding any of the points that were previously debated upon here, like base Goku and skinny Buu or Ultimate Gohan and SSB Goku. You're entirely free to believe whatever you want, and that's not even what I take issue with, but the frequent posting about Buu from your end just seems a bit bizarre to me. I think it's probably wiser to just accept that people have differing views on Super's power-scaling, especially as (again) this series operates on much more debatable premises and even basic mechanics than Z ever did.

If Saonel and Pirina are strong enough to contend with Ultimate Gohan, then yes, that would mean that they should be able to give Buu a run for his money. I can agree on that much.

If I sat here and listed every instance that seemingly placed the Base Saiyans above Buu, it would take far too long. But for starters, Buu vs Base Goku, Base Goku vs Final Form Frieza, Base Goku vs Beerus, Base Goku vs Monaka-Beerus, Base Copy Vegeta vs SSJ3 Gotenks, are all enough for me to believe Base Saiyans >>>> Buu.

Which have all been discussed repeatedly, which was my point.

[Kenneth La Torre]

Gohan didnt have a scratch from that battle at the end. He was handling the both of them quite well, i would go as far to say he seemed somewhat casual (casual using 100% power, not casual while suppressed)

[dragon boss z]

Gohan is almost definitely not SSB level, same with 17. It should be fairly obvious by now, especially how 17 was fighting no better than a tired base Goku.

As for the U6 Namekians I would say they are high Buu saga tier. Probably somewhere around ssj3 level. I could see them beating anyone up to Buuhan, but Buuhan and Vegito should be too much for them.

[Bullza]

So if light can't escape Black Holes but Goku's Kamehameha did, then does that mean their attacks are much faster than light!?

I suppose they should be but it's worth noting I suppose.

[SuperDragoon]

Gohan is certainly around SSB level. His fight against SSB Goku and Golden Freeza proved that. And no way in hell is 17 below a tired base Goku. That's directly contradictory to his fight with Goku, as well as Goku believing him to be a dangerous opponent for him and Vegeta.

[namekiansaiyan]

Yay we've reached 1000 pages,keep it up.

How do saonel & pirina stand in comparison to kale & caulifla.

Kale probably has the most power but Saonel and Pirina were still getting used to the fusions and the big advantage they have is their crazy stamina.

I would say right now

1.Kale
2.Saonel, Pirina
3.Caulifla

[dragon boss z]

So if light can't escape Black Holes but Goku's Kamehameha did, then does that mean their attacks are much faster than light!?

I suppose they should be but it's worth noting I suppose.

That's not how it works. Light moves fast, but that doesn't mean it is strong. Goku's power was just too much for it. Though SSB kamehameha should probably be above light speed anyways.

Yay we've reached 1000 pages,keep it up.

How do saonel & pirina stand in comparison to kale & caulifla.

Kale probably has the most power but Saonel and Pirina were still getting used to the fusions and the big advantage they have is their crazy stamina.

I would say right now

1.Kale
2.Saonel, Pirina
3.Caulifla

I agree with this for the most part. Maybe ssj2 Caulifla is on or a bit above the Namekian's level I don't know.

Gohan is certainly around SSB level. His fight against SSB Goku and Golden Freeza proved that. And no way in hell is 17 below a tired base Goku. That's directly contradictory to his fight with Goku, as well as Goku believing him to be a dangerous opponent for him and Vegeta.

Goku was massively holding back on both Gohan and 17. He went Blue against Krillin as well and even said he got carried away. He was screaming and struggling in that clash too... All friendly fights with Goku should be ignored. And against Frieza he only lasted a few seconds, not to mention it was a fake fight.

As for 17 I didn't say he was below tired base Goku, I said he was comparable. Not once has he even showed something remotely close to god level this entire tournament. When he is fighting with 18 he only seems slightly above her and he has only beaten people who base Goku could of beaten as well. And it took a tired SSB to break out of the black hole while 17 and 18 were helpless.

[ZombieVito]

I do wonder how many times weaker is Piccolo from the U6 Namekians. The Makankosappo did beat them and even Saonel commended Piccolo's power.

[The_Destroyer]

This my ranking for Universe 6:

Dr. Rota (with ability)
Hit
Kefla
Kale
Pirina
Saonel
Caulifla
Cabba
Maggeta
Botamo
Dr.Rota(without ability)

Although I think I might put Pilina above Kale but I'm not sure.

[namekiansaiyan]

I do wonder how many times weaker is Piccolo from the U6 Namekians. The Makankosappo did beat them and even Saonel commended Piccolo's power.

Piccolo has power but it is also the attack which would practically blow any fighters head off in the tournament apart from a certain few.

[Hakaishin Liquir]

This my ranking for Universe 6:

Dr. Rota (with ability)
Hit
Kefla
Kale
Pirina
Saonel
Caulifla
Cabba
Maggeta
Botamo
Dr.Rota(without ability)

Although I think I might put Pilina above Kale but I'm not sure.

What about Frost?

[Bullza]

I do wonder how many times weaker is Piccolo from the U6 Namekians. The Makankosappo did beat them and even Saonel commended Piccolo's power.

Well prior to that he hardly even fazed Pirina.

Piccolo looked like he was about on par with Super Saiyan 2 Gohan. Pirina and Saonel more on par with Ultimate Gohan.

How many times stronger is Ultimate Gohan than Super Saiyan Gohan? No idea. Probably over four times though or a Super Saiyan 3 Gohan would be stronger.

[The_Destroyer]

This my ranking for Universe 6:



Although I think I might put Pilina above Kale but I'm not sure.

What about Frost?

Okay I'm an idiot, here's the real one:

Dr. Rota (with ability)
Hit
Kefla
Kale
Pirina
Saonel
Caulifla
Cabba
Frost
Maggeta
Botamo
Dr.Rota(without ability)

[dragon boss z]

This my ranking for Universe 6:

Dr. Rota (with ability)
Hit
Kefla
Kale
Pirina
Saonel
Caulifla
Cabba
Frost
Maggeta
Botamo
Dr.Rota(without ability)

Although I think I might put Pilina above Kale but I'm not sure.

Imo it goes

Kefla (seemed way stronger than Hit tbh)
Hit
Kale
Pirina/Saonel
Caulifla
Cabba
Maggeta (maybe higher but didn't show much)
Frost
Botamo
Dr. Rota (with his ability he would solo tournament though)