Was Freeza all that bad a Ruler?

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 2:05 am

Onikage725 wrote:Evil is a point of view

Maybe so. But, in Dragonball, good and evil seem to be very clear-cut.

FistOfTheSun · Post by **FistOfTheSun** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 2:32 am

Kendamu wrote:
Onikage725 wrote:Evil is a point of view
Maybe so. But, in Dragonball, good and evil seem to be very clear-cut.

Well not really.

Take Freeza for example, I don't really consider him "Evil", yet the general populace would disagree entirely.

Yes, Freeza obliterated an entire race of people out of fear and distrust. But would we act any differently if an egnimatic alien race with superior potential suddenly appeared? Do you think we'll send them flowers or nukes? If you actually have to think about this question, rethink our past...
The Dark Age "witch" burnings... the enslavement of native peoples around the globe... the Holocaust...

All of these acts committed due to fear of the unknown.

And yes Freeza's forces crushes many species into extinction to ensure his own goals come to fruition.
Once again have we not done the same? How many species have we wiped from the face of the planet to make way for our civilisation?

The unknown makes a monster out of man.

Our methods are identical on a singular planetary scale, yet Freeza is "Evil" but somehow people are "Good"?

rereboy · Post by **rereboy** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 4:20 am

Who said that people who did such things were good?

At most they didn`t know any better because they honestly thought they were doing God`s work.

Freeza acts only in his self interests, not in his people or underlings interests, and gets great pleasure from inflicting pain, misery and death to others with his power. We see that when he destroyed Planet Vegeta and killed millions. He was laughing and giggling at the sight of them dying and the planet exploding because of his power.

FistOfTheSun · Post by **FistOfTheSun** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 5:08 am

In his view he was exterminating vermin.

Up in Queensland we have a big Cane Toad problem. Me and my mates used to have big laughs bashing them with Tennis rackets and hockey sticks. Am I evil?

SHINOBI-03 · Post by **SHINOBI-03** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 5:11 am

FistOfTheSun wrote:In his view he was exterminating vermin.

Up in Queensland we have a big Cane Toad problem. Me and my mates used to have big laughs bashing them with Tennis rackets and hockey sticks. Am I evil?

Yes, because that's animal abusing.

EDIT: You live in Queensland, yet... you do these horrible things? Is this what Steve Irwin tought you?!

FistOfTheSun · Post by **FistOfTheSun** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 6:17 am

Fair enough,

Though you should know that their an introduced species that destroy crops and kill anything that eats them, killng rabbits or cane toads up that way is better for the environment.

So essentially we're eliminating a threat and enjoying doing so, which mirrors Freeza's extermination of planet Vegeta.

Oh and Steve Irwin was a toss, please don't bunch us Aussies with that showpony dossbag, he never represented us in any manner or form. Crikey indeed...

rereboy · Post by **rereboy** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:18 am

FistOfTheSun wrote:Fair enough,

Though you should know that their an introduced species that destroy crops and kill anything that eats them, killng rabbits or cane toads up that way is better for the environment.

So essentially we're eliminating a threat and enjoying doing so, which mirrors Freeza's extermination of planet Vegeta.

Oh and Steve Irwin was a toss, please don't bunch us Aussies with that showpony dossbag, he never represented us in any manner or form. Crikey indeed...

Doing something necessary does not include taking pleasure from it.

Thats the same logic that an cop might use for beating up and abusing prisoners, while taking pleasure from it.

A cop that uses necessary force to catch a suspect = everything ok.

A cop that is hard on the suspects because he wants to set them straight and scare them from pursuing a life of crime = well, sometimes a good kick to the butt can prevent a lot of things. This cop might be going out of line, but his motives for doing it are pure

A cop that is hard on suspects and gets pleasure out of it = no matter how he tries to justify it, he`s still a sadist. People are not 100% good or 100% evil. People are grey. However, a person like this, who takes pleasure from hurting, a sadist, has a pretty nasty dark tone.

I won`t put you on the same level because I value people more than animals which just feel and think a small percentage of what we can fell and think... However taking pleasure from hurting animals is never a good sign.
There is a reason why abusing and/or killing animals, especially mammals of decent sizes, is considered to be an important factor to look for when we are looking for psychopaths or sociopaths.

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:32 am

FistOfTheSun wrote:
Kendamu wrote:
Onikage725 wrote:Evil is a point of view
Maybe so. But, in Dragonball, good and evil seem to be very clear-cut.
Well not really.

No, no, no. In Dragonball, good and evil are pretty clear-cut. The good guys go to Heaven. Some keep their bodies as a reward. The bad guys go to Hell and don't get to keep their bodies (except in filler). Freeza was a bad guy. Raditz was a bad guy. Those types of guys went to Hell. Hell is for bad guys. Goku not only got to go to Heaven, but he kept his body and, in filler, he got to go to some sort of Valhalla and train/fight with other courageous and noble dead warriors.

No matter what kind of philosophy you put to it, in Dragon World (the Dragonball universe) good and evil aren't open to interpretation. Only purity of heart is.

FistOfTheSun · Post by **FistOfTheSun** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:40 am

rereboy wrote:
FistOfTheSun wrote:Fair enough,

Though you should know that their an introduced species that destroy crops and kill anything that eats them, killng rabbits or cane toads up that way is better for the environment.

So essentially we're eliminating a threat and enjoying doing so, which mirrors Freeza's extermination of planet Vegeta.

Oh and Steve Irwin was a toss, please don't bunch us Aussies with that showpony dossbag, he never represented us in any manner or form. Crikey indeed...
Doing something necessary does not include taking pleasure from it.

Thats the same logic that an cop might use for beating up and abusing prisoners, while taking pleasure from it.

A cop that uses necessary force to catch a suspect = everything ok.

A cop that is hard on the suspects because he wants to set them straight and scare them from pursuing a life of crime = well, sometimes a good kick to the butt can prevent a lot of things. This cop might be going out of line, but his motives for doing it are pure

A cop that is hard on suspects and gets pleasure out of it = no matter how he tries to justify it, he`s still a sadist. People are not 100% good or 100% evil. People are grey. However, a person like this, who takes pleasure from hurting, a sadist, has a pretty nasty dark tone.

I won`t put you on the same level because I value people more than animals which just feel and think a small percentage of what we can fell and think... However taking pleasure from hurting animals is never a good sign.
There is a reason why abusing and/or killing animals, especially mammals of decent sizes, is considered to be an important factor to look for when we are looking for psychopaths or sociopaths.

Sorry there's been a bit of a misunderstanding.

I don't enjoy killing, but certain circumstances while killing make the experience enjoyable.

Like "Holy Shit the fuckers head exploded!!!" while wacking toads off the property with gold clubs causes laughter amongst participants.

Similar to "Zarbon-san, Dodoria-san look at the pretty fireworks!!!" when a planet explodes.

Edit: Though the philosophy of good and evil is a great discussion topic, I think we're somewhat digressing from the original subject

KillerCory · Post by **KillerCory** » Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:52 am

Blowing up Cargo was about as evil as you can get.

But in terms of being a ruler, Freeza was second to none.

Godo · Post by **Godo** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 4:23 am

Well, if you obeyed and did our job, Freeza was a good ruler in that sense. He treated Dodoria and Zarbon well, until they did a mistake or failed an order.
The same went for the Saiya-jins. But they started to uproar and get too strong to handle, so he blew their planet up.

So, what I'm trying to day is that whilst he was diabolically evil, killing Cargo and conquering planets does NOT influence on his ruling, since he didn't rule over the inhabitants of the planets he conquered. Yet.

Heck, he seemed to be a friend with Ginyu, although Ginyu seemed terrified of him at times.

laserkid · Post by **laserkid** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:51 am

Wow. Just. Wow.

You people actually think Freeza is a good ruler. Even though he's thoroughly evil and ruthless, even to his own people (he will wipe you out just for being the bearer of bad news), but somehow he's still a good leader.

Freeza is wicked, without mercy, without compassion, unreasonable, and despotic. How in the hell does a mind get twisted enough to think that these are good qualities in a leader?

KillerCory · Post by **KillerCory** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:06 am

laserkid wrote:Wow. Just. Wow.

You people actually think Freeza is a good ruler. Even though he's thoroughly evil and ruthless, even to his own people (he will wipe you out just for being the bearer of bad news), but somehow he's still a good leader.

Freeza is wicked, without mercy, without compassion, unreasonable, and despotic. How in the hell does a mind get twisted enough to think that these are good qualities in a leader?

Freeza really didn't lead anyone, he just ordered.

And you can look at "good" in two different ways.

Was Freeza a good ruler in a way that everyone liked him? No, not at all. He ruled with fear.

Freeza was a good ruler because he had many planets under his control as well as a large army.

laserkid · Post by **laserkid** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:07 am

That makes him a successful ruler, not a good one.

KillerCory · Post by **KillerCory** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:10 am

Yeah,

That's a better way to phrase it.

I don't think Freeza was good at all. Just good at what he did.

laserkid · Post by **laserkid** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:16 am

I'm just being a stickler on terms now but yes. Freeza was a sucessful ruler, and skilled tyrant.

But saying someone is a good ruler has connotations of just, wise, compassionate. A good ruler would describe say, King Arthur (side stepping real rulers/leaders since thats a bit more subjective).

A-dono · Post by **A-dono** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 11:56 am

Yeah, you could say that the BTK killer was 'good' at killing and torturing people but that doesn't mean he was a good person.

Freeza was great at brutally exterminating sentient races in order to sell their land to the highest bidder, and he was fairly proficient at instilling fear into those beneath him, but he was the farthest thing from being a benevolent ruler.

Godo · Post by **Godo** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 4:37 pm

Well, in the eyes of his family, he was probably a good ruler, not just a successful one. They had a twisted way of thinking. If you work for their good, you are good, and being justful is to let people live, as long as they do their duties.

mAcChaos · Post by **mAcChaos** » Wed Aug 19, 2009 5:00 pm

There's a pretty big difference between toads and other sentient races.

Kroni_Hunter · Post by **Kroni_Hunter** » Thu Aug 20, 2009 7:28 am

laserkid wrote:Yes, Freeza is a great ruler. Because great rulers commit genocide on a daily basis to sell land to others to make a profit. Such a wonderful person.

And so American too, man I remember the profits from when the USA wiped out Germany. Damn the USA made so much money from fighting them, and didn't at all give money up to help rebuild post war. The USA also didn't forgive war debts, no we just wiped it out and sold it for profit. That why we are so not in debt... and if you can't tell... I'm being sarcastic.

Gee, guess we were being bullies to poor little Hitler.